yo.

So, here's my generalized main plot of the Bible: There was this awesome dude who performed miracles and saved people, freed them of their sins and gave them eternal happiness in afterlife and all these wonderful things. Gave us meaning of life, and a promise of a better future (what all humans want!!)Then along come the Jews... Then the Bible goes on to say that the Jews torture and crucify our "Savior," our messiah, our leader.

Christian anti-Semitism during the days of Christ:
Christians:
Denied Jews civil rights,
burned synagogues,
went on massacres (Crusaders),
denied them occupational placement,
forced them into ghettos,
accused them of poisoning the water causing the Great Plague.

Martin Luther:
started protestant reformation,
published "The Jews and Their Lies,"
burned synagogues, and believed to have started the Nazi trend of hating Jews.



I've been thinking back and trying to find the roots this anti-Semitism, and from what I've heard, it was around BEFORE the Bible, but that could easily be false information..
Especially considering this: What other significant past events were full of and [at least almost] advocating anti-Semitism, before the Bible?

SO...... Is the Bible the beginning of anti-Semitism?
/serious question





p.s. - I just heard the most horrible song on Groovesharks radio, it made me cringe in displeasure



EDIT: NOT trying to stir up controversy! Serious question, hell I could be wrong about the Bibles main plot for all I know, I havent read it! This is just something I thought of, and thought I'd share and see what y'all think

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SmokeaJoint

IDK man, I thin k you forgot about the Old Testament.

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yo.

Didn't read it. What's it about?

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SmokeaJoint

Not much, just how God kills almost all of mankind because they're "sinful" and how he is a wrathful SOB who, unlike the NT, loves to punish the unrighteous with death. Complete oposite from the "love all regardless" in the NT.

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yo.

Well.. alright.. thanks.

What does that have to do with my anti-Semitism querstion? (left the r for the lulz)

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SmokeaJoint

Nothing. I was referring to your paraphrasing of the Bible itself. Doesn't matter though, the Bible's just a collection of stories IMO.

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The Rev

I've only read one book on Judaism ( Amazon.com: Jewish Literacy Revised Ed: The Most Important Things to Know About the Jewish Religion, Its People, and Its History (9780061374982): Joseph Telushkin: Books ), and while it didn't offer any concrete theories about why the Jews seem to get dealt the hate card so much, I did learn quite a bit that led me to believe that it's about wealth and cultural minority.

Jewish culture puts a very strong emphasis on education. As a result, Jews are more successful financially, generally speaking. The average Jew in the USA makes about twice what the average person overall makes, for example. Jews are also a minority just about everywhere they live, so are generally not the dominant culture in their society. This makes them an easy target when things get bad, and people are looking for someone to blame. There's no one more hated by those who are failing than a person who's succeeding, and people like Hitler knew this in the 1930s, and used the jews as a scapegoat for people's economic misfortune during that time. (Of course, the fact that he was a true-believer, and not just an opportunist, when it came to his anti-semitism, didn't hurt his cause - it's always easier to sell a product you believe in.)

All the other stuff, the blood drinking and christ killing and all that are just excuses that people have dreamed up over the years to rationalize their acts of hate. The root of it is envy.



The Rev

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John F. Kerry

that might be the oldest justification for anti semitism, but any type of racism has more to do with individual peoples jealousies and personal views than what might have started those views 5000 years ago.

it was only about 50 years ago that the pope apologized for blaming jews for the death of jesus .

its like 9/11 at this point, anybody who hates jews can be like oh you killed our savior and whether it has any basis in reality has nothing to do with why they make the comments in the first place .

the thing is, im no new testament scholar, but im pretty sure all of jesuss followers and the man himself were all jews right? so its not like it was one jew judas condeming him to death, or pontias did that or what? but like most of the people in the story were jews plus a handful of romans...

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kamikazi89

actually, it was through the crucifixtion that christ redeemed all those willing to accept it
Redemption: Paid by Jesus Christ's Death on the Cross

the jews role in the crucifixation has been source material for anti-semtism(which varies from place to place)

however... anti-semitism does pre date the new testament(slavery being one example)

also, the two least likely books to withstand scrutiny are genesis and Revelations, which are also the two most popular

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farmergiles

The same reason the Tamils are persecuted in Sri Lanka- Jews tend to keep a homogeneous culture of their own throughout other cultures and also (like the Rev said) tend to accumulate wealth through work and acumen.

