SageTree

Thanks for sharing your story. This line caught my eye. I don't know what I know but it sure has been a long, interesting walk through the gallery of ways of connecting. It'd say its been more absorption, like feeling, than committing it all to memory. It's like a long back packing trip, sometimes you see a lot of pretty trees, but once you come out to an over look it all becomes more clear where you've just been.

Personally speaking, the ethic code of Buddhism is what maked me feel close to the Christian perspective, see it value, to me, and never considered jumping ship because of it.

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celestialpillow

sometimes it is good to have a mantra when you are meditating to lead you into the awareness of holy oneness, all you do is repeate the phrase or mantra and you reach higher levels of meditations. Clear your mind of everything but the mantra and begin to feel holy. Guess it helps if you start with a holy or at least open mantra. I feel it is easier this way and you know where you are once you get up really on hight planes if being.

Try new mantras, stick with your favorite, anything goes

The beatles did this sorta meditations when they went to India and studied with the maharishi

"sweetness vibe glowing and opening to new playful resonances, i am begining to see the light, now i see the light, now I am light and am overfloweing and flowering with glowy illumination"

SageTree

Reading through a book and saw a few names of note on Christian, Sufi and Judaic traditions. I realize that my knowledge of the later doesn't extend much past the Jewish Bible/OT.
So while the link isn't a book, it's a Path that I've intersected a few times. Like once I saw the book 'God is a Verb' ,which has been my long held tenant of explanation on the matter and is about Kabbalah. This is a book I've encountered 2 times since then. Me thinks it's time I take some aim and get this one as it certainly touches places of meaning in me.

Anyway, here are the wiki pages I pulled up on them.

The Cloud of UnKnowing

Dark Night of the Soul

The Conference of the Birds

Kabbalah

Namaste,
SageTree

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SageTree

Since I rehashed the original two threads a bit and brought them together I wanted to take the time to give a nod to you Double H about some really interesting readings/video.

Ethiopian Orthodox Christianity



All part of these are "Non-Chalcedonian" (Coucil of Chalcedon) with deals with the one single unified Nature of Christ as opposed to the Hypostatic Union,promoted by much of Western Christianity.

The Oriental Orthodox Churches, which today include the Coptic Orthodox Church, the Armenian Apostolic Church, the Syriac Orthodox Church, the Malankara Orthodox Church of India, the Ethiopian Orthodox Church, and the Eritrean Orthodox Tewahdo Church. Which all have their nuances which means plenty of good reading

Thanks for the heads up on these Double H because their ideas on the Nature of Jesus sets well with me. And paired with the topic in which I open the original posts, I feel there is a very accessible Jesus-Nature.

Blessing are upon me THANKS

Salaam
SageTree

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ProfessorMurder

Secret Teachings of All Ages: Mystic Christianity

It is by no means improbable that Jesus Himself originally propounded as
allegories the cosmic activities which were later con fused with His own life.
That the Χριστός, Christos, represents the solar power reverenced by every
nation of antiquity cannot be controverted. If Jesus revealed the nature and
purpose of this solar power under the name and personality of Christos,
thereby giving to this abstract power the attributes of a god-man, He but
followed a precedent set by all previous World-Teachers. This god-man, thus
endowed with all the qualities of Deity, signifies the latent divinity in every
man. Mortal man achieves deification only through at-one-ment with this
divine Self. Union with the immortal Self constitutes immortality, and he who
finds his true Self is therefore "saved." This Christos, or divine man in man, is
man's real hope of salvation--the living Mediator between abstract Deity and
mortal humankind. As Atys, Adonis, Bacchus, and Orpheus in all likelihood
were originally illumined men who later were confused with the symbolic
personages whom they created as personifications of this divine power, so
Jesus has been confused with the Christos, or god-man, whose wonders He
preached. Since the Christos was the god-man imprisoned in every creature,
it was the first duty of the initiate to liberate, or "resurrect, " this Eternal
One within himself. He who attained reunion with his Christos was
consequently termed a Christian, or Christened, man.

