Center

As I start to make my way out of my early twenties I've been increasingly noticing that the idea of spirituality (personal experiences in changing ones mode of consciousness) is not only taboo but commonly considered to be unreasonable. It's generally thought that if someone makes an explicit or implicit claim about anything having to due with mysticism or spirituality that they are at least self-deceiving or at worst crazy. Now, if I put my pre-spiritual-experience-goggles on it's quite easy to understand this taboo. To your average person the idea of spirituality seems to contain baggage including cave-dwelling hermits or drug-impared schizophrenics. However, the kind of people who are usually the ones perpetuating this taboo are also the ones who hold up reason and evidence as their banner. The irony here is that they are so dismissive of these kinds of claims that they are usually unwilling to make any attempt at their own spiritual experiment. While in my younger years I wouldn't have cared about this taboo, as I get older it's become clear I will one day have to answer to it. Because of this it's probably wise to have some form of answer ready to respond with.

Now, the main thing I try to get across to people is that just because I actively seek out spiritual experiences doesn't mean I do or have to accept anything on bad evidence. Just because I meditated for an hour doesn't mean I thought I was in contact with some higher being or participating in any supernatural phenomenon. But what I did do is collect data about my subjective experience and then compared that experience with other experiences. These experiences can then be talked about in an objective way.

So, before I start rambling even more, I just want to get your guys take on this "problem". How do you deal with the perceived divide between spirit and mind and in turn how do you interpret that to others? How do you defend the reasonableness of your spiritual practice if you do indeed consider it reasonable.

-center

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"As an organizer I start where the world is, as it is, not as I would like it to be. That we accept the world as it is does not in any sense weaken our desire to change it into what we believe it should be — it is necessary to begin where the world is if we are going to change it to what we think it should be." - Saul Alinsky

SageTree

Who are these average people and where do these conclusions come from?
Have they been said to you?

Or

Are they questions from your 'pre-spiritual' Self?

Who do you feel you'll 'have' to answer to?
Or
Is this more about you answering questions for yourself?

What's the catalyst for the times you 'try to get something across'?
Who is asking/Who are you telling?
What's the worth, to you, in having this person understand?
To me that sounds like a reasonable explanation.
What isn't understood there?
Why can't that just be your answer?
It's not your job to make this person understand, although I have to say I think most people would like to be understood.

Perhaps looking deeply into why it's important to share this stuff would be a good object of meditation?
What do you hope for in sharing?

I don't perceive a divide between mind-body-spirit.

To me a spiritual practice is simply practicing connectedness to your life and how you experience what is around you.
You're trying to pay attention the best you can, with what you have.
It's natural to want to share this peace of mind with others, but it's hard to put an experience into words....
That is where the speed bump is.

I wouldn't say I 'defend' my spiritual practice to people, but I'll tell them about it if they ask.
Otherwise I think the best way to tell others about your practice is live the realizations you have.

Perhaps you'd do well to find a group of meditaters, journal or come by here to talk more often to process your thoughts as it's natural to want/need to talk things out with people, and perhaps that is how you're entering these instances where you feel you 'have to defend' yourself to others?

Your experience of life is all your own. And I think the ground rule for practice or anything is life is 'Do what you will, Harm none.'

Life is as mystical of an experience as you are open to it.
A mystics general goal is to achieve a union or yoking up with.
What your seeking connectedness with is pretty personal and hard to describe.

For instance, I'm not really too shy about saying 'God'.
I know what I mean by it.

Although it doesn't always serve me well in talking with people.

Spirituality isn't mutually exclusive from the secular world, but perhaps people who feel they are secular or atheist wouldn't choose the word 'spirit' to describe any part of their life.
To them it's just that 'feeling' of being alive, perhaps?

So what I'd call 'God' another person might not.

The consideration for me when I talk about my connectedness to Life is looking at the heart of why I'm talking to that person about it in the first place.

Is this a time when I need someone to talk to, or is this a time when someone needs me?
Do I want them to understand what I'm saying or Do I want to feel understood?
Is this 'talking' or 'telling'?


I have stories about volunteering as a spiritual counselor at a Christian drop in centre that might be useful in talking about 'for me' vs 'for sharing' analyzing is this something that will bring clarity for another in need, or is this a realization for me to act on, rather than talk about?

But I'll let you get to the questions in answer or just in thought.

I hope anything I've said helps a little and wasn't just a big irony in saying 'consider why you're talking about it'

My intention is to help you discover your own answers and not tell you what they are, because I can't

Kind regards,
SageTree

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The Rev

I personally believe that for most people, spirituality (be it in the belief in the Bible or Starseeds or The Secret or whatever) is largely about wish fulfillment, not real spiritual inquiry. To be rational, you have to question your motives, and the ideas you are considering. Just accepting them at face value, without question, is about believing what you want because you want to, and is a problem, IMO.



The Rev

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Parallax

why is it unreasonable to be unreasonable? because it is unreasonable.

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FUCK THE ROBOTS!!!
NUKE THE WHALES!!!

SageTree

!!!!!!!!reasonable-schmeezanabull!!!!!!

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Center

Sage : Thanks for the response. Most of the time when I feel I must defend my interest in spirituality is when I would feel that I'd be lying by omission by not giving my viewpoint of the subject. So I then attempt to represent my views to the inevitable response of, "so your into spirituality and all that new age stuff?".

Roach : You may not feel you have to defend them, but others may feel you do. And to then not defend them could mean potential consequences such as a bad reputation which could cause problems down the line.

Parallax : That's the perfect sentiment to represent how most people react to the world spiritual or any description of what is generally meant by the word spiritual.

Just by reading this thread it's clear the hangup is on the label more then the contents of whats in that label. I guess the takeaway is to ban the word spiritual from my vocab?

Thanks

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"As an organizer I start where the world is, as it is, not as I would like it to be. That we accept the world as it is does not in any sense weaken our desire to change it into what we believe it should be — it is necessary to begin where the world is if we are going to change it to what we think it should be." - Saul Alinsky

SageTree

Glad anything I said helped

I can see not wanting to be lumped with 'new agism' and wanting to explain a little....

When you talk about swimming you don't clarify that it's water you swim in, but you might talk about the vessel that water in contained it.

You are the vessel

I'd say that, if you believe your life to be a spiritual practice, there IS some redundancy in attributing your feelings as such, as opposed to just relating your experience....

I wouldn't remove the tone of spiritual from your sentences.... but maybe you could use some synonyms for it though?

For instance, I choose the word connected(ness) or grounding practice when I feel that 'spiritual' isn't going to be the best foot forward, like I said about me using or not using 'God'.

I'm saying if it's ALL spiritual exp. to you, then acting out on that experience is enough, imo.

Finding the right words can be useful and helpful, but there is something more than words can contain in just acting through your experience and perception of it.

Like I said... you MAY want to find a group of like minded people to talk with, like here at Yahooka or in the face to face world.... it might help you bring clarity to your own points, thoughts and experience. Journaling is also a GREAT tool.


Hope to see you around and chatting about some of your experiences and what's been happening for you.

Cheers
SageTree

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