Transhumanism - Page 2

Waves · 02-16-2010, 01:53 PM

why should everyone produce their own goods? people have been bartering and specializing for as long as they knew how to. if everyone was busy producing their own food no one would have time for other things like technology and medicine and social change and finding their own thing to do. thats why tribal societies that are still around arent advancing very fast (which isnt a bad thing btw). every man is a hunter and every women makes baskets and shit. no innovation or novelty. which works for them in their little micro-societies but wouldnt work very well for the planet as a whole. we are built to specialize and evolve.

not that theres anything wrong with YOU wanting to produce your own goods. if thats what you want pursue it with full aggression. my point is just we're all built and wired differently by nature for a reason. a guy who enjoys doing mathematics and science would fare no better off on a farm than a farmer in a science lab would.

the tricky thing with humans is we judge ourselves so much and we compare ourselves so much that everyone is so busy judging and comparing to others they dont stop and focus on themselves. people love to focus outside of themselves and shift the responsibility for their life outside of themselves. its much easier to conform to what others want you to be than it is to actually be yourself. that combined with the apathy and laziness factor can result in a species of people that dont care much about their own goals, and would rather sit in an office and do work they hate than actually find out what it is they love in life and pursue it. i guess thats one place that tribal cultures have an advantage. you wont find any maui tribesman slaving their lives away in jobs they hate. but they dont have heat or electricity or fancy hospitals or grocery stores or any of the other modern conveniences that our technological advancement provides us either.

Cerpin Taxt · 02-16-2010, 02:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by verklingen

i see where you're coming from man. we're definitely going at this in different ways, which is cool and i thank you for sharing.

Likewise... I cannot argue anything you've posted!

Quote:

our rather recent industrialization, and the extent to which we have haphazardly developed it, highlights the need for sustainability: an integration of technology and environment. as we inevitably become more aware of our world and our place in it, this gives us an opportunity to become, by extension, more aware of ourselves. could this lead to enlightenment? i would say it's the very path of enlightenment.

This point also worries me because with regard to alot of things, human beings tend to only take things into consideration when potential problems have already become realities. The health care system is a perfect example... You never walk into a doctors office and say, "Hey, I feel great right now! Is there any way that I can feel better?"

I suppose what I'm trying to say is that this path of enlightenment you describe, can present itself to a potentially vast majority who either don't understand it, are not willing to accept it, or simply don't give a fuck.

Quote:

sorry, but i have to ask some questions to qualify yours

are humans representative of the universal, cosmic condition? we are the universe's creation, after all. so wouldn't our creation of an artificial intelligence be absolutely representative of the human condition in the same way?

I suppose you are right. I guess it's just the reality of there being so much bad with the good in regards to the human condition that sticks in my craw. Being an idealistic cynic (oxymoron I know, but I cannot explain it any other way!) I tend to focus a lot on the bad and the potentials we have if they were at least controlled more adequately. Such is life though... there cannot be enlightenment without ignorance.

Quote:

since our earliest days we have been our technology. before the first being that could be called human was born, technology was being used by our ancestors. technology defined our ability to survive, and in a very real, tangible way our technology defines us. when this technology becomes advanced enough to "create" a consciousness, it will be tapping into the same source our consciousness developed from. that's my belief, anyway. artificial intelligence would be a way of talking with ourselves that takes advantage of our bias toward external authority. we'd be forced to be honest with ourselves -- our intents, goals and desires -- for perhaps the first time, ever.

exciting times, any way

I really truly hope that you are right and that is the way that we approach this potential reality. It's just that I don't see enough (or allow myself to see enough) of the good in humanity to be able to accept such responsibilities with grace. I have images of people becoming so distraught at the things they have to take into consideration that the knee-jerk reactions of anger and fear take over, and are subsequently exploited by those in power who could care less about enlightenment...

I can sense myself starting to get a bit off track here so I'll just finish by saying:

Interesting times indeed, my friend

Cerpin Taxt · 02-16-2010, 02:56 PM

And waves, I also agree completely I was just trying to get a point across and be as general as possible.

I'm well aware much of any philosophical musings I have are full of holes... But I am glad such holes can result in someone else voicing a truth such as that found in your last paragraph

SmokeaJoint · 02-16-2010, 03:34 PM

I have no problem with modern technology Waves, since Im using it as we speak.

Likewise, I realize that there is no way in hell to do what is was that I said, but thats my vision of Utopia because I see life as too hectic and complex. I wish things were simpler and what I posted seemed to me a good answer. Modern medicine, technology, and intelligence are all awesome things, but I personally would give them up. To each their own I suppose.

02-16-2010, 01:53 PM	#21 (permalink)
Waves Duderino Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: chiburbs Posts: 15,405 Thanks: 991 Thanked 4,036 Times in 2,224 Posts	why should everyone produce their own goods? people have been bartering and specializing for as long as they knew how to. if everyone was busy producing their own food no one would have time for other things like technology and medicine and social change and finding their own thing to do. thats why tribal societies that are still around arent advancing very fast (which isnt a bad thing btw). every man is a hunter and every women makes baskets and shit. no innovation or novelty. which works for them in their little micro-societies but wouldnt work very well for the planet as a whole. we are built to specialize and evolve. not that theres anything wrong with YOU wanting to produce your own goods. if thats what you want pursue it with full aggression. my point is just we're all built and wired differently by nature for a reason. a guy who enjoys doing mathematics and science would fare no better off on a farm than a farmer in a science lab would. the tricky thing with humans is we judge ourselves so much and we compare ourselves so much that everyone is so busy judging and comparing to others they dont stop and focus on themselves. people love to focus outside of themselves and shift the responsibility for their life outside of themselves. its much easier to conform to what others want you to be than it is to actually be yourself. that combined with the apathy and laziness factor can result in a species of people that dont care much about their own goals, and would rather sit in an office and do work they hate than actually find out what it is they love in life and pursue it. i guess thats one place that tribal cultures have an advantage. you wont find any maui tribesman slaving their lives away in jobs they hate. but they dont have heat or electricity or fancy hospitals or grocery stores or any of the other modern conveniences that our technological advancement provides us either. __________________ On this life that we call home The years go fast and the days go so slow Last edited by Waves; 02-16-2010 at 01:59 PM.

02-16-2010, 02:56 PM	#23 (permalink)
Cerpin Taxt Yahookan Zealot Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Canada Posts: 7,213 Blog Entries: 1 Thanks: 843 Thanked 1,919 Times in 1,011 Posts	And waves, I also agree completely I was just trying to get a point across and be as general as possible. I'm well aware much of any philosophical musings I have are full of holes... But I am glad such holes can result in someone else voicing a truth such as that found in your last paragraph __________________ Step Back. Evaluate. Recognize. "All memory is really a form of regurgitation of undigested experience." -Alan Watts

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