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Old 01-24-2012, 07:28 PM   #1 (permalink)
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The God of the Bible

The God described in the Bible is straight up evil. There's no way around that. He's killed millions of people, some for no greater offense than not being sufficiently excited about Him. He's not only the one who sends people to Hell, He invented the place. He's ordered Genocide and mass slaughter...

Yet, people insist that He is the source of all good. This is the greatest irony of the whole thing, IMO.

I'm generally pretty okay with the whole live and let live approach to religion. Believe what you want, especially if it brings out the best in you. But I am baffled by those who worship the Biblical Uber Tyrant. Is it all out of fear? The Bible says that a petty mass killer is good, and if you don't agree, He will fuck you up for eternity, so you'd better get with the program?

This is the worst kind of spirituality imaginable: one that generates the kind of fear that twists the mind and turns people against each other. If you think your God is and Awesome God, you need to think again.



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Old 01-24-2012, 07:48 PM   #2 (permalink)
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The longest Fairy Tale evah.
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Old 01-24-2012, 07:57 PM   #3 (permalink)
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My son is studying for his first communion. He is seven and goes to Sunday School and is learning all this Catholicism BS as it is my wife's desire. I was brought up catholic as well and learned reality on my own. However, I am committed to being 100% honest with my son.

So last night he brought up hell. I said that I don't necessarily believe in the Bible and that any god that would send a person to burn forever is not a god I wot to be apart of. I told him that believing in God requires PURE faith and I attempted to explain what faith was (dogma), emphasizing that one persons belief (e.g. god) is not better than another person's belief/god, that everyone is to be respected. I added that you should judge yourself by how you act towards peers emphasizing values of helping common man. I then I talked briefly of other religions to bring home this point.
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Old 01-25-2012, 09:40 AM   #4 (permalink)
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These threads are always very even kiltered and very reasonable on Yahooka.
Everyone gets their chance to be heard and understood.
Respect is present in every post.


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Old 01-25-2012, 10:34 AM   #5 (permalink)
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I think the Bible is outdated. Perhaps some of the stories outlined within meant something to more primitive people, but many parts are completely irrelevant to modern society. There are a few things I keep with me, things I learned from the Bible in my childhood. But now that I'm an adult with my own journeys, thoughts, and experiences to rely on, I find that "God" as I know it is a feeling I have. If I'm partaking in something that is harmful to myself or another human being, I get an overall shitty feeling about what I'm doing.

This little voice that leads most sane individuals to know the difference between right and wrong can be viewed many ways. You can call it a conscience, a moral compass, or perhaps a spiritual being whispering in your ear how to be your best. But I will say that a huge portion of the Bible, or at least some of the interpretations of various religious texts and the ways people use their beliefs to justify being awful to other people, gives me a dirty feeling. I can't really describe it other than my body gives me warnings that what I am experiencing is not from a place of love. Sometimes this feeling is so strong that it reaches beyond an emotional reaction and becomes physical. My hairs will stand on end, and I get chills and an overall feeling of discomfort.

A good example was a Baptist church my husband and I attended in Texas (not necessarily by choice, it meant a lot to a family member so we put aside our own preferences). The preacher began speaking out about the gay community, turning his sermon into a rant against this group of "sinners". My body was sending me signals that this guy's message was coming from a dark place. It was as if my own moral code had alerts going off, telling me not to listen to this guy or absorb any of his message. I wanted very much to get up and leave, and as I looked over at my husband I could tell he was feeling the same way. But the rest of the congregation seemed fine. I think sometimes people replace their own internal feelings of right and wrong with things people feed to them. They trust some preacher or some book more than they trust their own intuition, or maybe they can't even hear their own beliefs anymore.

