The Rev

Did you know that there are people who will actually kill you if you don't agree that their imaginary god is better than yours?

Did you know that people lie to each other all the time to be nice?

Did you know that by doing that, no one really believes any nice thing that anyone says to them?

Did you know that the bully we orginally paid to protect us from the british bully is now the bully we're paying not to hurt us more?

Did you know that the vast majority of people see no contradiction in using violence to eliminate violence?

Did you know that if you open up to people, giving them the rare chance of getting what they really need, to be accepted for themselves, they are much more likely to use the information to gain an advantage over you?

Did you know that while everyone wants to be rich, everyone HATES rich people? (This goes for any advantage, actually, including looks, talent, etc.)

Did you know that people lie to those closest to them, to avoid small problems, even though those lies drive them apart, and into loneliness and mutual resentment?

Did you know that people hold on to ideals they can't even define, or for reasons they can clearly explain, because they think they should (piety, patriotism, loyalty, etc.) or so that they can feel morally superior?

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I could go one forever with my facetious questions, but here's a serious one:

Why does everyone accept this state of affairs? When life sucks, it usually sucks because of this irrational shit, yet we shrug our shoulders and say, "Well, that's just how people are" or whatever. Why don't we all just fucking stop it!? We can. We just stop it. But we choose not to. And for that, all I can say is, "The world is fucking NUTS!"



The Rev

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The Don

1 simple reason, lack of alternatives.

People who think the problem is the people in charge soon realise the problem is the system. People who think the system is the problem soon realise they have no viable alternative presented. They become apathetic and give up.

This notion of just letting go, live and let be, is a very nice thought. For the individual. Societies on a whole however need systems to regulate transactions between people. That is, you need government. Everyone can agree on the extremes of right and wrong, that killing a baby is bad, helping a dying person is good. It's everything inbetween we differ about. Your notion of what you might be entitled to can be different from someone elses, so you need to have an established set of rules that you both agree on as reference for disputes.

The only thing that can fill mans desire for wealth is the dirt of the grave.

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Grieves

easier to accept the delusions than make the change...

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supaflymonk

Did you know I wasn't quite high enough to read all the did you knows but it's still trippy

SageTree

Seriously... without sounding like a jerk.... Do people read books anymore?

That was NOT long.

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SageTree

Dedicated to Rev....





My advice is generalizations make it A LOT easier to be flattened.

Counting the blessings and positive things is work, it's a practice.
But there is nearly always something no matter how small to be thankful for.

So "just stop it".... And try it out!

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Kompressor

Because Rev, humans are more animal than they'd like to admit.

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Think like a man of action, act like a man of thought. -H. Bergson

supaflymonk

just saying I have a short attention spam but I did go back and read it all. Did you know that I did

SageTree

No man... there are a few things we don't know around here....

I'm sorry for marveling and making comment, On the same vein as the thread...

It's 'fucking nuts' to me sometimes to consider some folks don't read and that a paragraph is long

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turmaline

In regards to the "we are more animal" than we realise comment..


Can you imagine if we went around eating the ass end out of eachother at random when we were hungry..... I'm glad I am human...and not 100% crazy

Although some people might do that somewhere..I know they do that somewhere.

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"I'd rather a frontallabotomy...th an a bottleinfrontofme".

Ego Tripping

Not to be cheesy but Ghandi's quote is the most applicable here.

The world is nuts and for the reasons The Rev mentioned...so all you can do is change yourself and not worry what others are doing. Thats my approach to it. Lo and behold, the more I do that, the more I found like-minded people doing the same thing being attracted into my experience.

You can't shout "no" at something and expect it to change because you're still saying "yes" to it, just with a lot more angst. Think about those crazy ass church people who protest troop funerals. The more they do it, the more they shout no at what they believe the problem is, the more that problem becomes a bigger part of their experience (and the more vindicated their become in their beliefs).

Just be the change and don't worry about the world; its not broken and you're not meant to fix it.

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The Rev

Since I read this yesterday, I've been rolling it over in my mind quite a bit. I think you've really hit it on the head. Makes sense out of everything. Brilliant.



The Rev

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The Rev

Your advice is alot like Pema Chodron's. The old, "Why carpet the country when you can just put on some shoes" view of the problem, and for most problems, I agree. I think where I get stuck, however, is on matters of survival. We need others to survive, and we need them to make sense. We need predictability. That's what frightens me. People seem so irrational to me that I have no idea how to proceed in living.

We are animals, but because of our minds, we are highly abstract animals. We feel threatened by ideas as much as by real things. For example, if I call you an asshole, you get mad. We live in an environment where the players are reacting to what is in their minds as much as what can be perceived by all the players. That's a crazy maze to negotiate, especially when you need others to survive. It's why I tried to make money at home, actually, to sidestep this problem.

