Waves

Biophilia hypothesis - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Basically the idea is that evolution has formed us to appreciate and excel in nature.

this sort of works hand in hand with this concept:

Gaia philosophy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

what do you guys think about the role of nature in humanity? why do people on drugs go to nature? why do we hold certain spots sacred? Why do we consider nature as something separate from ourselves?

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On this life that we call home
The years go fast and the days go so slow

Mydriasis

I believe that the role of human existence is to simply love, appreciate and take care of other life forms. I mean think about the advantages we have other them[other life forms]. Apossable thumbs, conscioussness, logic, the ability to identify seperations .But some how "society"(uh oh I'm going hippy on you guys) has it all backwards. Instead we're manifesting and harvesting as much as we can only for ourselves[our species], and sometimes only for ourselves as an individual[greedy solipsistic folk].

I also believe in the stoned ape theory, so I believe without entheogens we can not evolve as a species. Entheogens first teachings is to heal, respect, and love. If your taking a drug that isn't an entheogen in my mind your taking poison, and you don't wish the best for yourself or other things around you.

When I first pictured this I was under the spell of a substance, and the first image I had was myself kneeling down and praying and worshiping some weird plant. Just a weird side-bar. Cool to know someone else out there had/has the same idea, so I'm not alone in this world of pollution, and mechanical pain.



edit- also,
Bio - life, Phil - Love maybe latin class did pay off haha

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SageTree

I don't think humans and nature are seperate. I can see where there has became a rift perhaps, but we all still eat from the earth and are effected by weather. It's an ignornace to think we are in control of nature, and I really don't know how people loose sight of that....We certainly have our effect on it, but it often seems to come back and create more stress....

So not to pug my own threads here, but I wrote about this a while ago on here and will repost the link as I feel it really answers your questions you asked, but certainly I don't mean that to say they are THE answer, just mine.

This passage really got me thinking, thanks for reading

Thursday October 16 2008

“Man is engrossed in shaping the world, rather than being shaped by it.” – Loren Eisley


My first thought is, it is obvious we are shaping the earth, even if infinitely impermanent, but certainly in the present. My second thought is why aren’t we being shaped still? Even if a lot of our “progress” is getting ourselves out of our messes, it’s a mess no less entwined with mother nature, which has been found, after study , to reverse some of our changes we’ve caused. Perhaps floods, hurricanes, wildfires, being, on one hand “natural”, have occurred more so because of the changes we have caused, and the only natural part being the disrupted forces. On the other hand, maybe those disruptions are Mother Nature trying to wipe out the scourge and reset the balance. And that our “progress” is only fighting the inevitable, and in course hurling the forces into turmoil, thus letting us live out our karma, until it’s appearably altered state destroys us, or perhaps allows us to evolve into a more balance species, one harmonious with the Great Mother,” homo-non-parasitious”.

Understanding how and why in itself isn’t inherently evil and without warrant. However, understanding doesn’t always serve our base human needs to forage for food and obtain safe shelter. Dare I say, this manipulation through understanding, might itself be our natural order. Although understanding for greed and gross manipulation is what has brought us to the place of distortion and imbalance. Knowing why medicine works or coal burns isn’t necessary. If the coal was used sparingly as it rose to the earth’s surface would we need to understand what it does to our atmosphere? Nor would we need to study the adverse side effects of the chemical version of an isolated alkali from a plant had we just used the natural plant in the first place. Why study them? Had we stayed on our simple course we would need to “invent” and patent medicines with side effects such as lymphoma, seizures or nausea. Shamans can pick plants for benefit without the aid of modern scientific tools, how? On top of that these medicines won’t cause other disease and conditions that require MORE medicines with more side effects.

It seems to me that all of the other creatures on this earth bow to the changing forces, perfectly, without pride. I doubt that they “know”, I rather feel that they are merely SOULY engrossed in the process of living and not even considering the way the wheel turns and if they could somehow make the wheel turn better or only to serve the purposes of selfish greed. Their violence is for food or mating. And their hording is to carry their genes forward, needs in accordance with the laws. Their wanderings aren’t for pride or to control others. Pride certainly isn’t the feeling that I get from the pine or the cone. Animals do seem to experience the emotion of loss. Perhaps this loss is only gathered around the fact that something has changed and that there will need to be a new method for the survival of the heard or pack. Maybe it’s just the void of lost energy that they can no longer sense. Ultimately, nothing can be done to turn back the wheel of death, and they accept this as part and parcel of living.