That gut feeling is what I rely on more than anything else. And if something in the Bible sets off a creepy feeling in me, I discard the biblical idea and go with my own concept of what is true and righteous. I mentioned this technique to a friend of mine who got a look on his face as if he feared for my soul. To some it is blasphemous to be distrustful of things that are written in the pages of a holy book, but I am more concerned about people who are unable to use a critical mind and a sixth sense to determine the difference between good and evil.
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Old 01-25-2012, 02:44 PM   #6 (permalink)
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the issue with this royal asshole, is that as invented by bronze era ignorant desert dwellers as he is, millions today regard him as his god.

if only emperor Constantine had chosen another religion as the ruling belief for the roman empire, there would be other god around, granted, but maybe a more benevolaent one?
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Old 01-25-2012, 03:01 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Seriously spiritual shit guys.
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Old 01-25-2012, 05:01 PM   #8 (permalink)
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I wrote a 1 page essay on why the Biblical God is a an ignorant asshole (in nicer words) for my Gr12 Religion class I actually got a pretty good mark.
It bothers me that a whole religion is based off this silly book.
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Old 01-25-2012, 06:36 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by The Rev View Post
The God described in the Bible is straight up evil. There's no way around that. He's killed millions of people, some for no greater offense than not being sufficiently excited about Him. He's not only the one who sends people to Hell, He invented the place. He's ordered Genocide and mass slaughter...

Yet, people insist that He is the source of all good. This is the greatest irony of the whole thing, IMO.

I'm generally pretty okay with the whole live and let live approach to religion. Believe what you want, especially if it brings out the best in you. But I am baffled by those who worship the Biblical Uber Tyrant. Is it all out of fear? The Bible says that a petty mass killer is good, and if you don't agree, He will fuck you up for eternity, so you'd better get with the program?

This is the worst kind of spirituality imaginable: one that generates the kind of fear that twists the mind and turns people against each other. If you think your God is and Awesome God, you need to think again.



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Rev, have you read about the problem of evil?


My take is that the Bible was written and is interpreted by man. We probably fucked something up between the man and the book and the book and the people. I don't think JC and his boys would have been down with people marching thousands of miles across a continent to kill people only because they believe in another god.
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wake up, call some girl you know, give her the sob story, get some and get fed... it surprisingly works more often than you would think... its the whole motherly instinct thing...
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Old 01-25-2012, 09:41 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Problem of evil - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I think the problem of evil is a problem with omnipotence. Infinity is just not compatible with a world of finites. The old "Can God microwave a burrito too hot for Him to eat" arguments sum the contradiction issues there pretty well.

My problem is, how can people worship a being that kills firstborns to make a point, sends people on errands of genocide, tortures people for eternity for disobeying Him, etc? There is such a HUGE act of cognitive dissonance there. A total refusal to confront a real problem in the book which lays the foundation of all the Abrahamic religions, and it's billions of adherents.

For me, it's a problem with people, not so much God. I don't think the stories in the bible describe any being that actually exists. It's people, who insist that He does exist, is that being described, AND is the fountainhead of all Goodness, that I have a problem with. That we, as a species, are capable of literally shutting out our own reason and judgement, on such a massive scale, and to the degree that we murder one another on similarly massive scales rather than think, really makes me wonder if humanity deserves to survive. We're kinda fucktards.



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Old 01-26-2012, 12:02 AM   #11 (permalink)
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NPR: Is the Qur'an more violent than the Bible? (Audio)

Is The Bible More Violent Than The Quran? : NPR (article)
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Old 01-26-2012, 07:52 AM   #12 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Rev View Post
Problem of evil - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I think the problem of evil is a problem with omnipotence. Infinity is just not compatible with a world of finites. The old "Can God microwave a burrito too hot for Him to eat" arguments sum the contradiction issues there pretty well.

My problem is, how can people worship a being that kills firstborns to make a point, sends people on errands of genocide, tortures people for eternity for disobeying Him, etc? There is such a HUGE act of cognitive dissonance there. A total refusal to confront a real problem in the book which lays the foundation of all the Abrahamic religions, and it's billions of adherents.

