scottishbastard

Throughout my life I've seen/experienced a decent amount of tragedy and chaos. I watched my grandma die of lung cancer when I was 4-6, my dad was an alcoholic who couldnt keep a job, I was nerdy and fat as a kid so I got picked on a lot, several friends that I grew up with died, I got raided by the dea when I was 17 which fucked up my family financially, my dad died two years after that, I got hooked on opiates from 17-22, my girlfriend almost died towards the end of my addiction etc.
On top of that shit I've been dealing with mental illness and severe insomnia/anxiety for most of my life (most notably since I was 16).

I got interested in Zen and meditation when I was about 16 and since then have expanded my spiritual curiosity to everything from pantheism to judeo-christianity etc. Other things like quantum mechanics, jungian/freudian psychology etc. have influenced me as well.

I've found that recently when bad things happen (i.e. A friend go's to the hospital, someone dies, I misplace a large amount of money) I don't really care too much. I left an apartment full of my possessions in LA a few months back and dont trip too much about the shit I dont have anymore.

In so many ways I am happier than I've ever been...Or I guess a better word for it would be that I'm more at peace with life than I've ever been. I'm still very anxious and get quite depressed/angry sometimes. But compared to how I was 10 years ago, I feel much better.

Now here's the problem. Recently my friends and girlfriend seem to be kind of upset with me. They all say I dont really care about whats going on and it seems like some of them are just about fed up. When something breaks, or something go's wrong I just kind of laugh, because it's all very comical to me. I dont take very many things seriously.

Things like money and sex just dont mean much to me anymore. I feel that I've accidentally slipped into the whole zen mentality. I've disconnected from my need for acception, love, money, sex etc. and it's hard to make myself want any of them.

On one hand I may lose everyone I care about, but I'm afraid that trying to reverse this will bring me back into a place where all I care about is materials, money, sex, human acception etc. And I know I wasnt happy like this.

What is your input on this? It's really starting to bubble up to the surface now, affecting my life and whatnot. Is there such thing as being too centered? Is it more valuable to have people and not have mental/spiritual peace, or to lose everyone and be content?

Thanks dudes.

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Yeah but you're going to do what you wanna do
No matter what I ask of you
You think you hold the high hand
I've got my doubts
I come from Chino where the asphalt sprouts
.....

And even if I have to go to Claremont
Well I guess I'll just have to go to Claremont
Let me go
Let me lie low

Yeah but you're going to do what you wanna do
No matter what I ask of you
And you send your dark messengers to tempt me
I come from Chino so all your threats are empty

- the mountain goats

Ego Tripping

I have to say it sounds like your indifference and apathy might be a coverup or a way to avoid feeling your emotions, perhaps something you haven't fully worked through in the past and at some point decided it was easier to just detach from it then to face it, feel it and resolve it. There's nothing wrong with being centered nor is there anything wrong with feeling strong emotions. I'd say the true 'zen' way of living is being perfectly non-attached to attachment. Enjoying life for the fullest of it's riches in terms of emotions and possessions, but also accepting their lack and being able to remain centered in the face of calamity.

What is really sounds like your friends and girlfriend are upset about is your detachment to your own plights has also made you lose compassion for others' plights...and that compassion is essential to most relationships.

Just remember, you can care about money/sex/material things and still be perfectly 'zen'. I do not feel we came into a physical world merely to be tested so we could abandon it. I feel we came here to embrace the physical and all that entails, all the while balancing ourselves between an intense spiritual connection, to where we reside in the middle somewhere, between heaven and earth. To me, that's the truest form of human spirituality out there.

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verklingen

zen isn't a disconnect, it's a heart-felt equanimity for the balance of circumstance. i see zen as reciprocal to the west's linear rationality. instead of setting out to connect all the dots, the intent of zen is seeing the dots, letting them connect and then seeing how oneself connects to them.

do you meditate?

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“Be kind, for everyone you meet is fighting a hard battle.”

SageTree

Wish I could say more but I'm out the door for work. Zen as part and parcel of Mahayana Buddhism, places emphasis on the bodhisattva, one who has attained enlightenment, and choses to stay and care for the rest of the suffering world, The ultimate act of compassion.

I'm not saying you are enlightened or not. What I am saying is I agree with ET in saying the lesson in the path of the bodhisattva is that we can too strive in life for giving as much compassion as we can to those 'less enlightened' then ourselves.

Laughing at someones pain isn't good in other words, in most cases.

Laughing at your own, is safer ground.

Something to maybe elucidate.
Bodhisattva Mind/Action

Metta,
SageTree

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scottishbastard

I dont try to laugh "at" people's pain, but I have a hard time taking anything seriously. I see that life is a big, strange experience and weird things happening seems very normal to me. For instance if my guitar gets stolen (which it did) I bitch for about 20 seconds and then just laugh about it. Like "Its just a piece of wood and metal".

And I am compassionate. Thats one thing thats strange. I care a lot about other's feelings and situations, so much that I dont care about my own. I spend more time talking to my friends trying to help them with their girlfriends/sex lives that I no longer focus on my own.

