MannyBoy

Hey this isn't addressed at you Gben. I know you took this off of another site. But this raises a pet peeve of mine - that every time the Bible speaks of a tree or a plant or an herb we who enjoy the benefits of marijuana jump to the conclusion that the Biblical writer is referring to pot.

This only serves to lesson our credulity as ones trying to legalize pot it also is poor translation of the message God would send to humankind.

And BTW, BibleGuy and I are different people.

MannyBoy

There is only one Bible. There are however different translations of the Bible (originally written in ancient Hebrew and Greek primarily). And in your defense mook, they do call some of these "versions" (NIV = New International Version and so on) but they are really different translations into English. There are translations into modern Spanish and other languages of course.

celestialpillow

"i am you and you are me and we are all together" lolol!
- the beatles

in a supranatural world we see the spirit of john lennon and experience george harrison in the aura. They were musical prophets, PROMISE! These people were opened up by marijuana as it is very easy to see. Sounds lovely to believe that the world is enlivened and enlightened by a magical herb that brings souls together.

Peace love and harmony!

Yea I've found a magical flowery plant. The plant reminded me of mary jane and shroomy, cool I hope!

really connected me with the "skywalker" and "organa" kids

BibleGuy

Mannyboy,

You apparently object to the idea that these two verses refer to cannabis. You must have a solid reason for your objection. Assuming that's the case, will you please explain what your specific rationale is and also what these two verses do specifically refer to? That will be helpful.

Thanks.

hijabihippie

"All elephants are gray. It does not logically follow, however, that all gray things are elephants."
--unknown

BibleGuy

So then... All cannabis are green. It does not logically follow, however, that all green things are cannabis.

100% agreed.

Sugar420

i dont think we should study the bible really hard to find justifications for our use of ganja, it is too much like those tv preachers that concentrate on end times prophesy and talk only about that, or those that pick out verses to prop up their whole "prosperity ministry" thing they got goin on.

we should definitely study the bible in a more holistic way

SageTree

"Elephant in the Dark" Rumi
(trans. Coleman Barks)

Some Hindus have an elephant to show.
No one here has ever seen an elephant.
They bring it at night to a dark room.
One by one, we go in the dark and come out
saying how we experience the animal.
One of us happens to touch the trunk.
"A water-pipe kind of creature."
Another, the ear. "A very strong, always moving
back and forth, fan-animal."
Another, the leg. "I find it still,
like a column on a temple."
Another touches the curved back.
"A leathery throne."
Another, the cleverest, feels the tusk.
"A rounded sword made of porcelain."
He's proud of his description.
Each of us touches one place
and understands the whole in that way.
The palm and the fingers feeling in the dark are
how the senses explore the reality of the elephant.
If each of us held a candle there,
and if we went in together,
we could see it.

This is a really good way of illustrating the many avatars in Hinduism as well. Each Deity an attribute of Brahman, much like if all of Allah, from whom blessings flow, and the 99 names/attributes came to life in a human form that was worshiped ,part and parcel, as Allah as a whole. It's like picking off your favourite topping from the Deluxe pizza, but knowing it comes from a much larger pie, and knowing that you can just eat the topping alone, or you will still hunger for more.

__________________

SageTree

How do you feel, if you do, that cannabis has enabled or helped you spiritually regarding the Bible?

Smoking and reading the Bible in the evenings is what lead me to start meditation one evening after a reading. That changed the coarse of my spiritual life forever.

But I digress I asked you

Glad you are hear Veda and that you find centredness with your Self/Beliefs

__________________

MannyBoy

You just answered your question to me BibleGuy.

When the Bible speaks of a plant. It may just be speaking of a plant. We would be wrong in that case to superimpose it as metaphor for pot. It saps our credibility (wrong word in the earlier post!) and only reinforces the worlds view of us as nonsensical stoners who are leaping at every half truth as an excuse to get high.

MannyBoy

I agree if you are saying we should not twist the Biblical words. I am also against those who use Biblical out of the context in which they were written to "prove" pot or alcohol or whatever is "wrong". Both are poor and backward uses of the message God gave to humans.

Like you, I am for a careful holistic study for the possible mention of cannabis in the Bible. If, for instance, there is a word an ancient Biblical writer used that was understood to refer to cannabis, but centuries later the meaning was lost. This would be valuable to know. Then we should see what God had to say through that writer and other Biblical writers who used that ancient Hebrew word about the plant.

The Old Testament was written thousands (some sections over 4,000) years ago in form of Hebrew so old nothing like it exists today.

I suspect since God made the plant, He would have positive things to say about it's responsible use.

One Biblical passage I think is very relevant. The context: God is creating the cosmos out of nothing. "Then God said, 'Let the land produce vegetation: seed bearing plants and trees on the land that bear fruit with seed in it according t their various kinds ... And God saw that it was good." When God was done creating the cosmos - "God saw all that he had made, and it was very good.(emphasis mine)"

MannyBoy

You just answered your question to me BibleGuy.