For me, it's a problem with people, not so much God. I don't think the stories in the bible describe any being that actually exists. It's people, who insist that He does exist, is that being described, AND is the fountainhead of all Goodness, that I have a problem with. That we, as a species, are capable of literally shutting out our own reason and judgement, on such a massive scale, and to the degree that we murder one another on similarly massive scales rather than think, really makes me wonder if humanity deserves to survive. We're kinda fucktards.



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Some months ago a couple of Jehova´s witness knock on my door. I really enjoy giving them a hard time.

After trying to convince that Jehova is benevolent god, I pointed out that he wasn´t, and I gave them many examples of his barbaric actions, and asked them to answer just ona question: if he was a merry old chap, how could he possibly have wiped out Jercho like that, after beating around the bush for a while they told me they would come back with the answer later, to which I pointed out that if they had to go and think about it then it was not an easy thing to respond, they left and never came back with said satisfactory answer.
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Old 01-26-2012, 05:05 PM   #13 (permalink)
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I always found that the Bible was clearly written by different people. I mean, look how different God is in Revelations than the rest.

Revelations is almost an acid trip.
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Old 01-26-2012, 05:10 PM   #14 (permalink)
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I always found that the Bible was clearly written by different people. I mean, look how different God is in Revelations than the rest.

Revelations is almost an acid trip.
It's funny that you say that, because I said something similar to my son a while back. John had been exiled on the Isle of Patmos, and had been living there alone for quite some time when the creative urge overcame him. I figured it had more to do with experimenting with the local flora than actually seeing Jesus appear. That and insanity brought on by isolation.



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Old 01-26-2012, 05:23 PM   #15 (permalink)
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All this shit is silly.



The only thing I occasionally get my panties in a twist about is this idea that as I'm dying, there'll be this voice in my head guiding me toward death, telling me that I should be ready for what's going to happen, and it asks me if I'm ready. And my answer is I don't know if I'm ready. I don't know what I'm waiting for. And the voice says something like 'oh just you wait'.

And then the kicker is that when the veil is lifted, it's nothing at all.
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Old 01-26-2012, 07:03 PM   #16 (permalink)
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I've been sort of day dreaming a lot lately about what life is / how and why everything is. One thing for sure is that it is the craziest most beautiful thing imaginable! Our innocence is the most beautiful part of it, as we experience being right in the middle of space and time in one of perhaps infinite universes and what even beyond that?? We don't know! It's so awesome to just be so innocently.

christianity/many religions take such an awesome reality and cram it right into a fucking cage with locks made of fear and bars made of faith.

So live and let live, but for the ones who wish to live a truly free life, sometimes the moral majority is very hard not to hate. For unfortunate children who are born into their "faith" it is much less likely they will ever experience the true freedom of life.
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Old 01-26-2012, 08:13 PM   #17 (permalink)
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I always found that the Bible was clearly written by different people.
dude, you know it was if you followed your EYF back in the day.

I had the advantage of studying under a priest who read to us from the Hebrew bible .
(He was Canadian and spoke/read english ,french and hebrew.)

The king james version, is just that. There have been several versions, each one is different.

The most recent New living bible, is quite different from the hebrew version.

Any who gets the opportunity to have someone read/translate it to them would probably enjoy it alot more than recent versions mostly because of the style and the story itself.

Tho I doubt you would be convinced even after, that it is anything more than an interesting fiction.

As I have.
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Old 01-26-2012, 08:21 PM   #18 (permalink)
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The king james version, is just that. There have been several versions, each one is different.
Wikipedia puts this better than I could outline it:



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Style and criticism

A primary concern of the translators was to produce a Bible that would be appropriate, dignified and resonant in public reading. Although the Authorized Version's written style is an important part of its influence on English, research has found only one verse—Hebrews 13:8—for which translators debated the wording's literary merits. While they stated in the preface that they used stylistic variation, finding multiple English words or verbal forms in places where the original language employed repetition, in practice they also did the opposite; for example, 14 different Hebrew words were translated into the single English word "prince".

