Can't reconcile the message with those who claim to follow it

Terry · 07-26-2011, 04:51 PM

So as anyone here who knows me has probably realized I've cooled on the anti-religious rhetoric lately and that evolved into a sort of tolerance which evolved into an interest which culminated in me being completely torn.

I have read the four books of the Apostles twice in the last month. To be clear I only read the words of the Messiah because his, in my view, are the only ones worth reading.

Christ's message appeals to me on SO MANY LEVELS. I love his righteous anger in the Temple, so much so paraphrasing it would be insulting so I'll just show it:

"And Jesus went into the temple of God, and cast out all of them who sold and bought in the temple, and overthrew the tables of the moneychangers, and the seats of them that sold doves,

And said unto them, It is written, My house shall be called the house of prayer; but ye have made it a den of thieves."

Jesus is able to sum up so well the worst of religion and the corruption and decadence it can succumb to. But his words ring true to me today. Today's "Christian Moral Majority" has bastardized Jesus' message, built superchurches with cafes and starbucks while they preach acquiring vast sums of wealth as a necessity, staunchly oppose Gay Rights, and pervade our culture with their made up, unbiblical philosophy.

See what makes it hard for me to want to become Christian is that for the most part these Christian churches are political and hypocritical. Christ's message has been so utterly bastardized. Some churches are formed over asinine issues like communion, predestination and speaking in tounges and it all makes me wonder; what would Christ say if he saw such division in his own herd?

What is it even to be Christian? Must I look for a church that agrees with me enough to be tolerable? I doubt there are many Christian socialist/pro Gay Rights and Marijuana churches out there. Is being a Christian merely reading and digesting Christ's words and deeds and trying to apply them into your life while remaining humble and with an open mind?

I dunno. Lot of questions. Probably more still I have forgotten. Needless to say it has been an interesting few months. That spiritual crevasse I have left dormant for so long seems to have sprung anew and I'm at a loss of how to proceed filling it.

The Rev · 07-26-2011, 05:03 PM

The moral high ground is a great place to launch attacks from, and for this reason, more than any other, it is sought. Putting Jesus' face on it is no more relevant than putting celebrity faces on consumer goods.

The Rev

deadhead94 · 07-26-2011, 05:07 PM

Historical Jesus might be confused as to why people worship him. He was a Jew and had no knowledge of the religion based on him that came after his death. He might even be pissed off that people use him as an idol.

farmergiles · 07-26-2011, 05:20 PM

Follow your heart Tezza

~1~ · 07-26-2011, 06:21 PM

“I like your Christ. I do not like your Christians. They are so unlike your Christ.”

-Gandhi

Cerpin Taxt · 07-26-2011, 07:02 PM

I would suggest to look into Eckhart Tolle, although he isn't for everyone. He is also of the belief that Jesus' teachings are still valid and useful, but the ways in which they have been interpreted are way off base.

Indeed, all religions point towards the same thing, yet have been abused through ego for centuries...

my_scatterheart · 07-26-2011, 07:26 PM

Take what you need and leave the rest.
I don't understand the need to subscribe to one religion as a whole if you don't necessarily dig it all. Certainly they must all have their own useful points. Why not collect them all graciously? It seems wasteful not to.

Cerpin Taxt · 07-26-2011, 07:50 PM

^ That's wassup

deadhead94 · 07-26-2011, 08:01 PM

This place confuses me. One would assume that a message board about marijuana would be populated with people that don't particularly enjoy being controlled and oppressed. But a lot of you seem to be pretty fucking eager to accept the oldest trick in the book when it comes to control and oppression.

my_scatterheart · 07-26-2011, 08:03 PM

What's oppressive is letting your life be confined by old definitions of what everything is. Anything can set you the fuck free, if you let it.

deadhead94 · 07-26-2011, 08:05 PM

religion has no place in the lives of rational adults in the 21st century.

my_scatterheart · 07-26-2011, 08:09 PM

Odd, what an oppressive opinion that would seem to be.

deadhead94 · 07-26-2011, 08:13 PM

If it was to get rid of religion, the ends justify the means. everyone would be better off.

farmergiles · 07-26-2011, 08:20 PM

I suggest a little more respect to the OP. Remember which forum this is. The guidelines are there if reminding is necessary.

Not you scatter

deadhead94 · 07-26-2011, 08:23 PM

So this forum is pretty much for stroking religion with no debate allowed.

Got it.

go jesus! we're #1!

