let us discuss christianity - Page 2

yo. · 10-16-2009, 12:37 PM

Definitions of religion on the Web:

* a strong belief in a supernatural power or powers that control human destiny
* an institution to express belief in a divine power

science has nothing to do with religion.... and doesn't express itself in institutions as divine.

**SageTree** · 10-16-2009, 12:40 PM

In my mind the reason science somewhat falls into belief category, its the idea that we are able to perceive all the variables. What if there is a who plane of consideration we are missing that could solve problems?

In some culture's 'science' there is a level on which people's way of knowing is based on things western science can't figure out. Like abilities to know which plants to use for certain problems and other unexplained things that seem odd to those who don't process that level of experiencing. 6 senses are odd to these people.

How does that fit into what you are talking about? These are just my thoughts on science and how it too should be taken as our up to date knowing of ourselves, and not fact through and through. Moses thought he knew how the world was created so he wrote about it....things have changed in human ways of knowing for better and worse. The balance and open heart hopefully will prevail and there can be a vague marriage of the two. As modern western science has proven things people in other parts of the world have known for centuries. Buddha's talks about 'indra's net' and all life reflecting itself is very Quantum sounding in relation to matter,if you ask me.

verklingen · 10-16-2009, 12:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kiLLeRrrr

Definitions of religion on the Web:

* a strong belief in a supernatural power or powers that control human destiny
* an institution to express belief in a divine power

science has nothing to do with religion.... and doesn't express itself in institutions as divine.

it's just semantics man. the brass tacks of it is that our belief systems play a crucial role in how we see the world, and that vision may be vastly different from what another sees while not being any more or less "true," which is to say "valid." i use belief systems to include everything from religion to science to conspiracy theories.

**SageTree** · 10-16-2009, 12:56 PM

conceptual reality: we need to talk about things.

But a tree isn't a tree. It's a million parts of a million different elements.

ultimate reality: all compound matter breaks down. Including labels that only exists in relation to other things.

Nothing is Big by inherently, something has to be small for big to exist.

"Form is emptiness and emptiness is form"-Nagarjuna

They need each other and have a very real function in life, but we must remain mindful of what we are really doing when we are using words to describe experience. Relating.

yo. · 10-16-2009, 12:59 PM

^^i see what your saying verk, i guess that's jut my opinion.

Sage, you are just full of wisdom. may i ask your age?
also that's a good what if..
but i believe that science will answer all things, sooner or later, if later isn't too late.

have you guys ever heard of this professor who's came up with this mathematical equation that accurately predicts future events?

verklingen · 10-16-2009, 01:00 PM

do you mean terrance mckenna's timewave zero theory?

**SageTree** · 10-16-2009, 01:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by verklingen

do you mean terrance mckenna's timewave zero theory?

Tons of stuff on this guy to search on the forums.

That is flattering killerrr, but people talk a lot

keep your eye on us and consider it for yourself.

28 on Dec 3rd,
SageTree

yo. · 10-16-2009, 01:15 PM

younger than i would've guessed.

oh and yeah the mckenna guy

JcP · 10-16-2009, 01:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SageTree

In my mind the reason science somewhat falls into belief category, its the idea that we are able to perceive all the variables. What if there is a who plane of consideration we are missing that could solve problems?.

I've been on the "science is a religion too!" wagon for years now and SageTree, you just said i as concisely and simply as I've heard.

Fuckin A man. Right on.

JcP · 10-16-2009, 01:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kiLLeRrrr

Definitions of religion on the Web:

* a strong belief in a supernatural power or powers that control human destiny
* an institution to express belief in a divine power

science has nothing to do with religion.... and doesn't express itself in institutions as divine.

couple things:

re⋅li⋅gion /rɪˈlɪdʒən/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [ri-lij-uhn] Show IPA
Use religion in a Sentence
See web results for religion
See images of religion
–noun 1. a set of beliefs concerning the cause, nature, and purpose of the universe, esp. when considered as the creation of a superhuman agency or agencies, usually involving devotional and ritual observances, and often containing a moral code governing the conduct of human affairs.
2. a specific fundamental set of beliefs and practices generally agreed upon by a number of persons or sects: the Christian religion; the Buddhist religion.
3. the body of persons adhering to a particular set of beliefs and practices: a world council of religions.
4. the life or state of a monk, nun, etc.: to enter religion.
5. the practice of religious beliefs; ritual observance of faith.
6. something one believes in and follows devotedly; a point or matter of ethics or conscience: to make a religion of fighting prejudice.

