Ram Dass Fierce Grace ( Biographical movie) - Page 2

**SageTree** · 04-07-2010, 12:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by antwom

^
The Buddha
Add to My Favorites
2 WGBH (PUBLIC TV) Wednesday, April 7 8:00 PM (Eastern Time)
Special, Documentary

Richard Gere narrates the life of the Buddha.

Original Air Date: Apr 07, 2010

That's cool man. I'm in Canada and am not sure how soon that will be turning up on youtube

.... I'll go do some searching right now to see if there is any playing or the like up in these parts. No TV in our house so it isn't like if I find a local listing I could watch it anyways.

So I guess thanks for the heads up

I'll see what I can find.

**SageTree** · 04-07-2010, 12:05 PM

The Buddha | PBS ^^

**SageTree** · 04-08-2010, 01:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kitch

The Dalai Lama was more specific in a meeting with Buddhist leaders and human rights activists in San Francisco in 1997, where he commented that all forms of sex other than penile-vaginal sex are prohibited for Buddhists, whether between heterosexuals or homosexuals. At a press conference the day before the meeting, he said, "From a Buddhist point of view, [gay sex] is generally considered sexual misconduct." But he did note that this rule is for Buddhists, and from society's viewpoint, homosexual relationships can be "of mutual benefit, enjoyable, and harmless." [6]

Hey Brother a thought came to me after I posted above and am just getting this out now after work.

We have talked about this quote before on Facebook, and you perhaps remember I talked a little about context of the question/answer, past reasonings etc... so I don't want to rehash that.

What is on my mind is that perhaps I took this quote out of context and placed some emotion on it. When we talked to me it came off as a critical remark and I was a little defensive but hope I was fair with adding my displeasure over the comments themselves from HHDL.

This came to me when I read this thread: The Real Dalai Lama, where, imo, I gather you really like this man.

This is what made me reflect on wanting to ask you to clarify these two points, which seemed divergent at first. My second thoughts were maybe this is a person, dare i say path, that kitch would really like to read/know more about and these comments make him really uncomfortable and doubtful/hopeless of where to look because that even the best and kindest of leaders still carries these ideas of bigotry.

Posit please, I am interested and also would like to apologize if I've sounded unfair or bias in talking about any Buddhist matters.

In loving kindness,
SageTree

kitch · 04-08-2010, 09:18 AM

I am a spiritual free agent sage, I dunno how else to put it, yeah I'm looking for something beyond earthly consciousness I suppose.

**SageTree** · 04-08-2010, 10:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kitch

I am a spiritual free agent sage, I dunno how else to put it, yeah I'm looking for something beyond earthly consciousness I suppose.

That really doesn't answer my question very well man

You don't have to tell me your in the closet for HHDL and youre bummed he doesn't want to get freaky.

But I think there has to be something between the two posts besides a one liner.

hijabihippie · 04-08-2010, 10:15 AM

I watched it last night. Awesome!

kitch · 04-08-2010, 10:17 AM

I believe the dalai lama is a holy person, so are lots of people. I do however believe there's beings a lot more holy that humans have access to. Going into details about that gets kinda grandiose and preachy so I won't, but the fact is I don't worship any human.

hijabihippie · 04-08-2010, 10:22 AM

"There is no god but God."

**SageTree** · 04-08-2010, 10:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kitch

I believe the dalai lama is a holy person, so are lots of people. I do however believe there's beings a lot more holy that humans have access to. Going into details about that gets kinda grandiose and preachy so I won't, but the fact is I don't worship any human.

Fair enough. Is there a difference between worshiped and revered?

This IS higher thoughts Brother and it's ok to be preachy. This forum is often different in not making people defend what they say. And if someone is asking you, then I'd say it's fair game. What I enjoy about YaHooka is that it's a place where we can literally see out thoughts and there is something very cognitively special about that.

In Kind
Sage

kitch · 04-08-2010, 10:41 AM

my internal definitions
revered: placed in esteem, some one you feel like you should try to be more like

worship: recognizing that there are forces out of your control which, for the most part you don't even understand, like I'd say I worship life and music and the earth.

However I do think there are creatures who are more spiritually advanced than any human, buddha or avatar or christ or what have you, I dunno if they're aliens or what but I get the impression of organic consciousness punctuated with a kind of inhuman spiritual energy. I dunno if this is why people believe in angels, it might be. Maybe dragons too.

edit: the reason for that last paragraph is to explain how I felt about people worshipping dieties, I feel like they get the wrong impression. Although the hindu philosphy is not a bad one. I like the hanuman stories.

