A philosophical exercise

The Rev · 02-16-2011, 09:06 AM

Here's the premise:

There are two people engaged in a game together, which must end in one winning the game and one losing the game. The outcome will be that the winner of the game feels happy that he won, the loser feels disappointed that he lost. The exercise is to consider which situation would be best to find yourself in. 1) You are the winner only, 2) you are the loser only, 3) you are both winner AND loser, and 4) you are neither the winner or loser

Also, once you've decided, post any thoughts you might have on why you made your choice as you did.

Thanks,

The Rev

osirus2020 · 02-16-2011, 09:30 AM

Well from the sounds of it if I chose option #3 we have each won and lost one game each.

I think there are pros and cons for each situation and while #3 probably offers you the most in terms of what you take away from winning or losing, I see it as just a matter of different outcomes, not as good or bad.

Sugar420 · 02-16-2011, 04:08 PM

im also thinking #3 because it gives the both sides of experience, adding depth to each. having both seems to give less chance of getting the self identified with one or the other, and may give a sense of what is beyond any particular pair of opposites.

Xil · 02-16-2011, 04:16 PM

neither. when you dont compete you cant lose, when you have nothing youll never be stolen from.

actually im just lazy and dont feel like playing the game.

HTAM · 02-16-2011, 04:33 PM

I chose #3, Winner and Loser, because I know what that feels like.

One time at a job I got Employee of the Month.

Truly winning and losing at the same time.

Parallax · 02-16-2011, 06:21 PM

depends on what kind of game and how happy or how bad i might feel about losing or winning. if the stakes are high, it would make sense to want to win rather than lose.

msicidron · 02-16-2011, 07:49 PM

well, i sort of felt like i should vote neither, out of principle i guess. i'd usually rather not confuse myself by getting absorbed in some unnecessary duality, ..just thickens the haze, blah blah

But then i think..

What reason are we here for other than to participate and experience? So why not explore everything to every end.

so i chose #3, Both.

Suliman · 02-17-2011, 12:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by msicidron

i'd usually rather not confuse myself by getting absorbed in some unnecessary duality, .

^ Why i voted 4

Mescalito · 02-25-2011, 09:14 PM

I would like to be the winner because it would make me feel happy that I tried and succeeded. All the better if the game relied more on applied than 'luck'.

The idea of a game is to win.. right? If someone did not care for the outcome or preferred a loss over a win then it wouldn't be good game, especially if you knew the other player(s) were thinking that way.

Sure there are lessons to be had from losing also, such as learning from what worked and what didn't work in that particular game in order to take to the next game.. the chance to learn humility... the brief disappointment could be used to add extra motivation for the next game.. etc. It's all what you take from the situation I guess. Even though these lessons are there to learn, we don't always see them and when we do we don't always chose to learn.

M

The Rev · 02-25-2011, 11:49 PM

Mescalito! What up, nig? What's with the new handle?

The Rev

Captain Cannabis · 02-26-2011, 12:39 AM

if i had to play the game i would rather lose because i don't care about playing the game. if the other person feels good for winning, and i haven't lost anything then everyone is at least as good as before we played the game.

JcP · 03-22-2011, 09:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mescalito

I would like to be the winner because it would make me feel happy that I tried and succeeded. All the better if the game relied more on applied than 'luck'.

The idea of a game is to win.. right? If someone did not care for the outcome or preferred a loss over a win then it wouldn't be good game, especially if you knew the other player(s) were thinking that way.

Sure there are lessons to be had from losing also, such as learning from what worked and what didn't work in that particular game in order to take to the next game.. the chance to learn humility... the brief disappointment could be used to add extra motivation for the next game.. etc. It's all what you take from the situation I guess. Even though these lessons are there to learn, we don't always see them and when we do we don't always chose to learn.

M

This. I'd also be happy to secretly lose on purpose if it made the person I was playing with feel good, and was someone who I would enjoy seeing happy.

But I'm much more of a fan of games that require both skill AND luck...mainly because if it's just skill it stops being a 'game' and starts turning into a fucking life commitment to keep up and feel relevant. I prefer dice, not a chess board (unless equally matched with someone)

I think it's why I'd be TOTALLY down with learning how to become a wizard, but there's not a chance in hell I'd become a scientist.