Muktab, it is written. If we could somehow see the way atoms would gravitate into place over the eons, we too would understand that Muktab is true, and things come in their own time as Solomon says. A particle of snow is bound to wind up on a certain area of an avalanche coming down the snowy peaks. The mystery unfathomable is why the snow flake transpired and fell from high, to that exact spot. Does the actual snow flake understand my metaphor and does it even care to ponder it. The speck is here, now, what difference does it make what its place in line it is written to be swept away? Its individual beauty may never be seen, yet it still lawfully falls from the sky.

Saying this, I too must be open to the possibility that the world is, insane as it sounds, on track with its destiny. This time, however, we are seemingly our own comet of destruction. Does the bull frog ponder how hard life is in the shrinking wet lands? Apperably, it continues to feed and shelter itself with what is left, until it adapts, miraculously or is annihilated. Accepting that it’s out of its control, submitting to the rebirth in a niche’ with ample space for all the reborn frogs.

This doesn’t mean it’s not ‘my duty to be responsible for the slowing down or attempting to change the proverbial course of the comet, which may well be humans. Nor does this prospect make me want to stop aiding my fellow beings wants to eat regularly and sleep safely in this changing eco-system of society. The holy society of the wilds holds many lessons for the humble bowing to the forces. When and why the wheel is turned, we’ll not know until we still ourselves in the present and use our intellectual adaptations to walk in the path of those wheels of the universal vehicle, and not to build and drive a better vehicle. In the end our earthly fuel will run empty. We must fill our lives with spiritual cells for power instead. For present human life it seems less about evoltiution physically and more of using all our senses to guide our choices in engaging the universe. A re-awaking evolving our more primal self and blending it with intellect for meeting our true needs to be fed, sheltered, clothed, to have useful activity, self worth, love, to be heard, maybe even understood, to embrace all lives as our own to be part of something in simple words. Of which are all things perceivable and mysteries hidden and unfolding.

“Genius in the porpoise? Has the porpoise ever written a book or spoken a speech....NO! His genius is not declared in his doing nothing to prove it. It is declared in his pyramidical silence.” – Herman Melville.

Thanks if you took the time to read that......

And thanks for letting me share.
Sage

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verklingen

i don't think of it in terms of nature having a role in humanity or humanity having a role in nature, it's more like nature and humanity share a combined role ya know? it's like nature is "built" -- either by some conscious intelligence or by the infinite nature of existence itself -- to evolve new systems which manifest abilities that seem dream-like. life is just the skin of this evolution. . . the result of cosmic matter from distant cataclysms settling down and being left peaceful enough to enter the refined, exotic conditions which begot it. i believe civilization is the uppermost bud burgeoning atop the earth's fertile ground, and humanity is her tool for cultivating it.

if you don't believe we can evolve or that civilization can work, please remember that birthing pains can be as uncomfortable for the mother as the child. but it gets better once it's through

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“Be kind, for everyone you meet is fighting a hard battle.”

The Rev

The human mind is just a window. Nothing more.



The Rev

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hijabihippie

I don't neccessarily agree with the Amish in terms of religious beliefs, but as far as living in harmony with the Earth, they are dead-on right, in my view.

SageTree

I lived in Lancaster County PA for 5 years and worked with the Amish personally and in the greenhouse setting. Annie told me to not idolize the Amish because they are just people as well and there are many with less regaurd for the Earth than some 'English'. Coming from her that really meant something, she was a truely happy person, and an inspiration to be around.

I do however think they are what they say they are, and don't pull any(many) tricks. They are the most Christian of the Christians I know, generlly speaking.

Do you remember that school shooting in the Amish school? My friends at the greenhouse lost 2 nieces that day. But ALL the families came together to help the wife and children of the man who killed the girls and then himself. They forgave him, wept for HIS suffering that lead him to this. In the community if someone does something they accept that the community has influence as well with that person and helps create them

My point is that story of forgiveness was amazing and should be sung from the mountain tops.

How much different would 9-11 have been if there was just forgiveness and not counter attack.....but I guess that would be living up to the Christian Values, everyone started proclaiming

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flappy

Another interesting point about the Amish. They never had a case of autism in their community and diabetes is almost unheard of. Might the absence of corporate drugs and a toxic-free food supply be the answer? Do a bowl and contemplate, or hire a psychologist to tell you how to think about this.