**SageTree** · 04-08-2010, 10:58 AM

Thanks Kitch for the answer. So which does the HHDL get from people? Fair enough to think both, I feel.

The teacher in Buddhism is to be regarded not as a person or who they are, but as a literal embodiment of the Dharma, passed down through linage, ideally I say .

Like the statue of the Buddha isn't to be worshiped but rather seen as a marker of mindfulness and reverence. The Dharma is what's worshiped in this case, which that translates to Eternal Law or Truth and that is where things get a little more heady.

I think Buddha didn't talk about a lot of things because certainties are subjective.

This is a really good example and why I think there are intentional paradoxes in the teaching. And what the idea of the koan is about, pondering the imponderable.

Quote:

Once it happened: Buddha entered a village. A man asked him as he was entering the village, "Does God exist?" He said, "No, absolutely no."

In the afternoon another man came and he asked, "Does God exist?" And he said, "Yes, absolutely yes."

In the evening a third man came and he asked, "Does God exist?" Buddha closed his eyes and remained utterly silent. The man also closed his eyes. Something transpired in that silence. After a few minutes the man touched Buddha's feet, bowed down, paid his respects and said, "You are the first man who has answered my question."

Now, Buddha's attendant, Ananda, was very much puzzled: "In the morning he said no, in the afternoon he said yes, in the evening he did not answer at all. What is the matter? What is really the truth?"

So when Buddha was going to sleep, Ananda said, "First you answer me; otherwise I will not be able to sleep. You have to be a little more compassionate towards me too. I have been with you the whole day. Those three people don't know about the other answers, but I have heard all the three answers. What about me? I am troubled."

Buddha said, "I was not talking to you at all! You had not asked, I had not answered YOU. The first man who came was a theist, the second man who came was an atheist, the third man who came was an agnostic. My answer had nothing to do with God, my answer had something to do with the questioner. I was answering the questioner; it was absolutely unconcerned with God.

"The person who believes in God, I will say no to him because I want him to drop his idea of God, I want him to be free of his idea of God -- which is borrowed. He has not experienced. If he had experienced he would not have asked me; there would have been no need.

"The person who believed in God, he was trying to find confirmation for his belief from me. I was not going to say yes to him -- I am not going to confirm anybody's belief. I had to say no, I had to deny, just to destroy his belief, because all beliefs are barriers to knowing the truth. Theist or atheist, all beliefs, Hindu or Christian or Mohammedan, all beliefs are barriers.

"And the person with whom I remained silent was the right inquirer. He had no belief, hence there was no question of destroying anything. I kept silent. That was my message to him: Be silent and know. Don't ask, there is no need to ask. It is not a question which can be answered. It is not an inquiry but a quest, a thirst. Be silent and know.

I had answered him also; through my silence I gave him the message and he immediately followed it -- he also became silent. I closed my eyes, he closed his eyes; I looked in, he looked in, and then something transpired. That's why he was so much overwhelmed, he felt so much gratitude, for the simple reason that I did not give him any intellectual answer. He had not come for any intellectual answer; intellectual answers are available very cheap. He needed something existential -- he needed a taste. I gave him a taste."

In that searching I found this article that had an ring to it. Does God exist in Burmese Buddhism?

Quote:

While growing up, I always equated the Burmese word shi-kho with English ‘worship,’ which I thought was its closest equivalent. When I actually looked up shi-kho recently, it is defined as “to do obeisance; to pay homage.” Whenever my parents would say Phaya shi-kho or ‘Pay homage to Buddha,’ I would inherently think I was worshiping Buddha, like Christians would to God. This may be because I grew up in the U.S. and what I saw all around me, made me want to find parallels in my own life. I probably fooled myself into thinking that Buddha chose who to punish (like the cartoons that showed God choosing who went through the pearly gates of heaven), especially when I would pray “Andaye kin, bay shin” or literally “Be free from dangers and clear of harm’s way.” I remember in the third grade, a presumably Christian girl taunted me for being Buddhist, that “Behind Buddha is the Devil,” something I will never forget. Maybe she assumed that all Buddhists worship Buddha as God (as some Mahayana Buddhists do) or that I was idolatrous. I guess in a way, I was a naive kid. It didn’t help that a variety of Burmese phrases like “Phaya ma lo”rough equivalent “Thank God!”) or “Phaya mo gyo pyit” rough equivalent “I swear to God”) that led me to assume Buddha is God.

