God did not create the universe, says Hawking

~1~ · 09-02-2010, 01:20 PM

God did not create the universe, says Hawking - Yahoo! News

Quote:

LONDON (Reuters) – God did not create the universe and the "Big Bang" was an inevitable consequence of the laws of physics, the eminent British theoretical physicist Stephen Hawking argues in a new book.

In "The Grand Design," co-authored with U.S. physicist Leonard Mlodinow, Hawking says a new series of theories made a creator of the universe redundant, according to the Times newspaper which published extracts on Thursday.

"Because there is a law such as gravity, the universe can and will create itself from nothing. Spontaneous creation is the reason there is something rather than nothing, why the universe exists, why we exist," Hawking writes.

"It is not necessary to invoke God to light the blue touch paper and set the universe going."

Hawking, 68, who won global recognition with his 1988 book "A Brief History of Time," an account of the origins of the universe, is renowned for his work on black holes, cosmology and quantum gravity.

Since 1974, the scientist has worked on marrying the two cornerstones of modern physics -- Albert Einstein's General Theory of Relativity, which concerns gravity and large-scale phenomena, and quantum theory, which covers subatomic particles.

His latest comments suggest he has broken away from previous views he has expressed on religion. Previously, he wrote that the laws of physics meant it was simply not necessary to believe that God had intervened in the Big Bang.

He wrote in A Brief History ... "If we discover a complete theory, it would be the ultimate triumph of human reason -- for then we should know the mind of God."

In his latest book, he said the 1992 discovery of a planet orbiting another star other than the Sun helped deconstruct the view of the father of physics Isaac Newton that the universe could not have arisen out of chaos but was created by God.

"That makes the coincidences of our planetary conditions -- the single Sun, the lucky combination of Earth-Sun distance and solar mass, far less remarkable, and far less compelling evidence that the Earth was carefully designed just to please us human beings," he writes.

Hawking, who is only able to speak through a computer-generated voice synthesizer, has a neuro muscular dystrophy that has progressed over the years and left him almost completely paralyzed.

He began suffering the disease in his early 20s but went on to establish himself as one of the world's leading scientific authorities, and has also made guest appearances in "Star Trek" and the cartoons "Futurama" and "The Simpsons."

Last year he announced he was stepping down as Cambridge University's Lucasian Professor of Mathematics, a position once held by Newton and one he had held since 1979.

Or is this another one of those 'faith test' thingies?

HTAM · 09-02-2010, 01:31 PM

Can you imagine the torture that would of been inflicted on him had he lived during The Inquisition? Or in Salem during the witch trials?

How much longer did it take for knowledge and hypothesis to develop because of the fear of the church.

The Rev · 09-02-2010, 01:33 PM

Hawking has always distanced himself from the mystical aspects of his trade. This doesn't surprise me.

The Rev

**Mafoo** · 09-02-2010, 01:42 PM

i view god in a more philosophical, rather than theological, way. for me, god is just the word we use to describe what is beyond our ability to concieve of in our minds. i dont think god makes or does things, god just is. god is everything that is, and everything thats happened and will happen. physics included

Bearsy · 09-02-2010, 01:47 PM

I been knownt that.

SmokeaJoint · 09-02-2010, 02:04 PM

Stephen Hawking is a genius. If he says it, it must be true! LOL jk (kinda) but he does have several good points on the argument. A main theme in a lot of theological discussions in which I took place in was the seeming perfection of all the things that make life possible. The distance from earth to sun, the axis, the gravity, ect. How the odds of finding another one like it are astronomical. However, isn't the scope and scale of the Universe astronomical also? There's enough room for chance in a seemingly infinite space for anything to happen at least twice. *Pop* Oops there goes the God thing...

badgoalie85 · 09-02-2010, 03:11 PM

hawking has a way of coming out with "groundbreaking" theories that seem amazing to you and i, but to others in his field hawking is not considered especially brilliant, from what i've seen/read of him. it doesn't take a genius to pick apart his argument, anyway, because god could have just as easily created the laws of physics which led to the "inevitable" big bang.

also: this statement

Quote:

In his latest book, he said the 1992 discovery of a planet orbiting another star other than the Sun helped deconstruct the view of the father of physics Isaac Newton that the universe could not have arisen out of chaos but was created by God.

"That makes the coincidences of our planetary conditions -- the single Sun, the lucky combination of Earth-Sun distance and solar mass, far less remarkable, and far less compelling evidence that the Earth was carefully designed just to please us human beings," he writes.

is not evidence that god did not create the universe. all it is evidence of is that our solar system is probably not special or unique.

SmokeaJoint · 09-02-2010, 03:14 PM

Theres always an argument for and against. Everything is refutable providing you twist the words/meaning right. Not trying to say anything negative but still...

badgoalie85 · 09-02-2010, 03:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SmokeaJoint

Theres always an argument for and against. Everything is refutable providing you twist the words/meaning right. Not trying to say anything negative but still...

...what?

HTAM · 09-02-2010, 03:22 PM

^Yea.....Death is not refutable.

SmokeaJoint · 09-02-2010, 03:26 PM

I was talking about arguments for/against god. The statistics involved, you can say whatever you want with them depending on your bias. Make more sense now?

stoneric · 09-02-2010, 03:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mafoo

i view god in a more philosophical, rather than theological, way. for me, god is just the word we use to describe what is beyond our ability to concieve of in our minds. i dont think god makes or does things, god just is. god is everything that is, and everything thats happened and will happen. physics included

Well put man.

