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Rubix 07-04-2010 12:55 AM

Bible quotes
 
Hi everyone.

As many of you know, as per my bible thread a month back, my mom is a strict believer of the bible (New Testament). Well, I thought I would create a thread and every week give ya'll a bible quote, or two or three. There are many that stand out that I would like to get some feedback on as well as what you would say to my mom if she caught you sinning and quoted these excerpts.

I am on the verge of saying I am an atheist but I'm just unsure.

I was about to put this on FFA but decided I want to keep a clean thread with open arguments.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matthew 5:32 Kings James
But I say unto you, That whosoever shall put away his wife, saving for the cause of fornication, causeth her to commit adultery: and whosoever shall marry her that is divorced committeth adultery.

My mom's belief: A married must only cease if one sleeps around.

My thoughts: If you get slapped around and beat up you will also be committing adultery even if you spoke disapproving of such divorce proceedings?

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1st Timothy 4:3 King James
Forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth.

Doesn't sound like God meant to create nuns
comments?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Psalm 92:3, King James
Upon an instrument of ten strings, and upon the psaltery; upon the harp with a solemn sound.

My mom: Translation: Anything that is fast paced and would be danced to is not what Jesus would listen to.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Genesis 1:22 King James
And God blessed them, saying, Be fruitful, and multiply, and fill the waters in the seas, and let fowl multiply in the earth.

So, this means birth control is wrong since you're controlling what God intended with a marriage?

What bible quotes do you have to share and discuss?

Thanks guys and gals

Dantastic 07-04-2010 09:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rubix (Post 51931952)
Hi everyone.

As many of you know, as per my bible thread a month back, my mom is a strict believer of the bible (New Testament). Well, I thought I would create a thread and every week give ya'll a bible quote, or two or three. There are many that stand out that I would like to get some feedback on as well as what you would say to my mom if she caught you sinning and quoted these excerpts.

I am on the verge of saying I am an atheist but I'm just unsure.

I was about to put this on FFA but decided I want to keep a clean thread with open arguments.



My mom's belief: A married must only cease if one sleeps around.

My thoughts: If you get slapped around and beat up you will also be committing adultery even if you spoke disapproving of such divorce proceedings?



Doesn't sound like God meant to create nuns
comments?



My mom: Translation: Anything that is fast paced and would be danced to is not what Jesus would listen to.



So, this means birth control is wrong since you're controlling what God intended with a marriage?

What bible quotes do you have to share and discuss?

Thanks guys and gals

Rubix, im a little upset when I quote you, all your Bible quotes go away, someone needs to fix that in the board cuz its making this very difficult to respond to properly.

But I hope youll take the time to read this as im going to put more effort into it than I do most posts, simply because your mother is driving you away from God, and its very sad to see.

Lets see if I can help with some of these ok, because the word of God is sharper than any two edged sword and if you know how to use it properly, your mother wont be able to take this stuff out of context without you being able to atleast respond with someone other than you dont believe in God.

Like this for instance.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matthew 5:32 Kings James
But I say unto you, That whosoever shall put away his wife, saving for the cause of fornication, causeth her to commit adultery: and whosoever shall marry her that is divorced committeth adultery.
The Jews had fearfully perverted one of the political statutes of the Law, so that divorces were granted on the most frivolous pretenses, and it was this our Lord here condemned. Thus, in reality, He was continuing to restore the seventh commandment to its proper place and perfections.

Does your mother not know that he was also talking about the law of God as it pertains to sin and man. Jesus often spoke in parables. I am doing a study on the book of Romans right now and the teacher brought up a similar passage, because people mistakenly think it for directions on marriage only. It is directions for marriage to Christ. Yes it is the way God would have things but we are sinners. Sinful passions were aroused in us by the law, its simply a way to show us we are sinners and in need of sanctification. It CANT save us to follow the law, thats what Christ is for. We should be living in the spirit and not the oldness of the letter.

We are set free from the law by Christ, who died for us. So getting lost in legalism is blasphemy in a way.

Lets go on, how bout this gem?

Quote:

Originally Posted by 1st Timothy 4:3 King James
Forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth.
Woah buddy, lets see what the Bible REALLY is saying.

Quote:

1Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;

2Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;

3Forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth.


4For every creature of God is good, and nothing to be refused, if it be received with thanksgiving:

5For it is sanctified by the word of God and prayer.

6If thou put the brethren in remembrance of these things, thou shalt be a good minister of Jesus Christ, nourished up in the words of faith and of good doctrine, whereunto thou hast attained.

7But refuse profane and old wives' fables, and exercise thyself rather unto godliness.
Obviously you or your mother took that VERY out of context. People like to do that. Obviously they were condemning people who would condemn others in the later days, this also shows that the 7th day Adventists are a little misguided.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Psalm 92:3, King James
Upon an instrument of ten strings, and upon the psaltery; upon the harp with a solemn sound.
Once again, why is this being taken out of the context it was used in?