Supernatural entities are not required for a religion to be a religion. Buddhism, for example, has no "God," merely the concept of enlightenment to strive to. So while I can't argue your source, I can argue its definition, as I find it extremely limiting (and not really accurate, either).

In terms of Science, divinity is a rough topic since there is no external God to...oh wait, yes there is! In Science, the infinite universe IS their God. And the divine acts of science (as opposed to the miracles of Christianity) are the unexplained phenomena the universe holds...dark matter, why the "big bang" went bang, what the universe is expanding into, etc.

BTW Terrence McKenna used psychadelic substances to get in touch with LOGOS when he was younger, was heavily vested in the I-Ching, etc.
So while he might not have been Christian, I would argue he was extremely religious.

Lastly, as Verk said, this is semantics now, but I made a mistake earlier. Instead of propagating the word "religion" I should have changed it to "spirituality."
Semantics, but RELIGION, to me, implies man's attempt at explaining the unexplainable to others, while spirituality implies man's understanding of the unexplainable within himself.
Religions are flawed edifices constructed around a concept of truth that resonated with them. Spirituality is the expression of that truth within someone.
You can be against religion and be deeply spiritual...I sort of am in a way.

Sugar420 · 10-16-2009, 02:04 PM

im sure i have read this thread at least a hundred times before, except the names and dates were different. why does this conversation keep happening over and over?

**SageTree** · 10-16-2009, 02:25 PM

For the same reason as the Bible and theology have been talked about for centuries.

New people enter the conversation and start 'new' ones, rather than rehashing 'old' threads, or caring to look them up.

For the same reason Buddha spoke about phenomenology in 2500 bce and some fat white guy 'discovered' it in the late 1800's.

As my 93 year old friend Milos says,'Benny, my young friend, there is nothing new under the sun.'

This first struck me as hopeless and negative, but the more I thought about it, it is true in many many ways, and positively speaking, everything we'll ever find that hasn't been brought to light,is already here to.

"We can walk over treasure for a thousand years and it's only inches below our feet." -Yogananda ( and probably a million other people )

I hear where you are coming from Veda, but haven't we all read things again and again, and maybe just maybe found something new in the words, or within ourselves. A new thought to bring forth our expressions of understanding?

Blah....I've said that before

Or someone has

supramundane

Sage

verklingen · 10-16-2009, 02:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Terry

Science uses reason and logic, religion is a fairy tale that is completely improvable by science, they are not symbiotic in the least.

both represent two facets of our distinct human condition. without a methodology like science we lose our industriousness. without the creativity and imagination that yields things like spirituality, fairy tales and other emotive concepts we lose the spirit behind our industriousness. the former is like the body of humanity, and the latter its consciousness or soul. without either we cease to be what we are

imo of course

JcP · 10-16-2009, 03:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by v3d4

im sure i have read this thread at least a hundred times before, except the names and dates were different. why does this conversation keep happening over and over?

its just backlash against fundamentalism. Throwing the baby out with the bathwater. And while I don't buy into it, I understand the emotion behind the "fuck religion" and "Christianity doesn't make sense because..." arguments.

yo. · 10-16-2009, 04:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by v3d4

im sure i have read this thread at least a hundred times before, except the names and dates were different. why does this conversation keep happening over and over?

new people, obviously.

The Rev · 10-16-2009, 05:40 PM

You have to admit, Jesus is totally better looking than Buddha. Of course Krishna is the hottest of them all; his blueness makes other dieties green with envy.

the Rev

**SageTree** · 10-16-2009, 06:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Rev

You have to admit, Jesus is totally better looking than Buddha. Of course Krishna is the hottest of them all; his blueness makes other dieties green with envy.

the Rev

Poor Tara, she was already green.....with Compassion, which is what her extended foot is to represent.

