Ram Dass Fierce Grace ( Biographical movie)

**SageTree** · 04-06-2010, 01:31 PM

Just wanted to share something I watched parts of today, I found it in sections all over, but here finally is the whole thing. Hope you enjoy this interesting teachers story.

Now I can't wait to see it linearly

Quote:

Ram Dass Fierce Grace is a 2002 American biographical film, directed by Mickey Lemle. It tells the story of Dr. Richard Albert's transformation from Harvard psychology professor to spiritual student/devotee and back again to teacher from the perspective of his massive stroke. Named by Newsweek as one of the "Top Five Non-Fiction Films" of 2002, Ram Dass Fierce Grace offers an engrossing, poignant meditation on consciousness, healing and the unexpected grace of aging.[1]

The film begins in the present, as Ram Dass deals with the effects of a massive stroke that left him physically incapacitated, with impaired memory and speech. Interweaving interviews with fellow devotees of Indian guru and saint Neem Karoli Baba archival footage, Lemle looks back at his privileged childhood, the controversy surrounding his research in psychedelics at Harvard, his pilgrimage to India and devotion to Neem Karoli Baba, his work with the Seva Foundation in social action projects dedicated to relieving suffering in the world, and his impact as an author and guru to millions of followers.

Ram Dass - Fierce Grace (2001)

EDIT: IF THIS VID DOESNT WORK.
Clicking 'watch this vid'
click 'go to host website'
All this can be searched from surfthechannel.com under 'ram dass fierce grace'

In Loving Kindness,
SageTree

kitch · 04-06-2010, 01:34 PM

did he finally go back and ask the guru what happened when he dropped acid? Be Here Now would rock if he had actually done that instead f just being like whatevs.

**SageTree** · 04-06-2010, 01:37 PM

Like I said I watched it in parts so far. Now I'm headed to work soon so maybe I'll watch the whole thing tonight before bed.

antwom · 04-06-2010, 03:10 PM

Some say his spiritual leadership may have been questioned after revealing his homosexuality.

Waves · 04-06-2010, 03:18 PM

those people are missing the point of his message entirely

if you consider yourself spiritually advanced yet you still discriminate against someone because of their choice in sexuality i would say that in fact, his message has flown right over your head

great movie cant wait to check it out

antwom · 04-06-2010, 03:58 PM

Waves ?

YouTube - Wavy Gravy on Ram Dass

Waves · 04-06-2010, 04:23 PM

waves is one of my favs

The Rev · 04-06-2010, 05:02 PM

He reminds me of my wife's and my marriage counseller.

The Rev

antwom · 04-06-2010, 05:12 PM

Gravy approved :

YouTube - Natural LSD Trip

Don't forget to use full screen and look away at the end. Walls will melt.

kitch · 04-07-2010, 06:34 AM

The Dalai Lama was more specific in a meeting with Buddhist leaders and human rights activists in San Francisco in 1997, where he commented that all forms of sex other than penile-vaginal sex are prohibited for Buddhists, whether between heterosexuals or homosexuals. At a press conference the day before the meeting, he said, "From a Buddhist point of view, [gay sex] is generally considered sexual misconduct." But he did note that this rule is for Buddhists, and from society's viewpoint, homosexual relationships can be "of mutual benefit, enjoyable, and harmless." [6]

kitch · 04-07-2010, 06:35 AM

also what do people think of the Richard Alpert charecter on Lost? Having him be one of the 2 people on the show named after an actual person seems like a strong statement, I just can't figure out what that statement is.

The Rev · 04-07-2010, 06:35 AM

I don't remember anything in the 8-fold path prohibiting gay sex. Sure, it's very specific about no fat chicks, but there's nothing in there about man-on-man action.

The Rev

antwom · 04-07-2010, 08:28 AM

The "no fat chicks" clause was amended after the rise of the southern black churches.

**SageTree** · 04-07-2010, 11:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kitch

The Dalai Lama was more specific in a meeting with Buddhist leaders and human rights activists in San Francisco in 1997, where he commented that all forms of sex other than penile-vaginal sex are prohibited for Buddhists, whether between heterosexuals or homosexuals. At a press conference the day before the meeting, he said, "From a Buddhist point of view, [gay sex] is generally considered sexual misconduct." But he did note that this rule is for Buddhists, and from society's viewpoint, homosexual relationships can be "of mutual benefit, enjoyable, and harmless." [6]

Where is that quote from [6]?