End preachy/

**SageTree** · 04-08-2010, 11:21 AM

Response to Edit:

Hinduism is super interesting and from my mind seems like it is very personal, which is why there are 9 bazillion deities, each one a manifestation or 'gods attributes' and a way to connect with It. Much like some people have a favourite name of Allah, who has 99 official names, the word, image etc touches them deeply, and then becomes a marker in which to come to that space/place in one's being. While Buddha does range from God to Man, with in Buddhism, Jesus Christ has much the same story openly, until Constantine/Nicaean Creed and others, when the Arianists were run out of town via 'heresy'.

I can only speak from my experience and Buddha's teaching of the Dharma touches the best explanation for me on how to get to the levels of consciousness, in which the larger wordlessness of the experience is opened up. And why it then becomes easy, I feel, to see that essence in other texts writings or cut to the core of beliefs more easily.

Buddha said it well when he stated 'we all want happiness, we all want peace and safety' And 'we are the only ones responsible for out salvation because ultimately at some point the concepts (worded teachings) are laid aside and we live in their awareness.'

In the end, I honestly believe everyone is pretty much describing the same thing, there are just a lot of ways to get there. And I never mean to imply one way is better than another. Individually, perhaps, collectively no.

antwom · 04-08-2010, 11:42 AM

Remember,too, that while we try to conceptualize consciousness, we are still dealing with the limitations of the mind. Intellect is a lower state of awareness. Mind can take you to bliss and possibly Sach Khan, but that's about it. It still resides in the lower worlds and controls all those worlds beneath it. The mind can take you to the heavens that the religions write about, but still resides in the worlds of duality. That which watches, with detachment, (vairag) the experiences we go thru in both the physical and dream state is not mind. Mind is always tied to the 5 passions (anger,lust,greed,en vy,attachment). That which watches (RamDass called it "the witness") our anger,greed,etc with DETACHMENT is what we could call Soul.

I think Penn and Teller may explain it a little better.

**SageTree** · 04-08-2010, 11:51 AM

Thanks antwom.

This is one of my favourite doctrines and touches on what you were talking about I believe. Again, it's all words and such for the sake of learning, but the truths don't change because the words can

Two Truths

Other reading that integrates this is 'Dependent origination' and 'Emptiness' as presented from the Yogachara/Madhyamaka vantage point, which aren't exclusive to Mahayana and are expounded on from The Pali texts. There is something, imo, to be said for the cut and dry as well as philosophical rabbit holes.

It all harkens back to the two truths idea of wanting to express the inexpressible and keeping that in mind while investigating.

Lloydy · 04-08-2010, 04:33 PM

i thought the title said something else. ill just leave now

**SageTree** · 04-08-2010, 11:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lloydy

i thought the title said something else. ill just leave now

Come back and tell me what you thought it said.!!!!!!

!!!!!!!!!!!1

**SageTree** · 08-09-2011, 11:40 AM

Bump... good movie.

04-07-2010, 12:05 PM	#22 (permalink)
SageTree ~Kalyāṇa-mitrā~ Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: In Love Posts: 23,414 Blog Entries: 26 Thanks: 13,070 Thanked 6,769 Times in 4,664 Posts	The Buddha \| PBS ^^ __________________ "What's oppressive is letting your life be confined by old definitions of what everything is." -Zen Meister my_scatterheart YaHooka is.... Cannabis lovers from around the world pulling up a comfy chair, picking up a vaporizer, a bong, a brownie, a pipe, or a joint, getting high, stoned, buzzed or healthy. Uniting our minds in conversation...While Portraying a Positive Image of marijuana and marijuana users to the world. Treat your fellow YaHookans with kindness,respect and tolerance.

