The Bible and Cannabis

MannyBoy · 11-02-2009, 08:24 AM

BibleGuy and I were PM-img about the possibility of cannabis use in the Bible. He referred me to a wikipedia reference that was pretty interesting and opened up a good area of discussion that I wanted to invite you all in on. The link to the reference is

Religious and spiritual use of cannabis - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia scroll down to the Ancient Hebraic use

Generally, I have done to much serious Biblical research to take Wiki as a serious source. Sorry to all of you Wiki lovers out there. It's great for a quick-and-dirty info check. And don't get me wrong, it does have some interesting material, like the stuff I mention here, but much of the information lacks research veracity IMHO.

Anyway, the reference to marijuana and religious use I think was really interesting.

It first cites Aryeh Kaplan, a Jewish scholar in the 1980's, postulating data to support cannabis as at least part of the holy anointing oil and this oil as an ingredient in holy incense used in tabernacle/temple worship. I am adding a bit here. You can follow the link to his page and get more. Main point - this scholar gives evidence that cannabis was the plant called kaneh-bosem in the ancient Hebrew Biblical Old Testament manuscripts.

More interestingly, the wiki reference goes on to mention Sula Benet who seems to imply something else at least possible and fascinating. She suggests that the Septuagint (this was the Old Testament translated into Greek - done around 500 to 300 before Christ) mistranslated the Hebrew word kaneh-bosem (either in error or not) to calamus in Greek (also a smelly herb in that part of the world, but an entirely different plant). This mistranslation from potentially "cannabis" (it might be cannabis, Kaplan thinks so) to "calamus" continued on in future Greek translations and future translations of the Old Testament from the Greek (our King James English translation used this as a secondary source).

Most fascinating to me is Benet seems to suggest that these Hebrew editors then went back and edited older Hebrew texts of the Old Testament to reflect this change![/U] They changed the original writing from kaneh-bosem to calamus. Keep in mind, our modern translations (English for most of those reading this) come from these ancient Hebrew manuscripts so if the change were made it would be reflected in our Bible today.

Summarizing, our current Biblical Old Testament (English translations or others) are based primarily upon the Hebrew manuscripts existent at the time of the translation. Benet's work suggests the original unedited writing of the Old Testament mentions sacred use of the plant kaneh-bosem in anointing oils and possibly incense. Kaplan's work suggests this plant is cannabis.

If true - and I doubt it - this would be astounding!

BibleGuy · 11-02-2009, 12:49 PM

Thanks for starting this thread MannyBoy. This subject is very worthy of study and clear understanding.

"Most fascinating to me is Benet seems to suggest that these Hebrew editors then went back and edited older Hebrew texts of the Old Testament to reflect this change!" -- MannyBoy

Yes, I find that fascinating as well! As far as I've been able to tell, the "calamus" translation was applied because, at least by definition, they didn't know specifically what qaneh bosem was (or perhaps did but chose to hide it). Originally, "Calamus" is neither a Hebrew, Greek or English word, but is Latin, from Greek Kalamos,meaning a reed (the plant or its stem, or that of a similar plant). Per Strong's, Kalamos is a word of uncertain affinity, translated as "reed" and "pen" in the New Testament (KJV).

So English Calamus is from Latin Calamus which is from Greek Kalamos, is a reed of some sort, but specifically unidentified. This understanding, or presumption, of a non-specific "balmy reed" was applied to Hebrew qaneh bosem in the Old Testament, thus we have the "Calamus" translation. (this is my personal hypothesis regarding how/why "calamus" was applied)

Interesting articles:

Etymology of Kalamos
Etymology of Cannabis
Cannabis at entheology.org.

The strong objection by those who find the concept of a psychoactive/intoxicating plant being used by God's people unthinkable

is also curious. Even if we accept "Calamus" (Acorus calamus or "Sweet Flag"), it too is a psychoactive/visionary plant that has history as an entheogen.

Calamus at MAYA Enthbotanicals (no citations)
Calamus at amazing-nature.com (with citations)
Calamus at drugsafetysite.com (one commenter there thinks "calamus" is the correct biblical translation).
Calamus at shamansgarden.com
Calamus at entheology.org

Does anyone have copies or links to reprints of either of these articles?

Sula Benet, Early Diffusions and Folk Uses of Hemp. (Reprinted in Cannabis and Culture, Vera Rubin, Ed. The Hague: Moutan, 1975.)
Sara Benetowa (Sula Benet), Tracing One Word Through Different Languages. (1936). (Reprinted in The Book of Grass, 1967.)

BibleGuy · 11-11-2009, 12:10 PM

What'cha been finding Manny? Anything new/more?

Anyone else want to chime in here? Does anyone care or is it unimportant to you?

I'm gonna try a poll...