The Don · 03-23-2011, 12:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Captain Cannabis

if i had to play the game i would rather lose because i don't care about playing the game. if the other person feels good for winning, and i haven't lost anything then everyone is at least as good as before we played the game.

But aren't you missing the premis for the question? you will feel bad. You have to care.

On those grounds I picked winning. If I can't even allow myself a little greatness in even an imaginary game like this, when can I?

Grieves · 03-23-2011, 12:48 AM

i want to be the loser because i want something to strive for...we all just trying to be number one until we are number one....

SmokeHerb · 03-23-2011, 01:58 AM

if you arnt a winner your a loser

so HA

Captain Cannabis · 03-23-2011, 08:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Don

But aren't you missing the premis for the question? you will feel bad. You have to care.

On those grounds I picked winning. If I can't even allow myself a little greatness in even an imaginary game like this, when can I?

luckily my feelings are not dictated by the rules of the game. you will never get more out of me than pretending that i care

The Don · 03-23-2011, 08:19 AM

My head is exploding from rage now Cap'n. You must submit to the rules of the game.

The whole premise is shattered by your careless words! Don't do it man..

Captain Cannabis · 03-23-2011, 12:54 PM

nah the game is stupid. no game can control how i feel

The Don · 03-24-2011, 02:29 PM

Damnit captain

Captain Cannabis · 03-24-2011, 04:03 PM

does this mean i won the game

View Poll Results: Which condition is it best to be in?
Winner	7	46.67%
Loser	0	0%
Winner AND Loser	5	33.33%
Neither.	3	20.00%
Voters: 15. You may not vote on this poll

02-16-2011, 09:06 AM	#1 (permalink)
The Rev Clear Light Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: In my head, somewhere. Posts: 17,865 Thanks: 5,018 Thanked 5,420 Times in 2,865 Posts	A philosophical exercise Here's the premise: There are two people engaged in a game together, which must end in one winning the game and one losing the game. The outcome will be that the winner of the game feels happy that he won, the loser feels disappointed that he lost. The exercise is to consider which situation would be best to find yourself in. 1) You are the winner only, 2) you are the loser only, 3) you are both winner AND loser, and 4) you are neither the winner or loser Also, once you've decided, post any thoughts you might have on why you made your choice as you did. Thanks, The Rev __________________ Budforce - My Friend August 29, 1973- May 25, 2012

02-16-2011, 04:16 PM	#4 (permalink)
Xil OD'ing on sobriety Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Mizzura Posts: 3,334 Blog Entries: 1 Thanks: 1,036 Thanked 1,158 Times in 717 Posts	neither. when you dont compete you cant lose, when you have nothing youll never be stolen from. actually im just lazy and dont feel like playing the game. __________________ "we'll show these fascists what a couple of hillbillies can do"

02-16-2011, 06:21 PM	#6 (permalink)
Parallax Admiral Join Date: Aug 2003 Posts: 4,739 Thanks: 160 Thanked 590 Times in 318 Posts	depends on what kind of game and how happy or how bad i might feel about losing or winning. if the stakes are high, it would make sense to want to win rather than lose. __________________ FUCK THE ROBOTS!!! NUKE THE WHALES!!!

02-16-2011, 07:49 PM	#7 (permalink)
msicidron vibing Join Date: May 2007 Location: North America Posts: 959 Thanks: 229 Thanked 157 Times in 122 Posts	well, i sort of felt like i should vote neither, out of principle i guess. i'd usually rather not confuse myself by getting absorbed in some unnecessary duality, ..just thickens the haze, blah blah But then i think.. What reason are we here for other than to participate and experience? So why not explore everything to every end. so i chose #3, Both. __________________ \|\|\|\|\|\|\|\|\|\|\|\|\|\|\|\|\|\|\|\|\|\|\|\|

02-16-2011, 04:08 PM	#3 (permalink)
Sugar420 Freedom Bird Join Date: Mar 2002 Posts: 6,138 Thanks: 41 Thanked 183 Times in 733 Posts	im also thinking #3 because it gives the both sides of experience, adding depth to each. having both seems to give less chance of getting the self identified with one or the other, and may give a sense of what is beyond any particular pair of opposites.