In a period of rapid linguistic change the translators avoided contemporary idioms, tending instead towards forms that were already slightly archaic, like verily and it came to pass. The pronouns thou/thee and you are consistently used as singular and plural respectively, even though by this time you was often found as the singular in general English usage, especially when addressing a social superior (as is evidenced, for example, in Shakespeare). For the possessive of the third person pronoun, the word its, first recorded in the Oxford English Dictionary in 1598, is avoided. The older his is usually employed, as for example at Matthew 5:13: "if the salt have lost his savour, wherewith shall it be salted?"; in other places of it, thereof or bare it are found. Another sign of linguistic conservativism is the invariable use of -eth for the third person singular present form of the verb, as at Matthew 2:13: "the Angel of the Lord appeareth to Joseph in a dreame". The rival ending -(e)s, as found in present-day English, was already widely used by this time (for example, it predominates over -eth in the plays of Shakespeare and Marlowe). Furthermore, the translators preferred which in preference to who or whom as the relative pronoun for persons, as in Genesis 13:5: "And Lot also which went with Abram, had flocks and heards, & tents" although who(m) is also found.

The Authorized Version is notably more Latinate than previous English version especially the Geneva Bible. This results in part from the academic stylistic preferences of a number of the translators—several of whom admitted to being more comfortable writing in Latin than in English—but was also, in part, a consequence of the royal proscription against explanatory notes. Hence, where the Geneva Bible might use a common English word—and gloss its particular application in a marginal note—the Authorized Version tends rather to prefer a technical term, frequently in Anglicised Latin. Consequently, although the King had instructed the translators to use the Bishops' Bible as a base text, the New Testament in particular owes much stylistically to the Catholic Rheims New Testament, whose translators had also been concerned to find English equivalents for Latin terminology. In addition, the translators of the New Testament books habitually quote Old Testament names in the renderings familiar from the Vulgate Latin, rather than in their Hebrew forms (e.g. "Elias", "Jeremias" for "Elijah", "Jeremiah").

While the Authorized Version remains among the most widely sold, modern critical New Testament translations differ substantially from it in a number of passages, primarily because they rely on source manuscripts not then accessible to (or not then highly regarded by) early 17th-century Biblical scholarship. In the Old Testament, there are also many differences from modern translations that are based not on manuscript differences, but on a different understanding of Ancient Hebrew vocabulary or grammar by the translators. For example, in modern translations it is clear that Job 28: 1-11 is referring throughout to mining operations, which is not at all apparent from the text of the Authorized Version.
tldr; is that KJV is junk translation wise.



I prefer the Oxford's Annotated New Revised Standard Version, as it's had consultation of many branches from Christianity, some which I doubt some folks even know exist in the Eastern/Orthodox Church. It includes the books of these various branches, which can't be found in other branches Canon.

Also, they had Rabbis and other Hebrew experts adding to the portions of the 'Old Testament', much of which is The Hebrew Bible.

For that I prefer the NSRV.
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Old 01-26-2012, 08:23 PM   #19 (permalink)
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It's funny that you say that, because I said something similar to my son a while back. John had been exiled on the Isle of Patmos, and had been living there alone for quite some time when the creative urge overcame him. I figured it had more to do with experimenting with the local flora than actually seeing Jesus appear. That and insanity brought on by isolation.



The Rev

The Revelation of John was one of many apocalyptic books floating around at the time, the selection of John's was rather random in my understanding.

It wasn't officially canonized until sometime between 397 and 419 CE.

Textual scholars believe that John the Apostle, John the Evangelist and John of Patmos were 3 different people based on the style of writing as well as word choice and understanding of Greek.

The Nag Hammadi Library was the Gnostic library uncovered in the 40s, which has provided a lot of light on the Bible as we know it, as well as being able to gain some cultural/social information/norms/philosophy during the early years of Pre-Roman Christianity.
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Old 01-26-2012, 08:26 PM   #20 (permalink)
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So you agree ?
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