One of the most profound doctrines of the pagan philosophers concerned the
Universal Savior-God who lifted the souls of regenerated men to heaven
through His own nature. This concept was unquestionably the inspiration for
the words attributed to Jesus: "I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man
cometh unto the Father but by me." In an effort to make a single person out
of Jesus and His Christos, Christian writers have patched together a doctrine
which must be resolved back into its original constituents if the true meaning
of Christianity is to be rediscovered. In the Gospel narratives the Christos
represents the perfect man who, having passed through the various stages
of the "World Mystery" symbolized by the thirty-three years, ascends to the
heaven sphere where he is reunited with his Eternal Father. The story of
Jesus as now preserved is--like the Masonic story of Hiram Abiff--part of a
secret initiatory ritualism belonging to the early Christian and pagan Mysteries.

During the centuries just prior to the Christian Era, the secrets of the pagan
Mysteries had gradually fallen into the hands of the profane. To the student
of comparative religion it is evident that these secrets, gathered by a small
group of faithful philosophers and mystics, were reclothed in new symbolical
garments and thus preserved for several centuries under the name of Mystic
Christianity. It is generally supposed that the Essenes were the custodians of
this knowledge and also the initiators and educators of Jesus. If so, Jesus
was undoubtedly initiated in the same temple of Melchizedek where
Pythagoras had studied six centuries before.



This guy doesn't dissapoint.

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"No contaban con mi astucia!"

hijabihippie

Check out Reb Zalman Schachter-Shalomi, BKA "Reb Zalman"

Reb Zalman Legacy Project: The Reb Zalman Legacy Project

SageTree

Thanks Double H.

That looks really cool and am familiar with the sponsor, Naropa, which is a Buddhist college in the states. Thanks.

I found a really interesting book, with a topic about one of the books I posted, this week in the Diocese Library. It was about Christian Mysticism and the Future of Christianity. It gives the 'classic' approach as well as how it's being debt with, in practice, today.

I'm super excited and can just see time and again my 'self ideas' popping up as well as crossing theory with Buddhist philosophy.... SUPER cool! I might come back to Abraham yet

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hijabihippie

Check out The Jew in the Lotus: A Poet's Rediscovery of Jewish Identity in Buddhist India by Rodger Kamenetz. It tells of how a group of Jews, Reb Zalman included, met with the Dalai Lama. There's also a video with the same name out there. I saw it on PBS.

OldMan&TheWeed

Here's another interesting finding:

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Nintey-three percent of what I say is brilliant, factual information and seven percent is complete bullshit. Have fun deciding which is which.

SageTree

This is something I knew existed in idea, because of what I'd call open mindedness, however I didn't realize that this is an approach in theology. Of course you can imagine that I'd like this.

On the personal journey through all this in the thread, what I come to find out about the man, John Wesley, who started the sect of protestantism I grew up in, and was a priest in the Anglican Church, of which I attend now, I get yet another crazy fact.... John Wesley is an Inclusivist. Very cool when I think about Quietism, which has mystic elements + his idea of Christian Perfection + this all boils down to a pretty interesting parallel with how I've come to approach my own practice. Too bad they never talked about this stuff when I was younger, .

I don't miss the irony of me 'leaving' for lack of interest/understanding, getting my beliefs/language of understanding somewhere else, and then looking back at my roots on to be figuring out that more or less the stuff I find enriching to my practice was there all along.

Granted my ideas of God and all that biz might be too inclusive for so called orthodoxy, but I've been comfortable attending Anglican Mass because I know why I'm there and what the worship ritual means to me. People there certainly don't look at me crazy, when I am talking about this God thing without saying anything specifically or overtly Christian, like some sort of left wing nutzo new ager.

It's not to the 'T' got my rubber stamp as words of my mouth, but it's certainly an interesting topic and helps me form a logical base of explaining my Practice to a Christian, like the people who I volunteer with, who usually like to hear a Christ-y focus when answering their needs.