Quote:

2To shew forth thy lovingkindness in the morning, and thy faithfulness every night,

3Upon an instrument of ten strings, and upon the psaltery; upon the harp with a solemn sound.

4For thou, LORD, hast made me glad through thy work: I will triumph in the works of thy hands.
Its just a simple psalm, thats what the person who wrote the psalm figured the heavens played, that was all they had back then, im sure other forms of instruments and music arent "forbidden".

People will take the screwiest things away from simple passages.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Genesis 1:22 King James
And God blessed them, saying, Be fruitful, and multiply, and fill the waters in the seas, and let fowl multiply in the earth.
It says what it says and it says what it means. Are the words birth control in there anywhere? no? well then tell your mom to stop adding to the Bible before she gets cut off from God.

Quote:

Deuteronomy 4:2
Ye shall not add unto the word which I command you, neither shall ye diminish ought from it, that ye may keep the commandments of the LORD your God which I command you.
Quote:

Deuteronomy 12:32
What thing soever I command you, observe to do it: thou shalt not add thereto, nor diminish from it.
Basically rubix, I wish you wouldn't become an atheist, God loves you so much, and I wish you and others could see the lengths hes gone to, to reconcile himself with man.

Religion is mans attempt to reconcile God with himself, when God has already done that FOR man through grace with Christ.

If you choose not to believe, I want it to be for the right reasons, and not to spite your mother because she is lost in legalism. You need to let her know, THE LAW CANNOT SAVE HER, only JESUS can.

I hope this shed some light on your situation.

Sage Tree 07-04-2010 09:11 AM

Thanks Rubi!

I'm glad you decided to put this one in here. Maybe for a while you can see how it does in here and if you want we can put this in FFA if it's a little slow for ya.

I like the idea of what you are doing here. I think it's a good idea to put some extra lines on either side of the passage. Also there are cultural metaphors that don't always come across right when taken literally. Some times it's the THE behavior that is being said is wrong, rather it's something to juxtapose 'correct' or 'preferable' behaviour.

Like when Buddha shaved his head, when the Brahmins, of the Hindus, all had long hair. And now these days lots more 'priestly' or 'classy' people who are in control have the short hairs. That is something of the time that really made sense when taken from that aspect. Now I think the head shaving is more tradition that necessity or rite.

The camel passing through the eye of a needle is another. Look that up and see what you find about historical pretext. All of a sudden the metaphor about the rich man makes a lot more sense than just comparing him to a camel.

Thanks Brother. I'm happy you are engaged in search for meaning too :)

The

~1~ 07-04-2010 10:21 AM

This may be a good idea, but it will fall victim to the same thing as modern religion has, that being just who interprets what meaning for which passage as it can best be applied to the means to the ends...


In other words (like that huh?) no one can know the true meaning of the words as written because we have never known the hand of the writer, it has all been handed down from one generation to the next and interpreted by man to fit the needs of the day but then how can you go back and say the verse has many different meanings depending on what we need you to follow this week. So the true meaning of the verse is forever lost in a sea of interpretation.

Aint one amongst us who has any idea at all about the 'true' meaning of the bible or its many, many interpretations.

Dantastic 07-04-2010 10:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by №1 (Post 51932124)
This may be a good idea, but it will fall victim to the same thing as modern religion has, that being just who interprets what meaning for which passage as it can best be applied to the means to the ends...


In other words (like that huh?) no one can know the true meaning of the words as written because we have never known the hand of the writer, it has all been handed down from one generation to the next and interpreted by man to fit the needs of the day but then how can you go back and say the verse has many different meanings depending on what we need you to follow this week. So the true meaning of the verse is forever lost in a sea of interpretation.

Aint one amongst us who has any idea at all about the 'true' meaning of the bible or its many, many interpretations.

But thats where your wrong, we do know the hand of the writer...

2 tim 3:16 says

Quote:

16All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
To know God, you need just read his word, its in there for those who have eyes to see and ears to hear.

People use that "interpretation" crap as a cop-out when they find something they don't like or don't comprehend or just to flat out say thats why they dont believe in the Bible, when its all there black and white.

Why don't people stop trying to come to God as they WANT him to be, and start coming to God as he is, holy and perfect.

Its sad to see people so scared to commit and have faith in anything but the world. You will become like the gods you worship, so by worshiping the world and the things in it, you will become cold and empty, just like the world.

Quote:

Originally Posted by №1 (Post 51932124)
This may be a good idea, but it will fall victim to the same thing as modern religion has, that being just who interprets what meaning for which passage as it can best be applied to the means to the ends...