Captain Cannabis · 07-26-2011, 08:53 PM

lol

Xil · 07-26-2011, 09:03 PM

i think looking at jesus' teachings its a lot more important to focus on how his message applies to you, rather than how other people follow them.

you don't have to subscribe to a specific church to be a christian, you just have to see the wisdom christ laid down. the churches who distort the message are loud and flashy, but the people who keep the true teachings alive are much more quiet. with christ teaching meekness, poverty, and peacefulness the good that exists is just kinda hard to see.

~1~ · 07-26-2011, 09:04 PM

Well I was gonna ask but, guess I figured it out.

Cerpin Taxt · 07-26-2011, 09:24 PM

I am now of the belief that deadhead's return was a last ditch cry for help. The guy really does seem to have hit the bottom and is clinging to the only thing left he has control over; rational thinking. Why else does he take it to such extremes?

fenderbender · 07-26-2011, 11:39 PM

lol at deadhead being banned. nice

The closest label that someone could give them self as to be like jesus would be to live the buddhist life IMO.

We need to ditch the labels and bring back the true message of the universe that has been discovered over and over again throughout history.

LOVE AND COMPASSION WORKS.
It will make you happy. It will make others happy. You will be loved. You will love. You will be content with your life, your place in it, and whatever "life" really is. You will have a power over your universe no money could ever buy.
You will be loved and content.

^the end goal of EVERYONE.

get with it already shiiiiiit

07-26-2011, 04:51 PM	#1 (permalink)
Terry Militant Pacifist Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Moscow, Idaho Posts: 8,535 Thanks: 2,128 Thanked 2,392 Times in 1,189 Posts	Can't reconcile the message with those who claim to follow it So as anyone here who knows me has probably realized I've cooled on the anti-religious rhetoric lately and that evolved into a sort of tolerance which evolved into an interest which culminated in me being completely torn. I have read the four books of the Apostles twice in the last month. To be clear I only read the words of the Messiah because his, in my view, are the only ones worth reading. Christ's message appeals to me on SO MANY LEVELS. I love his righteous anger in the Temple, so much so paraphrasing it would be insulting so I'll just show it: "And Jesus went into the temple of God, and cast out all of them who sold and bought in the temple, and overthrew the tables of the moneychangers, and the seats of them that sold doves, And said unto them, It is written, My house shall be called the house of prayer; but ye have made it a den of thieves." Jesus is able to sum up so well the worst of religion and the corruption and decadence it can succumb to. But his words ring true to me today. Today's "Christian Moral Majority" has bastardized Jesus' message, built superchurches with cafes and starbucks while they preach acquiring vast sums of wealth as a necessity, staunchly oppose Gay Rights, and pervade our culture with their made up, unbiblical philosophy. See what makes it hard for me to want to become Christian is that for the most part these Christian churches are political and hypocritical. Christ's message has been so utterly bastardized. Some churches are formed over asinine issues like communion, predestination and speaking in tounges and it all makes me wonder; what would Christ say if he saw such division in his own herd? What is it even to be Christian? Must I look for a church that agrees with me enough to be tolerable? I doubt there are many Christian socialist/pro Gay Rights and Marijuana churches out there. Is being a Christian merely reading and digesting Christ's words and deeds and trying to apply them into your life while remaining humble and with an open mind? I dunno. Lot of questions. Probably more still I have forgotten. Needless to say it has been an interesting few months. That spiritual crevasse I have left dormant for so long seems to have sprung anew and I'm at a loss of how to proceed filling it. __________________ There must be quite a few things that a hot bath won't cure, but I don't know many of them. -Sylvia Plath

07-26-2011, 05:03 PM	#2 (permalink)
The Rev Clear Light Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: In my head, somewhere. Posts: 17,865 Thanks: 5,018 Thanked 5,420 Times in 2,865 Posts	The moral high ground is a great place to launch attacks from, and for this reason, more than any other, it is sought. Putting Jesus' face on it is no more relevant than putting celebrity faces on consumer goods. The Rev __________________ Budforce - My Friend August 29, 1973- May 25, 2012

07-26-2011, 05:20 PM	#4 (permalink)
farmergiles Yahookan Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Sick of the hatred and the lies Posts: 7,807 Thanks: 2,285 Thanked 3,750 Times in 2,554 Posts	Follow your heart Tezza __________________ Cultivate a stoic calmness *Fuck the Monkeys* Every Kind of Vice

07-26-2011, 06:21 PM	#5 (permalink)
~1~ Successful Failure Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: where 'they' can't see. Posts: 10,925 Thanks: 466 Thanked 1,581 Times in 925 Posts	“I like your Christ. I do not like your Christians. They are so unlike your Christ.” -Gandhi __________________ "And those who are successful, be always on your guard. Success walks hand in hand with failure, along Hollywood Boulevard" Ray Davies --------------------------------------------------- --------------------------------------------------- Click Here Asshole

