Sugar420

Jesus, Interrupted - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Browse Inside Jesus, Interrupted: Revealing the Hidden Contradictions in the Bible (And Why We Don't Know About Them) by Bart D. Ehrman

i read this book and it is fantastic. if you are interested at all about the bible this is a great introduction to how the bible came to be, and shows some interesting bible contradictions that no one ever talks about.
it is about the new testament, the part about Jesus and the apostles.


i want to recommend this book to atheists because many people who want to make intellectual arguments against their ideas of religion dont seem to know anything about the bible at all. they repeat what they have heard from other evangelical atheists, without having any understanding of the book that all the fuss is about. a historical or scholarly approach to the bible, instead of a devotional one- is the only foundation for any intellectual argument about it one way or the other.

i also want to recommend this to christians, because it shows some basic facts about the bible- about what it is and isnt. he looks at some assumptions about the bible and talks about different points of view as expressed by the different gospels. its some very interesting stuff.

Roach

that's just stupid to recommend a book on the bible to an atheist.

imho.

an atheist has already determined such things, and books supporting such things, to be fiction/nonsence/hogwash.

better to recommend it to christians, so at least they can all be "on the same page" so to speak.

Humans waste so much of what limited time they have on earth with fear of the afterlife/lack thereof...aka religion, to me it's simply a question of intelligence.

so stop being afraid of the dark christians, release yourselves from the fear that the necromongers have tried to instill in you since birth.

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לזיין את הקופים

Sugar420

this is exactly the kind of ignorant attitude that i wish i could combat, but obviously cant. of course there will be dumb people who think they know enough to conclude they "dont believe in fairy tales" and that "religion is based on fear to controll the masses" but people who repeat these lines are showing how intellectually weak they really are.

there are a lot of ppl who "believe" or say they believe that the bible is "the inerrant word of God" and yet they put no effort into reading/studying the text they think is so important. they just believe what they have been told/taught about the bible rather that actually try to find out. I think most educated people will agree that this is a kind of intellectual laziness. there is also a class of athiest who is pretty much the same: they have been told the bible is bullshit and full of nothing but hate/intolerance and glorification of violence/ that it is no more than a tool to control the masses through fear. but people only think this way because thats what they have been told. they dont question if this is really true, they just accept that "the christian God is a sadistic megalomaniac" based on reading a few cleverly written paragraphs with examples that "prove" this claim.
i dont expect to either of these groups to accept my book recommendation, because they are both too foolish to think they can learn anything worthwhile from reading a bible scholar's book.

my recommendation is to the people who have enough critical and analytical reasoning skills to benefit from it.

Roach

rave on christian soldier.

whatever floats you boat.

madness takes on all forms of humanity.

just as long as nobody tries to sell me bullshit, I have no problem with whomever else gets lost among the shuffle of life, or how they get there.

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לזיין את הקופים

kitch

Thanks suga I have a barnes and noble gift card that's been burning a hole in my pocket.

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Sugar420

yea no prob. he also has a book called Jesus Misquoted which i have not read but is along the same lines and sounds pretty good.

thanx for caring enough to post how much you dont care

Roach

didn't want you to lose focus.

you can't convert someone who has faith in nothing.

I rarely come to this forum for that very reason. The misconception that atheists just need to find the right god as the title implies, caught my eye is all.

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לזיין את הקופים

SageTree

Hey Suga.... Put this one you mentioned on hold at the Library and am going to pick it up today.

Yesterday I typed out a post with some book links and interviews on the topic of scholarship, as well as some kind personal thoughts to roach. Lost it though when a 'quote notification' came up when I went to 'preview' what I wrote... and things froze.
Too long... didn't want to retype. Might bring some of the points up later.


Soooooo........


For now here is a NPR 'Talk of the Nation' interview with Karen Armstrong

Karen Armstrong on Talk of the Nation speaking about "The Bible: A Biography

It's about the book she wrote in the 'Books that changed the World Series', which was 'The Bible: A Biography'.



Here is the NPR link to the series of interviews, about the series of books, which is also listed and described on the page:
'Books That Changed the World' : NPR




@ Roach: We all find meanings in different ways on different roads.
There are idiots with and without religion.
I'm sure you've meant both kinds of numb-nuts.

I've never hoped to have appeared like I was trying to 'help you find the right god',
As my point in replying is only to say "lets not try to use such a broad brush.''

Solomon said in Ecclesiastes that 'There is nothing new under the sun.'

And that is something that makes a lot of sense to me as people reflect on history all the time to help discover meanings and patterns.
That includes looking at history and the people involved in the transmission of that history or religious text.
It's often reactionary to this or that. A facade to solidify a perceived 'unity'.

We all find our own way, which can always be used for good or evil.
There are many many ways to understand life and to find purpose.

Speaking for myself, I don't want you to feel unwelcomed in these conversations.

However, probably for similar reasons you don't like to come here, I hesitate to jump into talking with you about it because I feel you come at religion with just as a fundamentalist approach (perhaps in jest) as those whom you vilify for their methods.



I can't stand here and pretend I don't know who and what you are addressing most of the times when you talk about fanatics, and perhaps I get a little defensive when I'm treated like something I'm not, rather than an person with his own view, thoughts and feelings about the matter.

I welcome your thoughts on life, despite and in spite of our seeming differences.


Here is a story you might enjoy about Church:

Once a pastor friend told me a story when he and I were talking about beliefs and unity.