JcP · 10-16-2009, 07:16 PM

Buddha's grin > Jesus.

Plus, Buddha chilled the fuck out, while Jesus walked around all the time. Jesus' feet must have stank something aweful!

in all seriousness tho, I think anyone that enlightened would have me on my back so fast! lol, wisdom makes me horny.

**SageTree** · 10-16-2009, 07:30 PM

oh jcp

Like the way you think

Mydriasis · 10-16-2009, 07:57 PM

Shiva was all bluee! and loves the weed too.

sorry to get off topic haha

10-16-2009, 12:37 PM	#21 (permalink)
yo. Controversial Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: SOCAL Posts: 1,160 Thanks: 676 Thanked 202 Times in 143 Posts	Definitions of religion on the Web: * a strong belief in a supernatural power or powers that control human destiny * an institution to express belief in a divine power science has nothing to do with religion.... and doesn't express itself in institutions as divine. __________________ "God" is an alien and we all came from another galaxy as an expansion of our specie's existence.

10-16-2009, 12:40 PM	#22 (permalink)
SageTree ~Kalyāṇa-mitrā~ Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: In Love Posts: 23,414 Blog Entries: 26 Thanks: 13,070 Thanked 6,767 Times in 4,664 Posts	In my mind the reason science somewhat falls into belief category, its the idea that we are able to perceive all the variables. What if there is a who plane of consideration we are missing that could solve problems? In some culture's 'science' there is a level on which people's way of knowing is based on things western science can't figure out. Like abilities to know which plants to use for certain problems and other unexplained things that seem odd to those who don't process that level of experiencing. 6 senses are odd to these people. How does that fit into what you are talking about? These are just my thoughts on science and how it too should be taken as our up to date knowing of ourselves, and not fact through and through. Moses thought he knew how the world was created so he wrote about it....things have changed in human ways of knowing for better and worse. The balance and open heart hopefully will prevail and there can be a vague marriage of the two. As modern western science has proven things people in other parts of the world have known for centuries. Buddha's talks about 'indra's net' and all life reflecting itself is very Quantum sounding in relation to matter,if you ask me. __________________ "What's oppressive is letting your life be confined by old definitions of what everything is." -Zen Meister my_scatterheart YaHooka is.... Cannabis lovers from around the world pulling up a comfy chair, picking up a vaporizer, a bong, a brownie, a pipe, or a joint, getting high, stoned, buzzed or healthy. Uniting our minds in conversation...While Portraying a Positive Image of marijuana and marijuana users to the world. Treat your fellow YaHookans with kindness,respect and tolerance.

10-16-2009, 12:56 PM	#24 (permalink)
SageTree ~Kalyāṇa-mitrā~ Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: In Love Posts: 23,414 Blog Entries: 26 Thanks: 13,070 Thanked 6,767 Times in 4,664 Posts	conceptual reality: we need to talk about things. But a tree isn't a tree. It's a million parts of a million different elements. ultimate reality: all compound matter breaks down. Including labels that only exists in relation to other things. Nothing is Big by inherently, something has to be small for big to exist. "Form is emptiness and emptiness is form"-Nagarjuna They need each other and have a very real function in life, but we must remain mindful of what we are really doing when we are using words to describe experience. Relating. __________________ "What's oppressive is letting your life be confined by old definitions of what everything is." -Zen Meister my_scatterheart YaHooka is.... Cannabis lovers from around the world pulling up a comfy chair, picking up a vaporizer, a bong, a brownie, a pipe, or a joint, getting high, stoned, buzzed or healthy. Uniting our minds in conversation...While Portraying a Positive Image of marijuana and marijuana users to the world. Treat your fellow YaHookans with kindness,respect and tolerance.

10-16-2009, 12:59 PM	#25 (permalink)
yo. Controversial Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: SOCAL Posts: 1,160 Thanks: 676 Thanked 202 Times in 143 Posts	^^i see what your saying verk, i guess that's jut my opinion. Sage, you are just full of wisdom. may i ask your age? also that's a good what if.. but i believe that science will answer all things, sooner or later, if later isn't too late. have you guys ever heard of this professor who's came up with this mathematical equation that accurately predicts future events? __________________ "God" is an alien and we all came from another galaxy as an expansion of our specie's existence.