**SageTree** · 11-11-2009, 08:12 PM

I enjoy what you have to contribute BG. I don't have a lot to add specifically but always enjoy hearing your interests. We're all geek about something

And we love geeks around here fo sho.

Mercury · 11-11-2009, 09:15 PM

so what does the bible say about cannabis?

badgoalie85 · 11-11-2009, 09:28 PM

i got 20 theoretical dollars right here that says mannyboy and bibleguy are the same person.

hijabihippie · 11-12-2009, 08:27 AM

I would caution against taking Wikipedia as an authoritative source. Seriously. Use it as a jumping-off point, but do your own research as well. Interlibrary loan might help. Let me see what my school's library turns up-we're a Research I university, so our libraries are kickass.

**SageTree** · 11-12-2009, 10:44 AM

Looking at the references are the trail head. Wiki, is like that big map that isn't always to scale with the trail itself.

BibleGuy · 11-12-2009, 02:04 PM

goalie: Nope, different guy.

hippie and Sage: I agree - Wikipedia is a launch point. But one thing that I really like about it is that its easy to share links to Wikipedia and/or other web sources. I suspect that very few will immediately run to the library or bookstore to verify things, but that many will click on a link for a peek at something, and that peek might inspire them to look further on their own. It often does with me anyway.

On the lighter side... According to this online encyclopedia, marijuana is dangerous and...

may cause pregnancy in women who have recently been sexually active
functions as a "gateway drug". Frequent and even casual users may become fascinated with gates, and as their dependency deepens, they may move on to more elaborate kinds of entries, including arches, turnstiles, and even portcullises.

Qui-Bong Jinn · 11-12-2009, 03:25 PM

Jesus was obviously a pothead.

Linkey · 11-12-2009, 03:31 PM

^why?

Roach · 11-13-2009, 06:43 PM

I'd be much happier with knowledge of use of cannabis in "The Hobbit", or other entertaining and believable fiction.

BibleGuy · 11-13-2009, 11:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mookie

I'd be much happier with knowledge of use of cannabis in "The Hobbit", or other entertaining and believable fiction.

What did you think "Old Toby" was?

Oh, wait... Sorry. That might not be in The Hobbit - I don't remember. But it is in LOTR.

Gben-Chalice · 11-15-2009, 12:02 PM

got a couple of refs off a christian disscussion site...
Marijuana & the Bible
And I will raise up for them a plant of renown, and they shall be no more consumed with hunger in the land, neither bear the shame of the heathen any more. -- Ezekiel 34:29
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

"The Lord said unto me, 'I will take my rest and I will consider in my dwelling place like a clear heat upon herbs.' " -- Isaiah 18:4-5
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

verklingen · 11-15-2009, 12:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mookie

I'd be much happier with knowledge of use of cannabis in "The Hobbit", or other entertaining and believable fiction.

a friend and i had a plan growing up to do the hobbit and eventually lord of the rings in graphic novel style sprinkled with obvious drug use

neither of us could draw very well

POT · 11-15-2009, 03:26 PM

Interesting thread.

yo. · 11-15-2009, 05:03 PM

what is still real about the bible? i wouldn't doubt it if it really was mistranslated from cannabis

BibleGuy · 11-16-2009, 11:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gben-Chalice

got a couple of refs off a christian disscussion site... ...

Excellent references Gben. Have you done, or found, any analysis regarding meaning?

420smokeman · 11-16-2009, 03:31 PM

THE GREAT KENEH BOSEM DEBATE - Cannabis Culture Forums

this post might be intresting

Roach · 11-16-2009, 08:02 PM

Quote:

what is still real about the bible?

lol

which version ?