You are right that it may be a "cover up" for unresolved emotional issues, but all I can say is that I feel at peace now, where as I never have before. The only people unhappy with my choices are the people around me.

I dont know if Im enlightened or not. I dont think so, but I feel like Ive seen the other side of the mountain and I feel "wrong" turning back now.

Im just sort of at a loss...For instance this summer when I moved back here I tried to take care of myself. I was working out, shaving every day, hanging out with "normal" people like my gf's cousins, drinking beer, playing beer pong...But I couldnt stop myself from thinking how bullshit it all was. I was putting on an act. The last couple months Ive been slipping into a very comfortable place and I just feel like its the only good option.

I really thank you guys for your input. And I do agree that what im experiencing is only partially zen, and part defense mechanism.

And yes I do meditate. Thats actually whats been bringing me to this feeling. I had tons of trouble meditating for years, but the last few months Ive found myself slipping into a state of anti-thought while meditating. I just kind of wake up an hour later and go "How long have I been sitting here?".

I enjoy life very much. My favorite things to do are play with my dog, watch the sun come up, go for walks, smoke a bowl with friends etc.

I dont know...Im just a bit confused about it all. I feel like Im ready to make the leap, but Im afraid of the people around me who are affected by this. The main problem is my girlfriend. She thinks Im not interested in her anymore and is getting all self consious. I love her more than anything, and she is truly beautiful (as in way to good for me beautiful)...Im not a homosexual, so she cant see why I have very little interest in sex recently. I guess I cant either.

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Yeah but you're going to do what you wanna do
No matter what I ask of you
You think you hold the high hand
I've got my doubts
I come from Chino where the asphalt sprouts
.....

And even if I have to go to Claremont
Well I guess I'll just have to go to Claremont
Let me go
Let me lie low

Yeah but you're going to do what you wanna do
No matter what I ask of you
And you send your dark messengers to tempt me
I come from Chino so all your threats are empty

- the mountain goats

JcP

^ this.

sounds like there might be a mistake going on on both sides. Your friends are still living in their egos and therefore see your lack of "extreme" expected emotions to circumstances wrong. Instead of seeing that you (according to yourself) are feeling great, they are judging you as wrong/inadequate because they hold expectations about what you should be.
You, however, seem to be missing the fact that the zen mentality is not a disconnect from all things, but a CONNECTION to all things equally. It's not that you don't feel bad when someone dies. You just don't allow the ego (I'm alone. He/she is gone. I am sad) to overpower your entire psyche (I loved him/her as I love all things. Nothing is gone, merely changed).

I've encountered similar reactions from friends/family when I began to study zen. They see you less "engaged" and you are, therefore, less engaged in their eyes. In reality you are FAR MORE engaged than ever, just in a new way. Zen is about letting go. Letting go of perceptions and expectations most of all.
This change can be weird and disconcerting to people who perceive you a certain way and EXPECT you to behave in a way they want.

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Just look out around us, people fightin their wars...
They think they'll be happy when they've settled their scores...
Let's lay down our weapons
and hold us apart
be still for just a minute
try to open our hearts
MORE LOVE.

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Rev It's not what you see, it's that you're looking.

Waves

“Before enlightenment; chop wood, carry water. After enlightenment; chop wood, carry water.”

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On this life that we call home
The years go fast and the days go so slow

SweetSativa

Wow, you've had a lot of shit to deal with. Sometimes apathy is a type of self-protection... it's a type of psychological shock. The mind and body become disconnected. This is a rather genious way to deal with/ avoid pain but the problem is that you cannot go through life outside of your body. By doing this, you are denying parts... beautiful and necessary parts, of yourself. Many of us who go through tragedy and mourning, especially as kids do not have the support needed to go through it properly. As a result, we find ways to deal that work well at the time but may serve to harm us in the long run. Sometimes the talk of letting go of the ego can lead to undesirable effects. Your ego is who you are. If there is no meaning, then every single thing is the most meaningful thing! Allowing ourselves to experience the emotions fully, allows them to leave our body and rids us of blockages that can lead to such things as physical and mental illnesses. Live in the now... don't judge your emotions, but experience them, don't judge your judgments but observe them.

"Every man is more than just himself; he also represents the unique, the very special and always significant and remarkable point at which the world's phenomena intersect, only once in this way, and never again."
— Hermann Hesse


Your interests and path can serve you well. Meditation can serve to disconnect you from pain and sometimes that is appropriate. Another thing that meditation can do is to open you to answers lying inside or above yourself. Ask a question and meditate on this. Your subconscious mind can answer questions even in your dreams. Ask for guidance, write it down, say it aloud... get all of the senses involved and then sleep on it and write down your dreams.

Apathy is common with depression.

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"Why is it that when people talk to God, we call it praying but when God talks to people, we call it crazy?"- Touched by an Angel
http://www.youtube.com/user/immelody.../0/DDRj93dQ0O0

SageTree

I would like to agree, that stating an intention before meditation is really helpful to me with my sitting. I visualize who or what I am building my intension for, be it a direct prayer of concern, or just learning from myself on how to be more loving and stable for others benefit. Intension helps. Knowing why you are doing something.

Thanks for all you said SS, that was really nice.

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