10-16-2009, 01:00 PM	#26 (permalink)
verklingen Radical Dreamer Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: texas Posts: 8,005 Thanks: 811 Thanked 1,491 Times in 946 Posts	do you mean terrance mckenna's timewave zero theory? __________________ “Be kind, for everyone you meet is fighting a hard battle.” rip matt

10-16-2009, 01:15 PM	#28 (permalink)
yo. Controversial Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: SOCAL Posts: 1,160 Thanks: 676 Thanked 202 Times in 143 Posts	younger than i would've guessed. oh and yeah the mckenna guy __________________ "God" is an alien and we all came from another galaxy as an expansion of our specie's existence.

10-16-2009, 02:04 PM	#31 (permalink)
Sugar420 Freedom Bird Join Date: Mar 2002 Posts: 6,132 Thanks: 39 Thanked 176 Times in 728 Posts	im sure i have read this thread at least a hundred times before, except the names and dates were different. why does this conversation keep happening over and over?

10-16-2009, 02:25 PM	#32 (permalink)
SageTree ~Kalyāṇa-mitrā~ Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: In Love Posts: 23,414 Blog Entries: 26 Thanks: 13,070 Thanked 6,767 Times in 4,664 Posts	For the same reason as the Bible and theology have been talked about for centuries. New people enter the conversation and start 'new' ones, rather than rehashing 'old' threads, or caring to look them up. For the same reason Buddha spoke about phenomenology in 2500 bce and some fat white guy 'discovered' it in the late 1800's. As my 93 year old friend Milos says,'Benny, my young friend, there is nothing new under the sun.' This first struck me as hopeless and negative, but the more I thought about it, it is true in many many ways, and positively speaking, everything we'll ever find that hasn't been brought to light,is already here to. "We can walk over treasure for a thousand years and it's only inches below our feet." -Yogananda ( and probably a million other people ) I hear where you are coming from Veda, but haven't we all read things again and again, and maybe just maybe found something new in the words, or within ourselves. A new thought to bring forth our expressions of understanding? Blah....I've said that before Or someone has supramundane Sage __________________ "What's oppressive is letting your life be confined by old definitions of what everything is." -Zen Meister my_scatterheart YaHooka is.... Cannabis lovers from around the world pulling up a comfy chair, picking up a vaporizer, a bong, a brownie, a pipe, or a joint, getting high, stoned, buzzed or healthy. Uniting our minds in conversation...While Portraying a Positive Image of marijuana and marijuana users to the world. Treat your fellow YaHookans with kindness,respect and tolerance.

10-16-2009, 05:40 PM	#36 (permalink)
The Rev Clear Light Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: In my head, somewhere. Posts: 17,860 Thanks: 5,012 Thanked 5,416 Times in 2,862 Posts	You have to admit, Jesus is totally better looking than Buddha. Of course Krishna is the hottest of them all; his blueness makes other dieties green with envy. the Rev __________________ Budforce - My Friend August 29, 1973- May 25, 2012

10-16-2009, 07:30 PM	#39 (permalink)
SageTree ~Kalyāṇa-mitrā~ Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: In Love Posts: 23,414 Blog Entries: 26 Thanks: 13,070 Thanked 6,767 Times in 4,664 Posts	oh jcp Like the way you think __________________ "What's oppressive is letting your life be confined by old definitions of what everything is." -Zen Meister my_scatterheart YaHooka is.... Cannabis lovers from around the world pulling up a comfy chair, picking up a vaporizer, a bong, a brownie, a pipe, or a joint, getting high, stoned, buzzed or healthy. Uniting our minds in conversation...While Portraying a Positive Image of marijuana and marijuana users to the world. Treat your fellow YaHookans with kindness,respect and tolerance.

10-16-2009, 07:57 PM	#40 (permalink)
Mydriasis Do Not Resuscitate Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 1,293 Thanks: 840 Thanked 431 Times in 298 Posts	Shiva was all bluee! and loves the weed too. sorry to get off topic haha __________________ ۞

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