When the Bible speaks of a plant. It may just be speaking of a plant. We would be wrong in that case to superimpose it as metaphor for pot. It saps our credibility (wrong word in the earlier post!) and only reinforces the worlds view of us as nonsensical stoners who are leaping at every half truth as an excuse to get high.

SageTree

The canonization process is said to have started around 1100 BCE, 12th century. For the Hebrew texts.

Of note, the Vedas were collected between 1500-1100 BCE.

Which is pretty interesting that two major world religions were textually forming at the same time, specifically. Not that life isn't always happening beside anothers. Just sorta cool side note.

__________________

Sugar420

i dont know, maybe ganja hasnt done anything specific in connection with the bible, any more/different than cups of tea and snuggly blankets have done in my bible study

SageTree

relaxing is relaxing, I take from that ?


For me herb really helped me step back and look at how I looked at things and why I believed them. I looked deeper and more personal when I read and acted in my life.

The Buddhist practice of looking at Mind, which I found in meditation instruction is where it led me, and that in turn helped me live closer to the landscape of my spiritual life, which is heavily planted with Christian understanding and modeling the life of Jesus. What I began to see is that I was growing Perennial Philosophy, and that Christianity was the cultivare. Looking at my mind through Buddhism enabled me to live more Jesus-centeredly. And then brought me again to reading the Bible a while later.

However, Christianity is still the first blossoms I knew and is the 'language' which many of us relate to. So I am always looking for familiar blossoms from the eastern part of the garden, we could say. And just growing Closer to the Knower because of that.

__________________

MannyBoy

It's a bit more involved Sage, at least for the Biblical texts. From the Jewish and Christian scholar perspectives, the first 5 books of the Old Testament - the law (also called the Torah or the Pentateuch) occured from "the beginning" to around 1,400. In this sense you are correct Sage - well at least as far as these scholars are concerned The principle writers probably did write these events down at that time, but we do not have these original "documents."

The actual canonization (a canon is a collection of writings that are agreed to hold authority by one group or another) was much later. It was at the council of Jamnia around the close of the first century AD.

Most of us are very surprised to find that the close of the Old Testament canon was actually after the events of the New Testament.

I am just learning about the Vedas, so I can't add much, but I believe these are some of the holy writings of our Hindu brothers and sisters? Is this correct?

MannyBoy

As a Christian, and a teacher, I find meditation a lost art in the practice of spiritually coming closer to God. It seems we are to busy. It doesn't seems "practical." Yet, these are the times I find the most growth in becoming into the likeness of Jesus.

Does the herb help? Or is it for some of us (me too) something external I have to do to stop the forever spinning mind?

Sugar420

yes pretty much, like the bible they came from an earlier oral tradition before ever getting written down. since then, todays traditional teaching is that the vedas got reduced and perverted by evil... theres a lot of stuff about conquest and praise for military victories and racism in them. difficult to say how holy they really are.
oh this could be a very long tangent that doesnt really belong here in this thread

SageTree

I appreciate your reply. I'm not sure if what I italicized was for all or specifically me. So I just wanted to say that I am familiar with these.
It's worth noting and knowing, that I grew up a very dedicated Christian who sees the Love in the message of Jesus. I went to camps and church of my own volition, where I was president and teacher to my peers on Youth Group, as well as being a Youth leader in my Church. I love(d) God in how I understood the things I read and what I felt inside.
History IS why I got into reading about religions and ultimately became the catalyst of doubt, regarding how many people had a chance to turn and guide the way a particular faith went. Accompanied by the way people within my home Church treated me for my dress and my parents who split up eventually, I was whole heartedly discouraged with 'Church'. My studies personally of the early and later Biblical histories as well as reading books from 'experts' continues till this day.
One night as I was reading the Bible, I was also smoking a joint. This is the night of my personal awaking. For, this is the night I started meditating, even though I didn't know what it was, I closed my eyes after reading and after wards I thought I should read about it more, which is where I found Buddha and his message. What I read in his message was a Christ and Deliverer, and his message was to me the same and perhaps more clear, yet unspecific at the same time. In this philosophy, I found a way to fuse a manual for living with my ideas of loving and all the room I needed to explore them. Being Buddhist makes me a better Christian, in a sense. It also assists me in anything I read secular or religious.
I think what herb did for me personally is to enable the door to come open, in my perceptions, and allowed me to look in, unfettered by ego, then consider why I believed things, and if I did or was just told to. As time goes on herb has made my meditations harder at some points because it didn't slow my mind, while at other times it has been useful. More and more I tend to lean away from meditation with herbs. Personally if I was ever without them, I still want to know I can find a piece of peace to sit on for a while.
Here is some reading about them.
Vedas
And the always popular enough:
Vedas - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

It nice to have you around Manny, it's nice to have people perhaps more dedicated to just Christianity than myself, as it's a good set of people to help myself learn and understand more or at least consider.

__________________

BibleGuy

Great story Sage. I used to read a book based upon this story to my sons.