07-26-2011, 07:02 PM	#6 (permalink)
Cerpin Taxt Yahookan Zealot Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Canada Posts: 7,213 Blog Entries: 1 Thanks: 843 Thanked 1,919 Times in 1,011 Posts	I would suggest to look into Eckhart Tolle, although he isn't for everyone. He is also of the belief that Jesus' teachings are still valid and useful, but the ways in which they have been interpreted are way off base. Indeed, all religions point towards the same thing, yet have been abused through ego for centuries... __________________ Step Back. Evaluate. Recognize. "All memory is really a form of regurgitation of undigested experience." -Alan Watts

07-26-2011, 07:26 PM	#7 (permalink)
my_scatterheart Today, I am alive. Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: NJ Posts: 3,565 Thanks: 1,486 Thanked 3,328 Times in 1,870 Posts	Take what you need and leave the rest. I don't understand the need to subscribe to one religion as a whole if you don't necessarily dig it all. Certainly they must all have their own useful points. Why not collect them all graciously? It seems wasteful not to. __________________ Be mindful even if your mind is full. -J. De La Vega

07-26-2011, 07:50 PM	#8 (permalink)
Cerpin Taxt Yahookan Zealot Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Canada Posts: 7,213 Blog Entries: 1 Thanks: 843 Thanked 1,919 Times in 1,011 Posts	^ That's wassup __________________ Step Back. Evaluate. Recognize. "All memory is really a form of regurgitation of undigested experience." -Alan Watts

07-26-2011, 08:03 PM	#10 (permalink)
my_scatterheart Today, I am alive. Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: NJ Posts: 3,565 Thanks: 1,486 Thanked 3,328 Times in 1,870 Posts	What's oppressive is letting your life be confined by old definitions of what everything is. Anything can set you the fuck free, if you let it. __________________ Be mindful even if your mind is full. -J. De La Vega Last edited by my_scatterheart; 07-26-2011 at 08:03 PM. Reason: grammaz

07-26-2011, 08:09 PM	#12 (permalink)
my_scatterheart Today, I am alive. Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: NJ Posts: 3,565 Thanks: 1,486 Thanked 3,328 Times in 1,870 Posts	Odd, what an oppressive opinion that would seem to be. __________________ Be mindful even if your mind is full. -J. De La Vega

07-26-2011, 08:20 PM	#14 (permalink)
farmergiles Yahookan Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Sick of the hatred and the lies Posts: 7,807 Thanks: 2,285 Thanked 3,750 Times in 2,554 Posts	I suggest a little more respect to the OP. Remember which forum this is. The guidelines are there if reminding is necessary. Not you scatter __________________ Cultivate a stoic calmness *Fuck the Monkeys* Every Kind of Vice

07-26-2011, 08:53 PM	#16 (permalink)
Captain Cannabis safety word: more Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: m.i.a. Posts: 13,922 Thanks: 2,705 Thanked 3,174 Times in 1,812 Posts	lol __________________ fuck the monkeys

07-26-2011, 09:03 PM	#17 (permalink)
Xil OD'ing on sobriety Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Mizzura Posts: 3,334 Blog Entries: 1 Thanks: 1,036 Thanked 1,158 Times in 717 Posts	i think looking at jesus' teachings its a lot more important to focus on how his message applies to you, rather than how other people follow them. you don't have to subscribe to a specific church to be a christian, you just have to see the wisdom christ laid down. the churches who distort the message are loud and flashy, but the people who keep the true teachings alive are much more quiet. with christ teaching meekness, poverty, and peacefulness the good that exists is just kinda hard to see. __________________ "we'll show these fascists what a couple of hillbillies can do"

07-26-2011, 09:04 PM	#18 (permalink)
~1~ Successful Failure Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: where 'they' can't see. Posts: 10,925 Thanks: 466 Thanked 1,581 Times in 925 Posts	Well I was gonna ask but, guess I figured it out. __________________ "And those who are successful, be always on your guard. Success walks hand in hand with failure, along Hollywood Boulevard" Ray Davies --------------------------------------------------- --------------------------------------------------- Click Here Asshole

07-26-2011, 09:24 PM	#19 (permalink)
Cerpin Taxt Yahookan Zealot Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Canada Posts: 7,213 Blog Entries: 1 Thanks: 843 Thanked 1,919 Times in 1,011 Posts	I am now of the belief that deadhead's return was a last ditch cry for help. The guy really does seem to have hit the bottom and is clinging to the only thing left he has control over; rational thinking. Why else does he take it to such extremes? __________________ Step Back. Evaluate. Recognize. "All memory is really a form of regurgitation of undigested experience." -Alan Watts

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