Modern religion isn't Christianity, why is this so difficult to comprehend for people.

Stop judging a religion by its followers and start learning what it teaches. That way if you still don't want to believe, you at least know what you're talking about.

Rubix 07-05-2010 01:47 AM

Thanks a lot for the thorough response, Dan. I really do still have the grassroots for Christianity ingrained in me so deep,(what my mom has been driving in me), however you have definitely started to rethink how my view of Jesus and God really is and should be.

btw, i had a several hundred word post going until Safari shit on me :(

Ill be back later this week with some more discussion of passages.

Sage Tree 07-05-2010 09:00 AM

So as far as 'A One Truth', there are some takes on that too, irony I know.

Mystics believe that through contemplation/meditation we can know God's nature better/ True Self, or what have you.

Quakers are a modern day protestant mystic and I would say something the Pentecostals could be considered that as well. These are people who believe in direct experience with God is possible through the Holy Spirit. Mystics are also present in Catholicism as well as most major world religions and 'lesser' ones, I'm sure as well.

Here is a post from a while ago that you might enjoy looking over. It's my experience, so you KNOW it's the truth ;).

Christian Mysticism and Other Findings

Also there is a link at the top of the SS page for Beliefnet.org, which will take you to the belief-o-matic. I think the bias is that it tells everyone they are Unitarian.... which really covers a lot of things. But ALSO it kinda tells you a little about who you match up with and if you have anything to learn from their understanding. Not that these are all the spiritual paths in the world, but it's an interesting marker on the way to searching a place for yourself.

Beliefnet.org


I think that having a community is really where the church comes from, but in the end, salvation/liberation of any kind, humanistically or ethereal is a personal experience. I feel we can learn from each other and the respective path/experiences we're on, but in the end it's up to us and is our call what Personal Truth will reside with in.

To me finding 'God' is about searching for our Natural Way of Being.


I look forward to hearing more about what you have to say. Hopefully the comp. works with you.

In Metta,
SageTree

badgoalie85 07-05-2010 09:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rubix (Post 51931952)
I am on the verge of saying I am an atheist but I'm just unsure.

congratulations!

there's a special word for that. it's called agnostic. ;)

Sage Tree 07-05-2010 09:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by badgoalie85 (Post 51932400)
congratulations!

there's a special word for that. it's called agnostic.

Werd man!

"Honk if you don't know!"

hijabihippie 07-05-2010 12:33 PM

"Know if you don't honk!"

--this also works for me. ;)

Sage Tree 07-05-2010 03:07 PM

:lol:!!!!

BibleGuy 07-05-2010 04:44 PM

Hi Rubix,

"Forbidding to marry..." I posted something a while back regarding that verse here. I hope you find it helpful.

"Upon an instrument of ten strings, and upon the psaltery; upon the harp with a solemn sound."
Its the "with a solemn sound" thing that gets her, right? This English phrase is the translation of a single Hebrew word:

H1902 הִגָּיוֹן higgayown (hig-gaw-yone') n-m.
1. a murmuring sound, i.e. a musical notation (probably similar to the modern affettuoso to indicate solemnity of movement)
2. (by implication) a machination
intensive from הָגָה hagah (daw-gaw') v.
1. to murmur (in pleasure or anger)
2. (by implication) to ponder

Ever observe someone deep in thought on something? How about Gandalf sitting in front of the fireplace, smoking his pipe and pondering about the ring (Lord Of The Rings) - great example. He murmurs a word here and there... he is contemplating... meditating...

This "solemn" music is supportive of such a "murmuring sound", i.e., meditation or focused attention. And in the case of Psalms 92, the attention is upon Yahweh.

But, is this verse a command or a description? Does it say "Thou shalt make only this type of music"?

What about this:

"To every thing there is a season, and a time to every purpose under the heaven: A time to be born, and a time to die; ... and a time to dance..."; (Ecclesiastes 3:1-4, KJV)

"to dance" is רָקַד raqad in Hebrew, meaning (properly) to stamp, i.e. to spring about (wildly or for joy).

Hope this helps you. I'm gonna go turn on some nice upbeat smooth jazz and spring about wildly... :D

~1~ 07-05-2010 04:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by badgoalie85 (Post 51932400)
congratulations!

there's a special word for that. it's called agnostic. ;)


I'm steering away from agnosticism, I'm willing to pick a team and go with it, I don't know but I'm gonna stick to the conviction until someone who does know for sure can show me different.

Sage Tree 07-05-2010 05:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by №1 (Post 51932495)
I'm steering away from agnosticism, I'm willing to pick a team and go with it, I don't know but I'm gonna stick to the conviction until someone who does know for sure can show me different.

Are you saying you do have your eggs in some religion/path 's basket?

~1~ 07-05-2010 05:09 PM

Atheist.