SageTree

Yea....but you can tell when the gene pool got alittle shallow. I'll say that much....

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flappy

"How much different would 9-11 have been if there was just forgiveness and not counter attack.....but I guess that would be living up to the Christian Values, everyone started proclaiming ."

Great point, Sageman. I'm not putting down Christians (I have been befriended by a few), but I'll never understand how they will tear a whole society apart over some poor soul wanting to terminate her pregnancy, but killing a million Iraqis, well that's OK.

SageTree

Irony and paradox.

Paradox in itself isn't bad, as it leaves room for mystery....Irony seems to have a painful edge on it.

There are cetainly MANY good religious folks from all walks, maybe more than the 'media nuts bars'.....so it's always good to look for people living what they speak, trying to, or atleast nowing that religion is a practice, not something you can buy and set on the shelf.

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al-Mu'akhkhir

or would it? "an eye for an eye"

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verklingen

naw jesus said that aint cool

speaking of jesus i consider him and other teachers who preach love, appreciation and acceptance as something of a social genetic instruction indicating what direction our evolution ought to take. we already had civilization, but they taught/showed us how to conduct ourselves within it civilly; how to perfect it and create an enjoyable life experience for those who would take part.

i think we're finally starting to come around

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“Be kind, for everyone you meet is fighting a hard battle.”

flappy

Christian, Jew, Muslim, shaman, Zoroastrian, stone, ground, mountain, river, each has a secret way of being with the mystery, unique and not to be judged.
Jalal al-Din Muhammad quote.

Jesus, Mohammad, Buddha, and most spiritual leaders throughout time have said 'you reap what you sow or there is a cause for every action. The bros and dudes even talk about karma. The intellectual elite will deny it.

verklingen

karma is more than action/reaction, it sets up expectations/fears which may be prove damaging to a person's growth in spirit. i'd say it's an outdated mechanism that's outlived its usefulness. in truth each moment is its own aspect of all-that-is, complete in and of itself yet intrinsically bound to all the other infinite aspects by which its existence is supported. a human consciousness connects the dots to create experience, and karma is only one method of doing so.

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“Be kind, for everyone you meet is fighting a hard battle.”

SageTree

Eye for an eye is old testament.

Turn the other cheek is Gospel.....you can call that christianity or reformed Judaism. And we can certainly pick apart any book or philosphy to suit our theory, as you and I have both done.

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Waves

you forgot the "leaves the whole world blind" part

good responses everyone, im going to get a bit more into it when i have the time but i like the concepts that are being flung around.

__________________
On this life that we call home
The years go fast and the days go so slow

flappy

Expectatations and fears are your choice, an emotional and polarising agent; however they are there for a reason. If we did not fear the rattlesnake, we'd get bitten for sure.
We can philosophise about karma forever. It will always be there in physics and to show us there are consequences to our actions. Yes, there are those in the Luciferian community that say you can do what you want and make your own rules, without fearing consequence.
I agree with you that karma creates experience and we need experiences to learn; not "damaging to a person's growth in spirit" I think.

verklingen

karma is like any belief; a mere permission slip granting access to reality along a certain set of parameters. yes i understand there are analogues in physics and that the nature of reality is self-similar and fractal-like, and that therefor experience "should" follow a similar pattern. but it's not about breaking any rules, it's just getting smart about how you approach things. . . how you use your experiences, rather than continuing to allow them to use you. it's not just karma that limits this endeavor, any system of belief which requires you to yearn for something or some state that, at this moment, lies beyond your grasp will continually ensure that what you seek remains just that: beyond your grasp.

this has fuck all to do with your thread waves but here's a bashar video that covers this pretty well, i think:

http://www.youtube.com/v/G9lE0S6ToZA

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“Be kind, for everyone you meet is fighting a hard battle.”

Nug_King

About the origional post, I follow the same idea generally. We are emotionally connected to nature because it was evolutionary benefical to do so. Having an interest and reverance for the world around us allowed us to observe all of creation, and to use its soultions to problems as our own. We saw animals living off fruit from trees and other plants and began to use and nurture them as our own. We saw the seasons come and go with a predactable rythem and made our own interpretations (early religions) and calenders. We saw caves sheltered us from the weather and made our own.

While it is easy to read further than a biological cause for our interest in things natural, I don't find it at all nessicary.

Even Karma can be looked at as an evolutionary Meme (or Teme?) that helps to keep us from self destructing. Real or not it has a tangebale effect on those who follow it.

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