I think what Komp got me thinking was this: Reason (and therefore reality by extension) is not what defines us. It is, rather, a tool we use to survive. Otherwise, we are just animals, like the rest. But reason allows us access to the kind of otherworldly beauty and awe that no other tool could ever dream of doing. Some of us want to see life through that lens all the time, and are dismayed by those who would rather put it away and sling their shit at each other from the treetops.

Maybe that sums up the madness I was trying to describe. The thing is, if we're animals first, then it doesn't seem so crazy.



The Rev

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Ego Tripping

If you call me an asshole, and I get mad, thats actually a glaring issue on my end of the communication, not yours. Hence, all we can do is control ourselves. We've been on this forum for years and I'd say its your #1 theme you've talk about; you can control yourself, but you cannot control another person. Another person always has the right to go apeshit and create trouble, even if you're doing what you believe is right.

And honestly, there's no answer, at least a material, 3D, finite Earthly physical-world answer. We all have free-will (and yes, that's a whole other discussion on that merit in and of itself).

But, one thing I'm learning early on: whatever you think the world is like, you're 100% right. So choose wisely about what you want your world to be, because you won't get it wrong and you'll most assuredly see evidence of it everywhere.

My humble superstition is that we're simply evolving and shifting into greater awareness of the very topic you speak of; the idea that 'we're all in this together' and I feel that is what is going to (and has) evolve use further and further. I make money from home too, but let's not delude ourselves. We're not side-stepping the problem at all because you make money off of other people and thus you are constantly engaging with others to make said money. The only difference is the perception. You're playing the game, you're just playing it with the awareness that its all a game in the first place. And that is what gives you the perceived edge in the maze.

We are animals to begin with and I agree with Komp entirely. On that note, I don't feel we're destined to stay that way and its because of our deep embedded knowledge that we need each other that has even got us THIS far (albeit it sometimes doesn't look like much), and will continue to get us even farther............. .











And after writing all of this, I'm not really sure if I even accurately played into the topic of the thread. But I'm high, and I love all of you guys, so I don't really think it matters. Thanks Rev.

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Dr. Nick Nasty

Civilised man, on the other hand, is always moving, sweating, toiling and racking his brains to find still more laborious occupations: he goes on in drudgery to his last moment, and even seeks death to put himself in a position to live, or renounces life to acquire immortality. He pays his court to men in power, whom he hates, and to the wealthy, whom he despises; he stops at nothing to have the honour of serving them; he is not ashamed to value himself on his own meanness and their protection; and, proud of his slavery, he speaks with disdain of those, who have not the honour of sharing it.

-JJ Rousseau, Second Discourse, 1754

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Waves

why are we comparing ourselves to animals, animals are much more civil than humans.

srsly tho i would be interested in hearing why you guys ascribe the negative aspects of our behavior to "being animals" but the positive ones are because we are separated from animals?

the more suitable answer imo is that our environment promotes the behaviors you listed, and they are a result of an evolutionary process more than they are inherent aspects of being an animal or a human.

evolution is always on-going, and i think if you look back at history you can clearly see that human behavior is constantly being refined due to various influences. "its getting better all the time" as the beatles put it.

for instance, now with the internet and communication happening like it is, our systems of govt are being refined and the shady background dealings that the common man didnt even know existed in the past now have a website like wikileaks to go to for all to see.

so to answer your OP, people DO indeed do that, (your post is perfect evidence) its just a much more long draw out process based on slowly moving influences.

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On this life that we call home
The years go fast and the days go so slow

Waves

and i do agree with ego and ghandi. the energy you project each day is your contribution to humanity. by being the change you wish to see you live by example, instead of shutting your heart out to the lowly primitive masses who arent as quick as others to enlightenment. all that doo-hickey about all of us being interconnected isnt just wishy washy new age stuff- you have a very real impact on the world around you FAR past what you are able to see with your two eyes.

you are a part of evolution. what are you contributing to? (i mean this rhetorically :P)

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On this life that we call home
The years go fast and the days go so slow

SageTree

Aaaaaand fucking finally..... Waves comes back to HT


Jesus dude.... where've you been?!!!



I like what you and Ego had to say. I feel you've both touch on what I was saying below in fuller detail and philosophy....


Simplistically I was trying to get at 'bet that change'/ effect the world how you want the world to be, starting with your perceptions of it.

And would agree that we should not underestimate the impact we have each day on our general outlook.

In other words, what seeds we are watering within ourselves.... AND others, for that matter?

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The Rev

If you look at human behavior as basic animal behavior, enhanced and made abstract by the presence of thought, it starts to make sense. This is the conclusion I've come to here. Humans are animals that use thinking and reason as tools, not beings of thought and reason. However, the presence of thought and reason has opened a doorway for each of us to step through, and become beings of thought and reason. Most don't however. They just use their tools when they need them, to satisfy their abstracted animality, then just put them away when they are done, and never understand the transformative power they could have put them to.



The Rev

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SageTree

And how does that make you feel, now that you've concluded that?
i.e.- any ideas on what'chu gonna do with that info?

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