I can do that

Anyways, I hope this is interesting for you and that there is some merit in my sharing of this.


SageTree

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DougFunny

You do realize manly hall was an occultist and a satanist and free mason right?

masonbusters.com

Manly P. Hall Famous Masonic Scholar Confessed to being a Luciferian Satanist:

"When the Mason learns that the key to the warrior on the block is the proper application of the dynamo of the living power, he has Learned The Mystery of His Craft. The seething ENERGIES OF LUCIFER ARE IN HIS HANDS" (The Lost Keys to Freemasonry p.48)

This is a Statement Where Manly P. Hall admits that: "All Great Historians of Freemasonry Derived their Teachings from Pagan False god Worship:

"Preston, Gould, Mackey, Oliver, and Pike—in fact, nearly every great historian of Freemasonry-have all admitted the possibility of the modern society being connected, indirectly at least, with the ancient Mysteries, and their descriptions of the modern society are prefaced by excerpts from ancient writings descriptive of primitive ceremonials. These eminent Masonic scholars have all recognized in the legend of Hiram Abiff an adaptation of the Osiris myth; nor do they deny that the major part of the symbolism of the craft is derived from the pagan institutions of antiquity when the gods were venerated in secret places with strange figures and appropriate rituals." ( Rosicrucian and Masonic Origins; by Manly P. Hall Chapter 19. Page 397)

SageTree

So another overlap and deeper insights into my roots.

Theosis is a Greek word that means divinization, deification, or making divine. This transformation of a believer who is putting into practice (called praxis) the spiritual teachings of Jesus Christ and his gospel is a feature of Christian theology, particularly in the Greek Orthodox and the Catholic theology.

This approach of emulation is something I've always felt in my heart and believed that this was the best way to honour the real or allegorical birth,life,teaching, death and resurrection of Jesus. From the time I was little and looking back I can see the realness of the event isn't what effected my belief as much as seeing and feeling how the teachings actually came to life and happened.

So as I am reading around, looking for things on Rev. John Shelby Spong from another thread I started I came across this word Theosis.
This is the ambiguous definition of the theology as it can apply to any faith, that is here is the apophatic description of God.

That is a pretty interesting read about how it ties in with, is present in other religions and of note, Buddhism itself is mentioned there even though it's not specifically a theist or atheist Path.


Now this all ties in with what I posted waaay up at the top about John Wesley and 'Christian Perfection'. And this all makes a little more sense based on what I've read.

Now Wesley was an Anglican all his life, even though he was responsible for the start of the Methodist Church which was more of a revival movement or reform in it's concept. It was to be supplemental as displayed by some called the Methodist Calvinists.

So that helps explain where the Christian Perfection idea comes from. It's funny that is is disputed because Theosis seems to essentially be the same thing.

This is of course more to read into and distill.

In the realm of Theois/Mysticism there are two approaches which are:

And

The description of this above ambiguous. specifically in Christianity:
So that is all a lot of stuff for me to look into and read more about. Much of it I have encountered but theosis, for some reason avoided me till this point and really tied together a lot of ideas, thoughts and experiences I have had regarding the topic.

Much as the pass "The Kingdom of God is within" I don't find it irony then that all these 'new' ideas and theologies I am finding myself in, have been there, in the Christian theologiy as expounded and expressed from what is the Word.

Funny how life works in circles like that.

It's my intention to log and journal this information for my own records and processes. And I certainly do and still welcome discussion or thoughts shared on the matters at hand.

Thanks for reading and allowing me to share with you. I know these are links that require furthering of my own efforts, but there is enough in the pages which matches my understanding or experience I feel led to think it's not too far outside it, but rather just giving a more appropriate theological name to it.

It's great if you too find any merit in the words. It's not my intention to lecture, but as I said is more for the process of seeing my thoughts come together, as they have, which is so cool and neat too see how things are revealed me in time.