11-02-2009, 08:24 AM	#1 (permalink)
MannyBoy YaHookan Join Date: Sep 2009 Posts: 58 Thanks: 20 Thanked 16 Times in 10 Posts	The Bible and Cannabis BibleGuy and I were PM-img about the possibility of cannabis use in the Bible. He referred me to a wikipedia reference that was pretty interesting and opened up a good area of discussion that I wanted to invite you all in on. The link to the reference is Religious and spiritual use of cannabis - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia scroll down to the Ancient Hebraic use Generally, I have done to much serious Biblical research to take Wiki as a serious source. Sorry to all of you Wiki lovers out there. It's great for a quick-and-dirty info check. And don't get me wrong, it does have some interesting material, like the stuff I mention here, but much of the information lacks research veracity IMHO. Anyway, the reference to marijuana and religious use I think was really interesting. It first cites Aryeh Kaplan, a Jewish scholar in the 1980's, postulating data to support cannabis as at least part of the holy anointing oil and this oil as an ingredient in holy incense used in tabernacle/temple worship. I am adding a bit here. You can follow the link to his page and get more. Main point - this scholar gives evidence that cannabis was the plant called kaneh-bosem in the ancient Hebrew Biblical Old Testament manuscripts. More interestingly, the wiki reference goes on to mention Sula Benet who seems to imply something else at least possible and fascinating. She suggests that the Septuagint (this was the Old Testament translated into Greek - done around 500 to 300 before Christ) mistranslated the Hebrew word kaneh-bosem (either in error or not) to calamus in Greek (also a smelly herb in that part of the world, but an entirely different plant). This mistranslation from potentially "cannabis" (it might be cannabis, Kaplan thinks so) to "calamus" continued on in future Greek translations and future translations of the Old Testament from the Greek (our King James English translation used this as a secondary source). Most fascinating to me is Benet seems to suggest that these Hebrew editors then went back and edited older Hebrew texts of the Old Testament to reflect this change![/U] They changed the original writing from kaneh-bosem to calamus. Keep in mind, our modern translations (English for most of those reading this) come from these ancient Hebrew manuscripts so if the change were made it would be reflected in our Bible today. Summarizing, our current Biblical Old Testament (English translations or others) are based primarily upon the Hebrew manuscripts existent at the time of the translation. Benet's work suggests the original unedited writing of the Old Testament mentions sacred use of the plant kaneh-bosem in anointing oils and possibly incense. Kaplan's work suggests this plant is cannabis. If true - and I doubt it - this would be astounding!

11-02-2009, 12:49 PM	#2 (permalink)
BibleGuy YaHookan Join Date: Sep 2009 Posts: 329 Thanks: 137 Thanked 136 Times in 85 Posts	Thanks for starting this thread MannyBoy. This subject is very worthy of study and clear understanding. "Most* fascinating to me is Benet seems to suggest that these Hebrew editors then went back and edited older Hebrew texts of the Old Testament to reflect this change!" -- MannyBoy* Yes, I find that fascinating as well! As far as I've been able to tell, the "calamus" translation was applied because, at least by definition, they didn't know specifically what qaneh bosem was (or perhaps did but chose to hide it). Originally, "Calamus" is neither a Hebrew, Greek or English word, but is Latin, from Greek Kalamos,meaning a reed (the plant or its stem, or that of a similar plant). Per Strong's, Kalamos is a word of uncertain affinity, translated as "reed" and "pen" in the New Testament (KJV). So English Calamus is from Latin Calamus which is from Greek Kalamos, is a reed of some sort, but specifically unidentified. This understanding, or presumption, of a non-specific "balmy reed" was applied to Hebrew qaneh bosem in the Old Testament, thus we have the "Calamus" translation. (this is my personal hypothesis regarding how/why "calamus" was applied) Interesting articles: Etymology of Kalamos Etymology of Cannabis Cannabis at entheology.org. The strong objection by those who find the concept of a psychoactive/intoxicating plant being used by God's people unthinkable is also curious. Even if we accept "Calamus" (Acorus calamus or "Sweet Flag"), it too is a psychoactive/visionary plant that has history as an entheogen. Calamus at MAYA Enthbotanicals (no citations) Calamus at amazing-nature.com (with citations) Calamus at drugsafetysite.com (one commenter there thinks "calamus" is the correct biblical translation). Calamus at shamansgarden.com Calamus at entheology.org Does anyone have copies or links to reprints of either of these articles? Sula Benet, Early Diffusions and Folk Uses of Hemp. (Reprinted in Cannabis and Culture, Vera Rubin, Ed. The Hague: Moutan, 1975.) Sara Benetowa (Sula Benet), Tracing One Word Through Different Languages. (1936). (Reprinted in The Book of Grass, 1967.) Last edited by BibleGuy; 11-02-2009 at 12:52 PM. Reason: grammar

11-11-2009, 08:12 PM	#4 (permalink)
SageTree ~Kalyāṇa-mitrā~ Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: In Love Posts: 22,612 Blog Entries: 26 Thanks: 11,486 Thanked 5,709 Times in 4,024 Posts	I enjoy what you have to contribute BG. I don't have a lot to add specifically but always enjoy hearing your interests. We're all geek about something And we love geeks around here fo sho. __________________ YaHooka is.... Cannabis lovers from around the world pulling up a comfy chair, picking up a vaporizer, a bong, a brownie, a pipe, or a joint, getting high, stoned, buzzed or healthy. Uniting our minds in conversation...While Portraying a Positive Image of marijuana and marijuana users to the world. Treat your fellow YaHookans with kindness,respect and tolerance. "We're not here to judge what's good from bad, But to do the things that are right."

11-11-2009, 09:28 PM	#6 (permalink)
badgoalie85 Spiraling Out Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: NoVA Posts: 1,145 Thanks: 97 Thanked 454 Times in 288 Posts	i got 20 theoretical dollars right here that says mannyboy and bibleguy are the same person. __________________ Pursue happiness. To each his own.

