Sugar420

if evolution is real, then isnt it possible, or even likely that religious feeling and religious belief has some evolutionary benefit?
if not, then why not? i cant see any reason to think spirituality doesnt come from natural selection or isnt genetically beneficial.

some might say that religious feeling does arise through evolutionary processes, but now people are evolving beyond it. this isnt convincing to me, because it sounds like a personal opinion without any objective evidence to show it is true. religion seems to be on the decline in recent modern times, but since we only have a few thousand years of history to look at, that's too short a time span to say with any certainty that natural selection is going in any particular direction.

evolution only tells us what has happened, not what is happening or is going to happen. what has happened is that people have evolved with logic and emotions and a sense of the spiritual. it doesnt make any sense to campaign against something that naturally exists as a natural consequence of natural processes that started long before humans ever existed.

therefore it follows that an atheist is sort of like a colorblind person that insists no one else has any color sense, and that everyone ought to stop pretending they do because pretending to sense color causes too many problems.

Lloydy

Would a person who was kept isolated from religion their whole life feel any sense of spirituality? Its an interesting thought.

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farmergiles

Who is campaigning?
There have been a few of these threads telling atheists that their beliefs are all wrong- without seeming to understand much about what atheists believe.
I find it rude tbh.

But in answer to your question, meditation- and shared ritual- put people in a certain mental state which can be beneficial.

The effects are similar whether the meditation or ritual are invested with religious significance or not.

If you want to imbue your rituals and meditation with christian meaning that is your prerogative.

Perhaps deadhead will argue with you.

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Sir-Ex

"if evolution is real, then isnt it possible, or even likely that religious feeling and religious belief has some evolutionary benefit?"

Of course there'd be an evolutionary benefit to religious thinking if it helps support the ego's ability to deal with reality.

"it doesnt make any sense to campaign against something that naturally exists as a natural consequence of natural processes that started long before humans ever existed."


Everything that happens is a result of natural processes, including counter-religious thoughts.

"therefore it follows that an atheist is sort of like a colorblind person that insists no one else has any color sense, and that everyone ought to stop pretending they do because pretending to sense color causes too many problems."

No, an atheist is someone who believes there is no god. They are the antithesis to someone who believes in god, and are essentially just the other side of the same coin. Obviously you'll never see eye to eye with an atheist because.. y'know, you two are heads and tails. By your display of logic, the following statement is also true:

"therefore it follows that a Christian is sort of like a person that only sees red, that insists no one else can see any colour but red, and that everyone ought to stop pretending they do because pretending to sense any colour but red causes too many problems."

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farmergiles

I'd describe myself as an atheist- which means to me I find it ludicrously unlikely that there is any entity for instance such as that described by Abrahamic religions.

I understand that I have no direct evidence that there is no god- so the lack of evidence (in my eyes) of god is not proof that there is no god. That is an inductive argument therefore cannot be taken as fact.

So to say that I believe there is no god is wrong.

Hmm raves, football matches? Any event with a big crowd and singing or music and a shared ritual.

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deadhead94

I have something to say but I'm not high enough and too distracted to type it.

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Sir-Ex

Then technically you're not an atheist, but definitely leaning toward that extreme.

The term atheist, by definition, describes someone who disbelieves in God, or some sort of supreme deity. To 'disbelieve' in God is to believe there is no God. If you believe there might be a God, but won't concede to truly believe in one, you're describing an agnostic viewpoint.


Anyway, I'm not atheist or agnostic, and I'm getting off topic, waiting for Sugar's reply.

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Roach

nope

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farmergiles

Well thanks for telling me what I believe Ex . You describe a dogmatic atheist

Shit gets old.

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Lloydy

Exactly, if I'd never heard of football in my life I wouldnt feel a connection to a team, football isnt built into the human psyche. Is spirituality? Fuck knows thats not as clear cut.
Oh and football>religion

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Sir-Ex

I don't care what you believe. Believe what you want. I don't know what you believe, nor do I believe I ever told you what you believed. Lol. I'm just taking your description and running it through the cut and dry definitions of the words themselves.


I don't appreciate you accusing me of something I didn't do. Seriously. Believe what you want. I don't give a fuck.

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Black

I'm a very spiritual person but do not hold any religios beleifs what so ever.

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farmergiles

Atheism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia At least read the first paragraph before stating what atheism is.

Your level of ignorance is depressing.

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Sir-Ex

Okay, you win. You were right, and I was wrong. I had a false understanding of the true meaning of atheism.


Perhaps you'll be less depressed now, having delivered me from this level of ignorance.




Perhaps in the future you might be less condescending, huh?

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Roach

Like christianity, it has various definitions, depending on the argument/discussion at hand.


...just sayin

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Sugar420

well i dont suppose you have to believe in monotheism, or any kind of theism to be religious, and i didnt think my original post was coming at this from a strictly christian viewpoint.
im not arguing against atheism specifically, more like refuting anti-religion or anti-spiritual thinking in general.

it just seemed like a kind of paradox to me: if natural forces inherent in reality shaped human development to go a certain way, then how can we justify saying that this particular way is "wrong" or incorrect or not beneficial? from an objective or scientific standpoint you cant.

Roach

psycopaths and misanthropes often explain their actions in a similar manner.

exactly, however some have not evolved past religion...yet.

just adding fuel to the discussion.

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Geeno

I think its natural to project our feelings on to other things around us. I would bet a feral human would do this, empathize and personify.

But I think religion and spirituality is entirely learned and basically gay.

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Sugar420

i already covered the idea of "evolving past religion" -this is an speculative opinion with no objective basis, nothing scientific or logical about such a view.

i think it is. if not, then where does it come from?

farmergiles

We can't, it patently is beneficial.

I think I read some study on Auyusca (sp?) ceremonies that show the participants tend to have increased mental wellbeing.

A lot of people go to church go because it makes them feel better and they enjoy it.

-etc.

That's all good as long as people get to choose what they want to do and what meaning they ascribe to it.

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