Namaste
SageTree

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SageTree

A good video that I liked and understood a lot.

This pertains to Orthodox Theology concerning Theosis.

If you aren't familiar this might be a good watch for a less than heard about Christian Church in the West.

For me it's startlingly different than how I was raised to believe, meaning in doctrine, although in practical ways is the same. When I contemplate how I what my beliefs and experiences where with God when I was young, this is alarmingly close to how I believed and am sure the 'differences' are merely aspects I didn't fully consider or explain as a child.

This thread has been going nearly 10 months now and I'm still discovering and uncovering things with in my self that apparently have a more apt title with in a theology.

SO here is the first one.



And this one is really interesting if you have time. Lots of history and I felt worth the watch.




SageTree

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celestialpillow

blue lillies be a sly fellow lass on wednesdays, so says sunday plsma sunday

why was the slow renassaince so morbid jokey pals?

silly put your sinlessness on jesus, why would you laugh at an angel, just sob if you will, tis alright in wholeness...

what is solomon about in the renaissance? why beyond new enlightenment?

@empossible some say? sly lass?

where is the weightlessness of the ocean in these moments? when will we smell marywanna on another planet or world just where we sleep? book of neptune arise, arise!!?? yea

moody i am in the sullen waves and with paint i will wish for new resonant lifeforms and beingness to shower upon the ages, will we?

where are the apostles of shamanism? in a boat? under myyyjg loomy? sipping in the winds? where is the ultimate sage apostle? why?

why are the loons on the loose? to be liberating? to see a new personage? a new play of potrait purity?

am we all the souls and spirits in bliss? where is peace of many worlds by lighte side emotions?

when will people learn to be elfs? why?

is surfing jesus walking on water in a metaphor?

is luke saying who?...is more the light of the world than jesus while jesus is that personage?

yall like malfoy?

who is a woman malfoy? why are we lemurians so much brighter emotionallly with solemness as all lifelightbeinpersona ges?

why am mey emo? is james of angel bible emo? sure

peace piceis easy salrangj

Xil

I think i'm a perrenialist. all mysticism is just different interpretations of the god/brahman/tao(my favorite )/Kali/... . the actual essence they are perceiving is the same, but since there are no adequate words to describe this it takes on cultural/religious context.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perennial_philosophy
aldous huxley liked this philosophy. i think part of my belief comes from what a believe motivated his, psychedelic (i believe mystic) intuition.

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Sugar420

why that sounds like pluralism

SageTree

There is a collection of essays by Huxley called "Huxley and God"... you might enjoy reading this, if you haven't already.
He also wrote a book called "Perennial Philosophy", which you might also be familiar with, as I'm not sure what you're being exposed to in your philosophy classes you mentioned in another thread, assuming you weren't joking about your BS in bs .

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Xil

in many ways yes. i do think however that many religions have diverged from this one universal truth. their mystical cores all witness the same truth, but as this gets turned into belief and dogma it often turns away. i won't venture to say which religions though because i don't consider myself that knowing

I've actually just recently started Huxley's book, and other books about mysticism. Before that my main exposure to mysticism was focused on yoga, tantra, etc and before that Daoism. I wasn't joking about the ba is bs, i decided to take what i want to study instead of training for whatever job i end up with. my acceptance of world religion and the diversity of beliefs has grown a lot in the past couple years, that alone makes it worth it in my book

Thanks for the suggestions, i'll have to take a look at those. you'r op was really interesting, i'm glad to have a little more exposure to christian mysticism now as that seems to get glossed over/drowned out by the non-mystical aspects.

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SageTree

Video I have to share:

The way Father Lazerous speaks to the Host/Pilgrim is astounding and refreshing to hear from such a devoted man's lips.

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SageTree

"The eye with which I see God is the same eye with which God sees me: my eye and God's eye are one eye, one seeing, one knowing and one love." -Meister Eckhart

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