*processing processing......*

Here it is at the bottom of the article:

Full article

Quote:

Homosexuality and Buddhism

Buddhism has three main branches: Theravada, the oldest form of Buddhism that emphasizes the monastic life; Mahayana Buddhism, a later form that includes Pure Land, Zen, Nichiren, and other sects; and Vajrayana, a unique form that arose in India and Tibet and is led by the Dalai Lama.

Though they share a common heritage, each of these branches has a somewhat different view of the way life should be lived in general and are thus treated separately in the article that follows.

Homosexuality in Buddhist Scriptures and Theravada Buddhism

Theravada Buddhism is most commonly found in Southeast Asia, and focuses on the original teachings of the Buddha. In Theravada Buddhism, there are two main ways of life: the life of the monk and the life of the lay person (i.e. ordinary person with a job, a family, a home, etc.)

Buddhist monks are expected to live lives of celibacy, meaning abstinence from any type of sex. There is no explicit rule prohibiting those with a homosexual orientation from monastic life. [1] However, in the Vinaya, the Buddha is recorded as opposing the ordination of those who openly expressed cross-gender features [2] or strong homosexual desires and actions [7]. The Buddhist sacred texts do contain a great deal of instances of loving relationships between unmarried men, which some believe to have homoerotic overtones. No sexual contact is mentioned in these instances, however. [1]

Lay Buddhists (those who live outside the monastery) are expected to adhere to Five Precepts, the third of which is a vow "not to engage in sexual misconduct." But what is sexual misconduct? Right and wrong behavior in Buddhism is generally determined by considerations such as the following:

* Universalibility principle - "How would I like it if someone did this to me?"
* Consequences - Does the act causes harm and regret (in oneself or others) or benefit and joy?
* Utilitarian principle - Will the act help or harm the attainment of goals (ultimately spiritual liberation)?
* Intention - Is the act motivated by love, generosity and understanding?

"Sexual misconduct" has thus traditionally been interpreted to include actions like coercive sex, sexual harassment, child molestation and adultery. As Homosexuality is not explicitly mentioned in any of the Buddha's sayings recorded in the Pali Canon (Tripitaka), most interpreters have taken this to mean that homosexuality should be evaluated in the same way as heterosexuality, in accordance with the above principles.

A Buddhist author of an article on homosexuality concludes:

In the case of the lay man and woman where there is mutual consent, where adultery is not involved and where the sexual act is an expression of love, respect, loyalty and warmth, it would not be breaking the third Precept. And it is the same when the two people are of the same gender. Likewise promiscuity, license and the disregard for the feelings of others would make a sexual act unskillful whether it be heterosexual or homosexual. All the principles we would use to evaluate a heterosexual relationship we would also use to evaluate a homosexual one. In Buddhism we could say that it is not the object of one's sexual desire that determines whether a sexual act is unskillful or not, but rather the quality of the emotions and intentions involved. [1]

It is also worth noting that Buddhism does not traditionally place great value on procreation like many western religions. From the Buddhist viewpoint, being married with children is regarded as generally positive, but not compulsory (although social norms in various Buddhist countries often have different views). [3]

Despite all this, in practice, Theravada Buddhist countries are not terribly open to homosexual practice. This has much to do with cultural norms, as well as the notion of karma, which remains strong in countries such as Thailand. From this viewpoint, a person's characteristics and situations are a result of past sins or good deeds. Homosexuality and other alternative forms of sexuality are often seen as karmic punishments for heterosexual misconduct in a past life. Thus far, the gay rights movement has not had great success in Theravada Buddhist countries. [7]

Homosexuality in Vajrayana/Tibetan Buddhism

In a 1997 interview, the Dalai Lama (the leader of Tibetan Buddhism and a widely-respected spiritual figure) was asked about homosexuality. He did not offer any strong answer either way, but noted that all monks are expected to refrain from sex. For laypeople, he commented that the purpose of sex in general is for procreation, so homosexual acts do seem a bit unnatural. He said that sexual desires in themselves are natural, perhaps including homosexual desires, but that one should not try to increase those desires or indulge them without self-control. [4]

In a 1993 talk given in Seattle, the Dalai Lama said:

nature arranged male and female organs "in such a manner that is very suitable... Same-sex organs cannot manage well." But he stopped short of condemning homosexual relationships altogether, saying if two people agree to enter a relationship that is not sexually abusive, "then I don't know. It's difficult to say." [5]