04-08-2010, 11:21 AM	#32 (permalink)
SageTree ~Kalyāṇa-mitrā~ Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: In Love Posts: 23,414 Blog Entries: 26 Thanks: 13,070 Thanked 6,769 Times in 4,664 Posts	Response to Edit: Hinduism is super interesting and from my mind seems like it is very personal, which is why there are 9 bazillion deities, each one a manifestation or 'gods attributes' and a way to connect with It. Much like some people have a favourite name of Allah, who has 99 official names, the word, image etc touches them deeply, and then becomes a marker in which to come to that space/place in one's being. While Buddha does range from God to Man, with in Buddhism, Jesus Christ has much the same story openly, until Constantine/Nicaean Creed and others, when the Arianists were run out of town via 'heresy'. I can only speak from my experience and Buddha's teaching of the Dharma touches the best explanation for me on how to get to the levels of consciousness, in which the larger wordlessness of the experience is opened up. And why it then becomes easy, I feel, to see that essence in other texts writings or cut to the core of beliefs more easily. Buddha said it well when he stated 'we all want happiness, we all want peace and safety' And 'we are the only ones responsible for out salvation because ultimately at some point the concepts (worded teachings) are laid aside and we live in their awareness.' In the end, I honestly believe everyone is pretty much describing the same thing, there are just a lot of ways to get there. And I never mean to imply one way is better than another. Individually, perhaps, collectively no. __________________ "What's oppressive is letting your life be confined by old definitions of what everything is." -Zen Meister my_scatterheart YaHooka is.... Cannabis lovers from around the world pulling up a comfy chair, picking up a vaporizer, a bong, a brownie, a pipe, or a joint, getting high, stoned, buzzed or healthy. Uniting our minds in conversation...While Portraying a Positive Image of marijuana and marijuana users to the world. Treat your fellow YaHookans with kindness,respect and tolerance.

04-08-2010, 11:51 AM	#34 (permalink)
SageTree ~Kalyāṇa-mitrā~ Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: In Love Posts: 23,414 Blog Entries: 26 Thanks: 13,070 Thanked 6,769 Times in 4,664 Posts	Thanks antwom. This is one of my favourite doctrines and touches on what you were talking about I believe. Again, it's all words and such for the sake of learning, but the truths don't change because the words can Two Truths Other reading that integrates this is 'Dependent origination' and 'Emptiness' as presented from the Yogachara/Madhyamaka vantage point, which aren't exclusive to Mahayana and are expounded on from The Pali texts. There is something, imo, to be said for the cut and dry as well as philosophical rabbit holes. It all harkens back to the two truths idea of wanting to express the inexpressible and keeping that in mind while investigating. __________________ "What's oppressive is letting your life be confined by old definitions of what everything is." -Zen Meister my_scatterheart YaHooka is.... Cannabis lovers from around the world pulling up a comfy chair, picking up a vaporizer, a bong, a brownie, a pipe, or a joint, getting high, stoned, buzzed or healthy. Uniting our minds in conversation...While Portraying a Positive Image of marijuana and marijuana users to the world. Treat your fellow YaHookans with kindness,respect and tolerance. Last edited by SageTree; 04-08-2010 at 11:59 AM.

04-08-2010, 04:33 PM	#35 (permalink)
Lloydy KTF Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: England Posts: 11,976 Thanks: 533 Thanked 2,479 Times in 1,140 Posts	i thought the title said something else. ill just leave now __________________ Keep the red flag flying high

08-09-2011, 11:40 AM	#37 (permalink)
SageTree ~Kalyāṇa-mitrā~ Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: In Love Posts: 23,414 Blog Entries: 26 Thanks: 13,070 Thanked 6,769 Times in 4,664 Posts	Bump... good movie. __________________ "What's oppressive is letting your life be confined by old definitions of what everything is." -Zen Meister my_scatterheart YaHooka is.... Cannabis lovers from around the world pulling up a comfy chair, picking up a vaporizer, a bong, a brownie, a pipe, or a joint, getting high, stoned, buzzed or healthy. Uniting our minds in conversation...While Portraying a Positive Image of marijuana and marijuana users to the world. Treat your fellow YaHookans with kindness,respect and tolerance.

04-08-2010, 10:15 AM	#26 (permalink)
hijabihippie YaHookan Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 1,481 Thanks: 1,152 Thanked 655 Times in 515 Posts	I watched it last night. Awesome!

04-08-2010, 10:22 AM	#28 (permalink)
hijabihippie YaHookan Join Date: Jun 2009 Posts: 1,481 Thanks: 1,152 Thanked 655 Times in 515 Posts	"There is no god but God."

04-08-2010, 11:42 AM	#33 (permalink)
antwom YaHookan Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: ATL Posts: 103 Thanks: 13 Thanked 18 Times in 19 Posts	Remember,too, that while we try to conceptualize consciousness, we are still dealing with the limitations of the mind. Intellect is a lower state of awareness. Mind can take you to bliss and possibly Sach Khan, but that's about it. It still resides in the lower worlds and controls all those worlds beneath it. The mind can take you to the heavens that the religions write about, but still resides in the worlds of duality. That which watches, with detachment, (vairag) the experiences we go thru in both the physical and dream state is not mind. Mind is always tied to the 5 passions (anger,lust,greed,en vy,attachment). That which watches (RamDass called it "the witness") our anger,greed,etc with DETACHMENT is what we could call Soul. I think Penn and Teller may explain it a little better.

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