Lloydy · 09-02-2010, 03:32 PM

there once was a man called hawking
who got very bored of walking
so he hopped on a scooter, attached a computer
and now it does all of the talking

badgoalie85 · 09-02-2010, 03:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SmokeaJoint

I was talking about arguments for/against god. The statistics involved, you can say whatever you want with them depending on your bias. Make more sense now?

no it doesn't make sense because i wasn't making an argument for or against god. i was simply saying that the discovery of a planet orbiting another star is not evidence that there is or isn't a god.

wtf are you talking about statistics for? what statistics?

~1~ · 09-02-2010, 03:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by badgoalie85

no it doesn't make sense because i wasn't making an argument for or against god. i was simply saying that the discovery of a planet orbiting another star is not evidence that there is or isn't a god.

wtf are you talking about statistics for? what statistics?

*I took this part out because I misunderstood BG's statement and didn't want him to think I don't love him , but that doesn't make the rest any less relevant*

Statistically, the odds of our planet having been created by a being just for us have gotten considerably smaller, the discovery of planets revolving around stars has shown that we're not so special.

Life on earth is a bit less of a miracle if there is a possibility of this shit going on someplace else, we're common space monkeys and not the center of the universe, 'bout time we get over ourselves.

The Rev · 09-02-2010, 04:04 PM

Anywhere you are is the center of the universe.

The Rev

HTAM · 09-02-2010, 04:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by №1

Way to see the forest through the trees Jocko...

Statistically, the odds of our planet having been created by a being just for us have gotten considerably smaller, the discovery of planets revolving around stars has shown that we're not so special.

Life on earth is a bit less of a miracle if there is a possibility of this shit going on someplace else, we're common space monkeys and not the center of the universe, 'bout time we get over ourselves.

To that, I would add that there is still new species or life if you will that is being discovered in the oceans all the time.

We know shit about what's going on in this solar system, never mind the milky way.

And just to remind those that may be overlooking it.....our solar system is a grain of sand in the milky way, which is a grain of sand in the 'verse.

And if the branes' theory is correct, our universe might 1 of 1,000,000,000 x 1,000,000,000 to the....fuck it. Just because we can't comprehend it doesn't mean it ain't happening.

I don't even think I could equate us to monkeys. More like the amoebas who have developed the ability to only recently become self aware in the timeline of existence.

~1~ · 09-02-2010, 05:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Rev

Anywhere you are is the center of the universe.

The Rev

Awwww, thanks man, you know how to make a guy feel special.

badgoalie85 · 09-03-2010, 08:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by №1

Statistically, the odds of our planet having been created by a being just for us have gotten considerably smaller, the discovery of planets revolving around stars has shown that we're not so special.

i'm not talking about the creation of our planet, i'm talking about the existence of god. like i said, the discovery of a planet orbiting another star says nothing about the existence of god...all it says is that it's less likely that our planet is special.

~1~ · 09-03-2010, 08:10 AM

I'm talking about the creation of the planet, not god...

If you want to believe then try believing there was an ultimate 'creator' but we weren't created in his image so much as from the stuff he made. We aint nothing special folks...

How's that for ya?

09-02-2010, 01:33 PM	#3 (permalink)
The Rev Clear Light Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: In my head, somewhere. Posts: 17,865 Thanks: 5,018 Thanked 5,420 Times in 2,865 Posts	Hawking has always distanced himself from the mystical aspects of his trade. This doesn't surprise me. The Rev __________________ Budforce - My Friend August 29, 1973- May 25, 2012

09-02-2010, 01:42 PM	#4 (permalink)
Mafoo nice daze Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: the anguish of anticipated transformation Posts: 5,975 Thanks: 3,776 Thanked 2,652 Times in 1,698 Posts	i view god in a more philosophical, rather than theological, way. for me, god is just the word we use to describe what is beyond our ability to concieve of in our minds. i dont think god makes or does things, god just is. god is everything that is, and everything thats happened and will happen. physics included __________________ PLUR For once you have tasted flight you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skywards, for there you have been and there you will long to return

09-02-2010, 03:32 PM	#13 (permalink)
Lloydy KTF Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: England Posts: 11,976 Thanks: 533 Thanked 2,478 Times in 1,139 Posts	there once was a man called hawking who got very bored of walking so he hopped on a scooter, attached a computer and now it does all of the talking __________________ Keep the red flag flying high

09-02-2010, 04:04 PM	#16 (permalink)
The Rev Clear Light Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: In my head, somewhere. Posts: 17,865 Thanks: 5,018 Thanked 5,420 Times in 2,865 Posts	Anywhere you are is the center of the universe. The Rev __________________ Budforce - My Friend August 29, 1973- May 25, 2012

09-03-2010, 08:10 AM	#20 (permalink)
~1~ Successful Failure Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: where 'they' can't see. Posts: 10,925 Thanks: 466 Thanked 1,581 Times in 925 Posts	I'm talking about the creation of the planet, not god... If you want to believe then try believing there was an ultimate 'creator' but we weren't created in his image so much as from the stuff he made. We aint nothing special folks... How's that for ya? __________________ "And those who are successful, be always on your guard. Success walks hand in hand with failure, along Hollywood Boulevard" Ray Davies --------------------------------------------------- --------------------------------------------------- Click Here Asshole

09-02-2010, 01:31 PM	#2 (permalink)
HTAM Old School Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 3,872 Thanks: 2,368 Thanked 2,117 Times in 1,179 Posts	Can you imagine the torture that would of been inflicted on him had he lived during The Inquisition? Or in Salem during the witch trials? How much longer did it take for knowledge and hypothesis to develop because of the fear of the church.

09-02-2010, 03:22 PM	#10 (permalink)
HTAM Old School Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 3,872 Thanks: 2,368 Thanked 2,117 Times in 1,179 Posts	^Yea.....Death is not refutable.

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