The Dalai Lama was more specific in a meeting with Buddhist leaders and human rights activists in San Francisco in 1997, where he commented that all forms of sex other than penile-vaginal sex are prohibited for Buddhists, whether between heterosexuals or homosexuals. At a press conference the day before the meeting, he said, "From a Buddhist point of view, [gay sex] is generally considered sexual misconduct." But he did note that this rule is for Buddhists, and from society's viewpoint, homosexual relationships can be "of mutual benefit, enjoyable, and harmless." [6]

The Dalai Lama is well known for his activism for human rights, and this specifically includes equal rights for gays. According to an Office of Tibet spokeman, "His Holiness opposes violence and discrimination based on sexual orientation. He urges respect, tolerance, compassion, and the full recognition of human rights for all." [6]

Quote:

Sexuality

In his view, oral, manual and anal sex (both homosexual and heterosexual) is not acceptable in Buddhism or for Buddhists, but society should tolerate gays and lesbians from a secular point of view. In 1997 he explained that the basis of that teaching was unknown to him and that he at least had some "willingness to consider the possibility that some of the teachings may be specific to a particular cultural and historic context" while reiterating the unacceptable nature saying, "Buddhist sexual proscriptions ban homosexual activity and heterosexual sex through orifices other than the vagina, including masturbation or other sexual activity with the hand... From a Buddhist point of view, lesbian and gay sex is generally considered sexual misconduct". In a 1994 interview with OUT Magazine, the Dalai Lama explained "If someone comes to me and asks whether homosexuality is okay or not, I will ask 'What is your companion's opinion?'. If you both agree, then I think I would say 'if two males or two females voluntarily agree to have mutual satisfaction without further implication of harming others, then it is okay'". However, in his 1996 book Beyond Dogma, he clearly states, "A sexual act is deemed proper when the couples use the organs intended for sexual intercourse and nothing else....Homosexualit y, whether it is between men or between women, is not improper in itself. What is improper is the use of organs already defined as inappropriate for sexual contact." He has said that sex spelled fleeting satisfaction and trouble later, while chastity offered a better life and "more independence, more freedom." He says that problems arising from conjugal life could even lead to suicide or murder.

Waves · 04-07-2010, 11:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kitch

The Dalai Lama was more specific in a meeting with Buddhist leaders and human rights activists in San Francisco in 1997, where he commented that all forms of sex other than penile-vaginal sex are prohibited for Buddhists, whether between heterosexuals or homosexuals. At a press conference the day before the meeting, he said, "From a Buddhist point of view, [gay sex] is generally considered sexual misconduct." But he did note that this rule is for Buddhists, and from society's viewpoint, homosexual relationships can be "of mutual benefit, enjoyable, and harmless." [6]

richard alpert/ram dass is not a buddhist hes hindu

hes a baba

i dont even know if he considers himself a traditional hindu practitioner either. i consider him on a level even above the dalai lama personally. especially if the dalai lama is saying such discriminatory stuff like this...

Waves · 04-07-2010, 11:28 AM

Quote:

nature arranged male and female organs "in such a manner that is very suitable... Same-sex organs cannot manage well." But he stopped short of condemning homosexual relationships altogether, saying if two people agree to enter a relationship that is not sexually abusive, "then I don't know. It's difficult to say." [5]

Woah woah woah!

A religious leader admitting he DOESNT KNOW something?

blasphemy!

but again i dont know why we're even discussing this because ram dass wasnt a buddhist

antwom · 04-07-2010, 11:33 AM

The Ram Dass practised Kundalini yoga :

"Kundalini practice concentrates on awakening the energy at the base of the spine and drawing it upward. In addition to postures, a typical class will also include chanting, meditation, and breathing exercises."

antwom · 04-07-2010, 11:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Waves

Woah woah woah!

A religious leader admitting he DOESNT KNOW something?

blasphemy!

[B]but again i dont know why we're even discussing this because ram dass wasnt a buddhist

[/B
Yes, how did this roll into the dalai lama again ?

**SageTree** · 04-07-2010, 11:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Waves

Woah woah woah!

A religious leader admitting he DOESNT KNOW something?

blasphemy!

but again i dont know why we're even discussing this because ram dass wasnt a buddhist

Thanks Waves, I was just going down the rabbit hole here appropriately enough in a Dass thread.