11-12-2009, 08:27 AM	#7 (permalink)
hijabihippie YaHookan Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 1,587 Thanks: 1,153 Thanked 655 Times in 515 Posts	I would caution against taking Wikipedia as an authoritative source. Seriously. Use it as a jumping-off point, but do your own research as well. Interlibrary loan might help. Let me see what my school's library turns up-we're a Research I university, so our libraries are kickass. Last edited by hijabihippie; 11-12-2009 at 08:31 AM.

11-11-2009, 12:10 PM	#3 (permalink)
BibleGuy YaHookan Join Date: Sep 2009 Posts: 329 Thanks: 137 Thanked 136 Times in 85 Posts	What'cha been finding Manny? Anything new/more? Anyone else want to chime in here? Does anyone care or is it unimportant to you? I'm gonna try a poll...

11-11-2009, 09:15 PM	#5 (permalink)
Mercury Special Delivery Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: The States Posts: 8,190 Thanks: 294 Thanked 799 Times in 537 Posts	so what does the bible say about cannabis?

11-12-2009, 10:44 AM	#8 (permalink)
SageTree ~Kalyāṇa-mitrā~ Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: In Love Posts: 22,612 Blog Entries: 26 Thanks: 11,486 Thanked 5,709 Times in 4,024 Posts	Looking at the references are the trail head. Wiki, is like that big map that isn't always to scale with the trail itself. __________________ YaHooka is.... Cannabis lovers from around the world pulling up a comfy chair, picking up a vaporizer, a bong, a brownie, a pipe, or a joint, getting high, stoned, buzzed or healthy. Uniting our minds in conversation...While Portraying a Positive Image of marijuana and marijuana users to the world. Treat your fellow YaHookans with kindness,respect and tolerance. "We're not here to judge what's good from bad, But to do the things that are right."

11-12-2009, 02:04 PM	#9 (permalink)
BibleGuy YaHookan Join Date: Sep 2009 Posts: 329 Thanks: 137 Thanked 136 Times in 85 Posts	goalie: Nope, different guy. hippie and Sage: I agree - Wikipedia is a launch point. But one thing that I really like about it is that its easy to share links to Wikipedia and/or other web sources. I suspect that very few will immediately run to the library or bookstore to verify things, but that many will click on a link for a peek at something, and that peek might inspire them to look further on their own. It often does with me anyway. On the lighter side... According to this online encyclopedia, marijuana is dangerous and... may cause pregnancy in women who have recently been sexually active functions as a "gateway drug". Frequent and even casual users may become fascinated with gates, and as their dependency deepens, they may move on to more elaborate kinds of entries, including arches, turnstiles, and even portcullises.

11-12-2009, 03:25 PM	#10 (permalink)
Qui-Bong Jinn Jedi High Council Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Kingston, Ontario Posts: 1,885 Thanks: 793 Thanked 385 Times in 294 Posts	Jesus was obviously a pothead.

11-12-2009, 03:31 PM	#11 (permalink)
Linkey . Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: USA Posts: 1,463 Blog Entries: 1 Thanks: 425 Thanked 235 Times in 75 Posts	^why?

11-13-2009, 06:43 PM	#12 (permalink)
Roach Victoria Aut Mors Join Date: Dec 1999 Posts: 6,771 Thanks: 2,116 Thanked 1,721 Times in 1,333 Posts	I'd be much happier with knowledge of use of cannabis in "The Hobbit", or other entertaining and believable fiction.

11-15-2009, 12:02 PM	#14 (permalink)
Gben-Chalice red up Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: cali Posts: 26 Thanks: 1 Thanked 3 Times in 2 Posts	got a couple of refs off a christian disscussion site... Marijuana & the Bible And I will raise up for them a plant of renown, and they shall be no more consumed with hunger in the land, neither bear the shame of the heathen any more. -- Ezekiel 34:29 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- "The Lord said unto me, 'I will take my rest and I will consider in my dwelling place like a clear heat upon herbs.' " -- Isaiah 18:4-5 --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

11-15-2009, 03:26 PM	#16 (permalink)
POT YaHookan Join Date: Nov 2009 Posts: 8 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Interesting thread.

11-15-2009, 05:03 PM	#17 (permalink)
yo. Controversial Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: SOCAL Posts: 1,207 Thanks: 676 Thanked 202 Times in 143 Posts	what is still real about the bible? i wouldn't doubt it if it really was mistranslated from cannabis __________________ "God" is an alien and we all came from another galaxy as an expansion of our specie's existence.

11-16-2009, 03:31 PM	#19 (permalink)
420smokeman CannabisConnoisseur Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: BC Posts: 1,569 Thanks: 192 Thanked 145 Times in 96 Posts	THE GREAT KENEH BOSEM DEBATE - Cannabis Culture Forums this post might be intresting __________________ cause there aint nothing else to do and any where i go i know im you and i keep coming back forward through to myself

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