02-16-2011, 04:33 PM	#5 (permalink)
HTAM Old School Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 3,872 Thanks: 2,368 Thanked 2,117 Times in 1,179 Posts	I chose #3, Winner and Loser, because I know what that feels like. One time at a job I got Employee of the Month. Truly winning and losing at the same time.

02-25-2011, 09:14 PM	#9 (permalink)
Mescalito Oneironaut Join Date: Aug 2001 Posts: 6,295 Thanks: 868 Thanked 909 Times in 446 Posts	I would like to be the winner because it would make me feel happy that I tried and succeeded. All the better if the game relied more on applied than 'luck'. The idea of a game is to win.. right? If someone did not care for the outcome or preferred a loss over a win then it wouldn't be good game, especially if you knew the other player(s) were thinking that way. Sure there are lessons to be had from losing also, such as learning from what worked and what didn't work in that particular game in order to take to the next game.. the chance to learn humility... the brief disappointment could be used to add extra motivation for the next game.. etc. It's all what you take from the situation I guess. Even though these lessons are there to learn, we don't always see them and when we do we don't always chose to learn. M

02-25-2011, 11:49 PM	#10 (permalink)
The Rev Clear Light Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: In my head, somewhere. Posts: 17,865 Thanks: 5,018 Thanked 5,420 Times in 2,865 Posts	Mescalito! What up, nig? What's with the new handle? The Rev __________________ Budforce - My Friend August 29, 1973- May 25, 2012

02-26-2011, 12:39 AM	#11 (permalink)
Captain Cannabis safety word: more Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: m.i.a. Posts: 13,922 Thanks: 2,705 Thanked 3,174 Times in 1,812 Posts	if i had to play the game i would rather lose because i don't care about playing the game. if the other person feels good for winning, and i haven't lost anything then everyone is at least as good as before we played the game. __________________ fuck the monkeys

03-23-2011, 12:48 AM	#14 (permalink)
Grieves The Worst Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Interstate 8 Posts: 12,090 Blog Entries: 1 Thanks: 2,577 Thanked 3,117 Times in 1,712 Posts	i want to be the loser because i want something to strive for...we all just trying to be number one until we are number one.... __________________ "And no matter what they said dollar is not your friend and it's the feelings that are hard to know are the feelings that all come slow No matter what they said dollar is not your friend and these feelings that so hard to know are the feelings that wont let go No don't let go, till you find a home World Unite and I'll love you forever"

03-23-2011, 01:58 AM	#15 (permalink)
SmokeHerb Daily Toker Join Date: Oct 2010 Location: Edmonton Alberta, Canada Posts: 37 Thanks: 10 Thanked 4 Times in 4 Posts	if you arnt a winner your a loser so HA __________________ Legalize, Not Criticize Smoke Weed, Every Day

03-23-2011, 08:19 AM	#17 (permalink)
The Don You follow? Join Date: Sep 2001 Posts: 11,151 Thanks: 544 Thanked 781 Times in 426 Posts	My head is exploding from rage now Cap'n. You must submit to the rules of the game. The whole premise is shattered by your careless words! Don't do it man.. __________________ I am genuienly sad about my thanks:post ratio

03-23-2011, 12:54 PM	#18 (permalink)
Captain Cannabis safety word: more Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: m.i.a. Posts: 13,922 Thanks: 2,705 Thanked 3,174 Times in 1,812 Posts	nah the game is stupid. no game can control how i feel __________________ fuck the monkeys

03-24-2011, 02:29 PM	#19 (permalink)
The Don You follow? Join Date: Sep 2001 Posts: 11,151 Thanks: 544 Thanked 781 Times in 426 Posts	Damnit captain __________________ I am genuienly sad about my thanks:post ratio

03-24-2011, 04:03 PM	#20 (permalink)
Captain Cannabis safety word: more Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: m.i.a. Posts: 13,922 Thanks: 2,705 Thanked 3,174 Times in 1,812 Posts	does this mean i won the game __________________ fuck the monkeys

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