Buddha is the 9 avatar of Vishnu and is revered at the 'avatar of wisdom', with in Hinduism and for instance Krishna, was Vishnu, in the form of the 'avatar of love'. The Upanishads from the area where Buddha taught are much different from after his life. Think Catholic Counter Reformation of something like that.

Vishnu's Avataras
Gautama Buddha in Hinduism

So, Buddha isn't an irrelevant character in this saga and don't really know what the HHDL has to do with it?

antwom · 04-07-2010, 11:58 AM

^
The Buddha
Add to My Favorites
2 WGBH (PUBLIC TV) Wednesday, April 7 8:00 PM (Eastern Time)
Special, Documentary

Richard Gere narrates the life of the Buddha.

Original Air Date: Apr 07, 2010

04-06-2010, 01:37 PM	#3 (permalink)
SageTree ~Kalyāṇa-mitrā~ Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: In Love Posts: 23,414 Blog Entries: 26 Thanks: 13,070 Thanked 6,769 Times in 4,664 Posts	Like I said I watched it in parts so far. Now I'm headed to work soon so maybe I'll watch the whole thing tonight before bed. __________________ "What's oppressive is letting your life be confined by old definitions of what everything is." -Zen Meister my_scatterheart YaHooka is.... Cannabis lovers from around the world pulling up a comfy chair, picking up a vaporizer, a bong, a brownie, a pipe, or a joint, getting high, stoned, buzzed or healthy. Uniting our minds in conversation...While Portraying a Positive Image of marijuana and marijuana users to the world. Treat your fellow YaHookans with kindness,respect and tolerance.

04-06-2010, 03:18 PM	#5 (permalink)
Waves Duderino Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: chiburbs Posts: 15,405 Thanks: 991 Thanked 4,036 Times in 2,224 Posts	those people are missing the point of his message entirely if you consider yourself spiritually advanced yet you still discriminate against someone because of their choice in sexuality i would say that in fact, his message has flown right over your head great movie cant wait to check it out __________________ On this life that we call home The years go fast and the days go so slow

04-06-2010, 04:23 PM	#7 (permalink)
Waves Duderino Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: chiburbs Posts: 15,405 Thanks: 991 Thanked 4,036 Times in 2,224 Posts	waves is one of my favs __________________ On this life that we call home The years go fast and the days go so slow

04-06-2010, 05:02 PM	#8 (permalink)
The Rev Clear Light Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: In my head, somewhere. Posts: 17,867 Thanks: 5,019 Thanked 5,421 Times in 2,865 Posts	He reminds me of my wife's and my marriage counseller. The Rev __________________ Budforce - My Friend August 29, 1973- May 25, 2012

04-07-2010, 06:35 AM	#12 (permalink)
The Rev Clear Light Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: In my head, somewhere. Posts: 17,867 Thanks: 5,019 Thanked 5,421 Times in 2,865 Posts	I don't remember anything in the 8-fold path prohibiting gay sex. Sure, it's very specific about no fat chicks, but there's nothing in there about man-on-man action. The Rev __________________ Budforce - My Friend August 29, 1973- May 25, 2012

04-06-2010, 03:10 PM	#4 (permalink)
antwom YaHookan Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: ATL Posts: 103 Thanks: 13 Thanked 18 Times in 19 Posts	Some say his spiritual leadership may have been questioned after revealing his homosexuality.

04-07-2010, 08:28 AM	#13 (permalink)
antwom YaHookan Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: ATL Posts: 103 Thanks: 13 Thanked 18 Times in 19 Posts	The "no fat chicks" clause was amended after the rise of the southern black churches.

04-07-2010, 11:33 AM	#17 (permalink)
antwom YaHookan Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: ATL Posts: 103 Thanks: 13 Thanked 18 Times in 19 Posts	The Ram Dass practised Kundalini yoga : "Kundalini practice concentrates on awakening the energy at the base of the spine and drawing it upward. In addition to postures, a typical class will also include chanting, meditation, and breathing exercises."

04-07-2010, 11:58 AM	#20 (permalink)
antwom YaHookan Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: ATL Posts: 103 Thanks: 13 Thanked 18 Times in 19 Posts	^ The Buddha Add to My Favorites 2 WGBH (PUBLIC TV) Wednesday, April 7 8:00 PM (Eastern Time) Special, Documentary Richard Gere narrates the life of the Buddha. Original Air Date: Apr 07, 2010

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