Solipsism

Mescalito · 01-28-2010, 02:22 AM

Solipsism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

What do you think about this idea? What is existence and what exists? Is real really real? heh

M

**Bearsy** · 01-28-2010, 02:27 AM

We can harvest ideas from all different people from all different cultures, we can agree on reality, and we can keep learning where we're wrong. We can all keep adjusting, so we can really communicate.

**SageTree** · 01-28-2010, 12:17 PM

Basically this is where my understanding of the concept comes from.

The Mahayana "Two Truth Doctrine" (Relative and Ultimate Reality)
Which is also explained here with in the "Consciousness Only or Mind Only School" that is often synonymous with Yogacara Buddhism. And the underlying principle to these thoughts are "Dependant Origination" . Which is nicely summed up in:

Quote:

Everything affects everything else. Everything that is, is because other things are

I don't care to cut and paste much, but I also don't have a lot to say specifically and thought I'd point out some pages that I agree with, and would lay out some pointed application to what you are saying.

Quote:

Buddhism from the Solipsism Page.

The Buddha stated, "Within this fathom long body is the world, the origin of the world, the cessation of the world and the path leading to the cessation of the world." Whilst not rejecting the occurrence of external phenomena, the Buddha focused on the illusion created within the mind of the perceiver by the process of ascribing permanence to impermanent phenomena, satisfaction to unsatisfying experiences, and a sense of reality to things that were effectively insubstantial.

Mahayana Buddhism also challenged as illusion the idea that one can experience an 'objective' reality independent of individual perceiving minds.

According to the Sutra Prasangika view, external objects do exist, just not inherently: "Just as objects of mind do not exist [inherently], mind also does not exist [inherently]. "In other words, even though a chair may physically exist, individuals can only ever experience it through the medium of each their own mind, with each their own literal point-of-view. Therefore, an independent purely 'objective' reality could never be experienced.

Some later representatives of one Yogacara subschool (Prajnakaragupta, Ratnakirti) were proponents of extreme illusionism and solipsism (as well as of solipsism of this moment). The best example of such extreme ideas was the treatise of Ratnakirti (XI century) "Refutation of the existence of other minds" (Santanantara dusana).

Note: It is important to note that all mentioned Yogacara trends are not purely philosophical but religious–philosophi cal. All Yogacara discourse takes place within the religious and doctrinal dimension of Buddhism. It is also determined by the fundamental Buddhist problem, that is living being and its liberation from the bondage of Samsara.

verklingen · 01-28-2010, 12:56 PM

what it boils down to for me is that i don't really care whether any of you or anything else "out there" is real or not, what matters to me are the experiences i derive from it all. i mean come on. . . science fucking proves that there is no reality beyond the sight of an observer. experience is all there is. even if the external world is some psychic projection like a self-induced matrix, to call it unreal is to bring my own existence into question (ridiculous!).

and you know, thinking of the matrix. . . what makes a computer program any less real than our physical world? both are composed of data that follow certain instructions based upon the presence or absence of stimuli: 1's and 0's. light and dark. duality this duality that.

maybe you all are figments of my imagination. but you're real to me, dammit!

what's that? my duality is showing?

and that just proves the point that whatever existence actually is, we cannot adequately define it. at least i can't. i think it has to do with our definitions. some things simply defy definition; contain them and they bleed out the seams. things like existence and reality seem to be among them. it always comes down to the observer, the experiencer: and what he makes of it

shakeNbake06 · 02-03-2010, 07:07 PM

what if we're just a "brain in a vat" Brain in a vat - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

“Whatever I have accepted until now as most true has come to me through my senses. But occasionally I have found that they have deceived me, and it is unwise to trust completely those who have deceived us even once."

—René Descartes

"The "dream argument" is the postulation that the act of dreaming provides preliminary evidence that the senses we trust to distinguish reality from illusion should not be fully trusted, and therefore any state that is dependent on our senses should at the very least be carefully examined and rigorously tested to determine if it is in fact "reality.""

crazy stuff.. we can't even tell what's real, dammit

**~~SpankyMcLankey~~** · 02-03-2010, 09:25 PM

which brings up another point. just because we can't perceive something with all 5 sense(ghosts) doesn't mean they're not real.

01-28-2010, 02:22 AM	#1 (permalink)
Mescalito Space Cadet Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 6,146 Thanks: 638 Thanked 678 Times in 347 Posts	Solipsism Solipsism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia What do you think about this idea? What is existence and what exists? Is real really real? heh M __________________ Jungle Monkey

01-28-2010, 12:56 PM	#4 (permalink)
verklingen Radical Dreamer Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: texas Posts: 8,031 Thanks: 795 Thanked 1,470 Times in 940 Posts	what it boils down to for me is that i don't really care whether any of you or anything else "out there" is real or not, what matters to me are the experiences i derive from it all. i mean come on. . . science fucking proves that there is no reality beyond the sight of an observer. experience is all there is. even if the external world is some psychic projection like a self-induced matrix, to call it unreal is to bring my own existence into question (ridiculous!). and you know, thinking of the matrix. . . what makes a computer program any less real than our physical world? both are composed of data that follow certain instructions based upon the presence or absence of stimuli: 1's and 0's. light and dark. duality this duality that. maybe you all are figments of my imagination. but you're real to me, dammit! what's that? my duality is showing? and that just proves the point that whatever existence actually is, we cannot adequately define it. at least i can't. i think it has to do with our definitions. some things simply defy definition; contain them and they bleed out the seams. things like existence and reality seem to be among them. it always comes down to the observer, the experiencer: and what he makes of it __________________ “Be kind, for everyone you meet is fighting a hard battle.” rip matt

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02-03-2010, 07:07 PM	#5 (permalink)
shakeNbake06 Old School Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 368 Thanks: 21 Thanked 56 Times in 29 Posts	what if we're just a "brain in a vat" Brain in a vat - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia “Whatever I have accepted until now as most true has come to me through my senses. But occasionally I have found that they have deceived me, and it is unwise to trust completely those who have deceived us even once." —René Descartes "The "dream argument" is the postulation that the act of dreaming provides preliminary evidence that the senses we trust to distinguish reality from illusion should not be fully trusted, and therefore any state that is dependent on our senses should at the very least be carefully examined and rigorously tested to determine if it is in fact "reality."" crazy stuff.. we can't even tell what's real, dammit

02-03-2010, 09:25 PM	#6 (permalink)
~~SpankyMcLankey~~ Banned Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 3,310 Thanks: 1,748 Thanked 1,063 Times in 703 Posts	which brings up another point. just because we can't perceive something with all 5 sense(ghosts) doesn't mean they're not real.

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