Since Jews are recognisable as an independent culture and tend to be prosperous they make an obvious target for the likes of Hitler and the Pope to stir up hatred in their not so bright followers. The retards who fall for this get to blame someone else for their own general fail at life.

Anti semetism goes back way before the new testament, hence all that stuff with Moses and the Egyptians etc.

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yo.

Thanks for all the good posts folks, and thanks Sage, this def. is thread worthy...

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SageTree

There is mad fighting, captivity etc... in the The Tanakh/Old Testament and in between that time and when the Christian Scriptures pick up in the New Testament.

In the New Testament Roman rule seemed to have a lot to do with the setting in the Books ,however there was conflict around and during the time many of these NT Books were being penned for the first time, supposedly, and that was never spoken of spoken of. This could be due to the general aim and message, documenting early church history, rather than history of the surrounding world.

And the fact is, we're talking Judaic history.... only wanted to point out conflict being in the region during the 1st and 2nd century as well....

There were how ever uprisings Before the Common Era , ie. Maccabees Revolt. But during a civil war in Judah, Rome moved in and claimed it as a province, thus beginning it's rule around the begging the Common Era.

Here is a time line of Jewish History on Wikipedia:

Jewish–Roman Wars

Clearly anyone can add rebuttal on what that source says, however I just wanted to add some links here in case Yo, or anyone wants further reading or a jumping off the net point to read a book.

In kind
SageTree

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stoneric

I don't know about the origins of anti-semitism but the government of israel is the cause for most of the percieved anti-semitism today. Disagree with their right wing ideology and their brutality and you're automatically anti-semite. This is only accomplished by having an aipac owned congress and a lapdog media.

John F. Kerry

that just shows how you pretend that your anti-israelism actually has anything to do with jews.

there are plenty of jews against israel, even some who go to have tea with ahmadinejad.

and something like 60 percent of israelis and 60 percent of american jews want a 2 state solution... so its hardly all jews that are responsible for israels political stance.

i think you just find it easier to blame jews in general and make it seem like oh yea its those jews they're causing trouble again.... kinda the same way people get mad about blaming all muslims for 9/11, but of course you dont do that because thats racist.

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SageTree

That BBC doc, I mentioned the other day, John, mentions that there were Jews who had lived in the region for the duration of history and that lot of trouble between the Jew and the Arabs started after the Balfour declaration, which they seemed to insinuate was urged onward by the European Jewish Zionists.

I know you discredited BBC in your post about 'The Birth of Israel' as well, however I thought the thing that I liked about the doc was the it closely or at least more closely told both sides of history and thought it seemed fair.

All things aside, I'd be interested to hear yours or anyone opinions about their perceived accuracy on this show... I don't have an opinion that I'm very firn about at all, so I welcome you all and your thoughts to share.

humbly offered:



SageTree

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John F. Kerry

ive seen it before, its alright but it has some pretty biased parts if you ask me. i guess i dont really buy the way the palestinians created a tragedy after the fact, and the way the bbc and others who seem disposed to be anti israel pick up on that. the fact is, it was never a palestinian state. the other fact is, the arabs not the jews rejected the partitian plan. and the only reason they didnt slaughter every jew in sight isnt because they didnt want to but because they werent able to. so now because the jews managed to kick the ass of the agressors time and time again it somehow becomes that they were actually the agressors to begin with which just isnt true. they may be much more powerful than the palestinians today, but they werent in 1948 when both sides could have made peace.... meh...

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SageTree

Thanks for your side of the story Jaunson

I thought it hit some bias on both sides and I suppose that some how distinguishes some semblance of a 'middle' feeling about the doc.

cheers
SageTree

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stoneric

My "anti israelism" has absolutely nothing to do with jews, it has to do with the actions of their government. How I feel the about jewish state of israel or the islamic state of iran or the christian state of america is based on their governments only and not what fairy tale the majority of them believe in.

Roach

happened sometime after the invention of gods to control people,

and the realization that ALL religion is bullshit.





...just an educated guess.

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Roach

kind of the way one religion declares death to all who are not muslim in their current jihad.

the muslim religion (Mohammedanism/Islam) was in existance less than a year before declaring their first holy war.


Which was pretty much the reason it was invented.

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