He said, he had a show of hands to give an example of unity in the church....

He asked people where people where from, what they do for work, how many kids they have, etc etc etc.... but he didn't get everyone in the Church to raise their hands for one thing as a whole until he asked them to honestly raise their hands if they've ever had doubt about their faith.

Sure as can be... everyone raised their hands.

And he said to me, it's funny what brings us together.


Your Friend,
SageTree

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Roach

like water on a ducks back my learned friend.

As a lay reader , I probably told a congregation those same words while reading to them one of the many epistles.

I know religion, I just have no use for it.

I remain,
roach


fyi...in early anglican times the lay reader would read aloud, during a particular portion of the holy eucharist, because many paritioners could not read...now it's just a carried over tradition.

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לזיין את הקופים

SageTree

Of course

Call that perennial truth or just a no brained redundant statement by Solomon, all I'm saying is that sometimes there are allegorical as well as literal truths in there that provide a word of wisdom....

Each understanding has it's time and season....


Solomon said that too


Ecclesiastes is one of my favourite books.... you might like it... most consider it pretty cynical ....













I keed I keed.....



But really, I DO like it a lot and in my own experience and reckonings it talks a lot about the Nature of Self and the vanity of materialism or at least the intention in having in the first place.



Over all dude.... It's all good with me Brother and I won't treat you different for it.
I understand we all touch base with reality in different ways, you're no different.
I know lots of people who have an understandably bad taste in their mouth and those for whom Religion-Spirituality just never clicked as a means for understanding....



Being diluted, like I said, has nothing to do with God or the Bible or no-god/no-bible...

People is people.

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Sugar420

oh my long post got dissapeared. hmmph.

well i didnt mean to give the impression that athiests would be converted if only they had things properly explained to them. the book i am recommending has scholarly information about inconsistencies and contradictions in the gospels, evidence to show that material attributed to the apostle paul wasnt written by paul at all, and historical information that contradicts some claims made in the bible. none of the stuff is shocking or big news, except to people who believe the bible is "inerrant word of God"

the reason i reccomend this book to athiests is because i think if anyone wants to make critical claims about the bible in specific and christianity in general, that should talk about real issues and know what they're talking about rather that lamely trotting out the same few tired quotes from deuteronomy trying to invalidate all of christian thought and philosophy.

~1~

I'm with roach, I really don't need to be reading notes on why "the Wizard of Oz' isn't real when it's leading me to the same conclusion I made years ago.

IOOW, it really doesn't matter which choir you're preaching to...

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~1~

Dude, it isn't real, how can I discuss any of it intelligently when the whole thing is twenty five hundred year old gibberish passed down from one guy to the next in order to condemn, murder, persecute, manipulate and oppress the weak minded while killing intellect and intelligence at the stake with fire because they saw power slipping away from their fat, greedy hands


As the new age of information dawns upon us, the old ways of secrecy and intimidation will fall by the wayside as we can now open our own eyes and see for ourselves.



Hey but that's just my opinion, I could be wrong.





I'd have the balls to admit it though.

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Sugar420

sure, we have all heard that over and over. but i have never heard any real reason to think that claim is true. it is continually repeated, but there is never any evidence given that supports such a wild idea. the reason is that anyone who says this is only repeating what they heard from someone else, who was talking out their butt.

this is funny. im going "here is some information!" and you are going "in dont need or want information because the age of information is here!"

~1~

Well I guess I have to be a little rough...

In my opinion, you're dissecting comic books.


Only these comic books have been responsible for the wholesale destruction of man-kind and the social retardation of a species so you'll forgive me if I don't want to play.



Religion is justification for assholery and I'm not real big on assholery, sorry.


Anyone else wants to give it a read, go for it, don't let my opinion sway you. I can get over it if you don't think the same as me.

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Sugar420

yes i know what your opinion is, you have said so many times. plenty of people say the same thing, but no one has ever given any really sensible, rational reason for why they think this way.

people point to the crusades, pedos in the catholic church, mysogny, westboro baptists, and on and on. but these things dont come from jesus. these things dont come from the apostles.

it makes as much sense as blaming the vietnam war on john adams and thomas paine. i mean they wrote the constitution, right? all that business about liberty, checks and balances = wholesale slaughter of vietnamese civilians. and i dont need to actually read the document to know its all about justification for murdering brown people

Roach

religion in and of itself is a harmless set of ideals to live by. Upon studying several, you take what is of value to yourself personally, and leave the rest.


see sig.

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לזיין את הקופים

Sugar420

amen

~1~

Do not confuse my lack of religion with a lack of faith, although I tend to put my faith in this earth and these people around me because this is where I live today.


Belief in thousand year old texts and how that guy preaching interprets them for me isn't necessary to have the faith I possess. I know that the message is be good to each other and pitch in because we all have to live here even though modern religion tends to muddy that up with their need for earthly riches and sustenance in order to 'spread the word'.

Now to be fair, I am generalizing the art of the cloth as that of con men, shysters, cretins and crooks but especially of late, they don't do a whole bunch to make me want to have faith in them instead of everyone else.

Whether there is or isn't an all mighty and powerful being is yet to be seen but so far his sales staff is for shit.


How is that for sensible and rational for you?

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farmergiles

I think the world would be a better place if we respected other peoples' beliefs or lack thereof provided they do not impinge upon ourselves.

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