However, that also puts me into the religious fray since it is a belief of non-belief, thus implying there is indeed something to believe in so I would hesitate to accept even that label.


Ponderous.

Sage Tree 07-05-2010 05:29 PM

I'm glad that paradoxes sit well with you. I think this takes one far in life.


No1.....

Maybe I could turn you on to this guy??!! :lol:x10000000000000 00000!!!!!!!

Have a good one man, and save this one for a rainy day. I can watch these laughter vids long enough generally to come near peeing myself.....which might not sound good come to think of it... but you get what I'm saying :D

badgoalie85 07-05-2010 07:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by №1 (Post 51932495)
I'm steering away from agnosticism, I'm willing to pick a team and go with it, I don't know but I'm gonna stick to the conviction until someone who does know for sure can show me different.

why?

Rubix 07-05-2010 11:38 PM

what do you think of this? MennoDiscuss.com • View topic - Not with Broided Hair...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ephesians 5:4
King James Bible
Neither filthiness, nor foolish talking, nor jesting, which are not convenient: but rather giving of thanks.

I was brought up to interpret this as "Don't waste your life watching sitcoms or cartoons, as this is vain babble and foolish behavior."

Also, it likely would contain course words...
Quote:

Exodus 20:7 Thou shalt not take the name of the LORD thy God in vain; for the LORD will not hold him guiltless that taketh his name in vain.
Matthew 5:34-36 But I say unto you, Swear not at all; neither by heaven; for it is God's throne: Nor by the earth; for it is his footstool: neither by Jerusalem; for it is the city of the great King. Neither shalt thou swear by thy head, because thou canst not make one hair white or black.
Do you think it wrong to say "O my God" since that context is taking it in vain?

Did they have swear words such as ones today?? :confused:
btw, i hope i don't sound sarcastic -- I don;t' mean too

Dantastic 07-06-2010 04:12 AM

They aren't talking about swear words, they are talking about swearing on things such as Bibles and the name of God.

I choose not to say "omg", or to use the name of God at all unless im addressing him, but thats just me, it makes no difference to me if other people do or not, its just a personal choice.

Also, once again with that link, people are to busy worrying about what they can and can't do and trying to figure out ways to point out others doing wrong, they fail to understand that legalism cant save them, so why get lost in it?

If you are truly saved and have Christ in your heart you will do whats right by Christ living through you and giving you a new heart being born again in spirit. No amount of studying what you should and shouldn't do is going to change a thing without true repentance twords God.

Sage Tree 07-06-2010 08:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dantastic (Post 51932568)
No amount of studying what you should and shouldn't do is going to change a thing without true repentance twords God.

I agree with what Dan is saying here.

Rules are never a good substitute for Experience.


What is your level of involvement and reading, now or in the past?

For instance I was raised as a Methodist, went to camps, led Bible studies and My Youth Fellowship etc.... I was head over heals a devotee to Jesus and God. When I got older I meditated one night after a Bible study and began to read about Eastern religions. What I found is that Buddhist look to Buddha the way I always felt about God/Jesus. Then what happened is that this inspiration, round aboutly made me a 'better Christian', even though my ideas of 'What Is' was growing.

Today when I reflect of scripture for thought I more often find myself pondering a Sutra for logic as well as a Bible passage.

My point is:
All in all, from my up bringing I know the Bible's verses well. Regardless of how singularly I revere them, and was wondering if you have the same working knowledge.


Myself, these days I volunteer at a Roman Catholic administrated drop in centre as a spiritual counselor. There I am to use 'as a believer' only the Bible. But since I fall out of that line to a proper degree, I respectfully choose the language of faith people have come to me in asking.

I will step outside the bounds with people when talking if I feel they are more of a Spiritualist than a Bible-ist, if you will. Many of the people who come there are also First Nations and I feel I am more willing to go to the place in 'how they know the Creator' and bring their wanting to know the Bible into principles that apply to life, that is, bring the social gospel to them, instead of a pile of "don'ts". To me that is giving some one a drink or taste of the Bible first, rather than just throwing them in the Ocean.

To elucidate in humanistic undertones of passages I will often summon a Sutra that put it into plainer language. And what usually happens is that people get it when I take the Biblely talk about it and just say it.

"You are a good Christian" is the sentence that has followed more than one Sutra recitation. :lol: Maybe.... Maybe I am :lol: But hey....Same thing I think, because no one can own love and compassion.

In the end, there, at the Centre we are to 'Be a Christ-like presence' and are there to promote Spiritual connection and if the guest is so inclined, Christianity.

And for me, that touches back to my emulation tendencies to Jesus and The Buddha.


Another cool thing I found there was what I posted earlier about mysticism. Meditation in both traditions has helped me have a valid link of experience.

Much love Rubi,

Sage


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