SageTree

"Liberation is only being rid of the idea that there is anyone who needs liberation." - Ramesh Balsekar

I would like to hear you alls take on this quote. I get daily quotes from various religons or teachers and this was today's 'Hindu Wisdom'.

This is taken to mean that we don't exist as an 'I' but rather our perception or mind is what creates the continuity of a self.

The body is a constant rearranging and working of compounded cells, which are made of tinier elemental matter. The mind is observing through the 4 elements in other words and we only attach or build personality based on sensation and stimuli. That is, No inherent 'I' exists, but a changing object with a sense of self. Like a movie ,that isn't one thing, but rather a sequence of small pictures being played very fast, so we are moving so fast we don't sense the moments between this second and that or the rising and falling of all things which is also includes 'I'

To my understanding this quote speaks to seeing that we create the 'I' and observe things personally, rather than impersonally. Which creates likes and dislikes, predispositions. For instance, one is a friend today, and then next instance that friend has become our enemy, because of an offense. If we never try to talk to that person again we may not be able to see first hand that change occures, perhaps this person pleases or appeases our sense of self again and we forget that we were ever mad? Life happening and moving like a bubble in a stream or cloud passing in the sky. Our mind arises again and again with new forms to observe.

Entering with equanimity begins to disolve this 'Self' of 'I' like this and don't like that, with many things in life. The long this practice is maintained to close we come to a true sense of being a thing that can rationalize and feel more connected to all matter rather than feeling indifferent. Past the Self realization is the realization of Selflessness, and to me this is the highest state of experience, this is the 'liberation' to me in the context of this quote.

What do you think ?

__________________

420smokeman

"Past the Self realization is the realization of Selflessness"

same thing ..

yup "i" agree, because there is no personal I to be enlightend or obtaine liberation.. liberation is giving that little concept that you have of youself (ego) up to who you really are..... still the mind and empty it completly the "I" can surrender to the allmighty one! AKA yourself, reality, the absolutly nothing that contains absolutly everything ahahah, and you will relize everything is inside and you are the space that contains existance itself.. god if you wana call it... AHAHAHAH

__________________
cause there aint nothing else to do and any where i go i know im you and i keep coming back forward through to myself

msicidron

i agree whole-heartedly with you sage

maybe ill have time to post later

__________________

verklingen

liberation from what? this quote pinpoints the problem our ego faces as our psychology and sociology matures. the ego is a truly wonderful defense mechanism. it ensures, if nothing else, a dramatic fight for survival when the shit hits the fan. the problem i see is that such display is almost never truly warranted as our survival is almost never truly threatened. what gets us is that our ego has moulded our sense of self and our sense of survival together, or in other words created a lazy mind where the same pathways which enact a sense of threat are utilized similarly for a wide range of inputs, from having a knife pointed at you to your pants falling down. get cut off on the highway, have your girlfriend dump you: our ego is a process of the brain, and our brain is trained to induce the same threatened reaction in every case because survival was that important. all these things engage your every faculty in the fight for survival, the fight for "i." anger, resentment, rage, annoyance. . . you know the cues. all the things that can only make situations worse, because the situations they're needed for are what civilization's around for; to prevent it. survival is an antiquated concept in a shrinking world, where the neighbors on whom we all mutually depend are as likely to be down the road as across the globe. you could even say survival has become suicide!

so anyway, to the quote. the sense of someone needing liberation is your basic ego satisfaction. not only are you sure of your survivability, but you're extremely gratified by the potential of being able to increase the survivability of others. judgments, self-aggrandizing pity. . . it's easy to see how any sense of liberation falls apart in this way. though i must say, this might be the hardest piece of baggage to shed completely.

__________________

“Be kind, for everyone you meet is fighting a hard battle.”

Scion

but to really nail this, we have to shut up completely!

SageTree

Just using our skillfull means to relate, but we should always keep that fact in mind that we are speaking in concepts

__________________

kitch

you have to be careful with the word 'I' because to me it has 2 different meanings. There is the 'I' (brahma, the holy ghost) that is timeless in each of us, and then there is the 'I' we construct to be our personality, mostly as a defense mechanism.

__________________