Galt

No need to be so gracious about it Ad, although the effort is certainly noted and appreciated. I don't have any hard and fast arbitrary rules about government fucked clusters, I've just lived too long and seen too much to ignore the probabilities. They DO up fuck everything that they touch, and it is realistically impossible for them to be efficient in anything that they do. That is the premise from which we begin when evaluating anything with the government stink upon it. From there, they drive the car off of the road, into the ditch roll it over and set it on fire all by themselves.

The fact that government has partnered with select elements of our economy to pick the proverbial winners and losers is not an over statement. The crony capitalism and corporate welfare that you hear so much blather about is but one side of the overall impact that we are left to deal with. Take the FDA for example, (and I am taking this from a friend's wife who has just retired from thre as a very high level POS that had her hand in a lot of pooh).

Company wants to get a drug approved for saaaay ADD maybe. They need to run all kinds of trials and what are called double blind studies, or at least they are supposed to. Let's say that they run the study and the results don't look good for the new wonder drug. Maybe it does just a teensie bit more liver and kidney damage than they had hoped, and maybe it only kind'a sort'a works some of the time... once in a while. Well, in this case, they just fiddle with the standard deviation, disallow any unfavorable blocking of confounding variables and voila, you hear all the time that you can make statistics agree with anything don't ya... well that is the basis for analyzing these drug studies, statistical analysis and their resulting correlations. Anybody can and does fuck with raw data all of the time, just to save their ego or reputation a few bumps and bruises.

Now add the pressures of political influence, Congressmen that get a heads up on everything new and pending approval, as well as having the opportunity to craft or influence legislation that will help a drug get approved, or create a market monopoly, or avoid liability for fucking people up. The coup de grace is when you compound this bullshit with a government run system of guaranteed pay for drugs, along with a medical community that is more focused on boutique practices wired into a cross referral and testing scam that churns reimbursement billings for them like a steam engine. A quick look around the country at our latest med school grads will illustrate a crew that is the most deft in our history with the prescription pad, but maybe not so much with the diagnostic intuition. The money is in running tests, and using those tests to justify putting people on drug treatment therapies that are for life. They are not designed to cure, they are designed to keep you alive and paying, albeit through your government or private insurance, 'cuz if you ever really understood how much they were all making, you'd be outraged.

The study gambit is more elaborate of a sham than I've illuminated, but the point is made I feel. If there is more that you wish to know or understand about the rationale for NEVER trusting the system, particularly where your health is concerned, I'd be more than happy to elaborate on any or all, but it has been hinted at that I tend toward being a bit verbose... so I'll cut this one short.

__________________
"I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use."
- Galileo Galilei (1564-1642)
_________________

"Nothing in the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity."
- Martin Luther King Jr. (1929-1968)

Galt

eld... how perfect!

__________________
"I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use."
- Galileo Galilei (1564-1642)
_________________

"Nothing in the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity."
- Martin Luther King Jr. (1929-1968)

Terry

Think I had her for homeroom.

__________________
There must be quite a few things that a hot bath won't cure, but I don't know many of them.

-Sylvia Plath

Qui-Bong Jinn

I've been taking adderall off and on for the past 10 years, its an odd drug, I stopped taking it now since it causes me to have anxiety attacks, but if you are set on taking it the best advice would be to start of slow, if the Doctor gives you 30mgs try taking half of it at the start just to get used of it. I did this and I stopped getting anxiety attacks.

Other than that I don't know what to tell you, I don't really know much about it. I've never felt and urge to take it or and withdrawal from it.

It also seems to be popular with the college students, you might be able to make some money on the side.

Sir-Ex

I guess it would be hypocritical of me call that a great idea, then to take advantage of free coverage, fake the condition, get a script, and then sell it to the youth huh?

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Smile

Ditch the cigs!!!!!!

adventure

Yea... I don't need the extra cash that bad....... but thanks

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Coming Full Range

SageTree

You aren't TC crazy Ex.... cause you admit there is actual stuff that goes on in the brain, rather than just saying, 'mental health problems don't exist', which is what Tom says... that 'they are just a crutch'.

The 'last resort' I agree with, which is pretty much why I said all I did say, there are a lot of alternatives.

I'm not pro pills by a long shot.... but I'm not 100% against them if other options have been explored and exhausted.

I was on paxil when I was 16 for like 6 months and it helped me...
Was I depressed?
Probably not enough to need a pill, but I had a GP I trusted so on and so forth.
I could have done just as well with counseling I suspect....
And several years later I did and with great success.

And that experience has tempered my taste for pills.
In that I know they aren't going to kill me on the short term, that they help in the short term.
But also having gone to counseling for the roots of the issue, I seriously advocate talking with someone first and for a while.

Right on Adventure.

Not asking you to defend yourself here....

One question I had was "What, out of what you said, is THE one question you came in here to ask us? What did you want/hope to happen?









Galt....

As you can see I'm engaging somewhat, but just to say that,

I find it hard to talk with people when THEY have already made up THEIR mind and want to put it out there with out being argued with... want to be the Pharaoh themselves......

BUT....

The difference here is that I chose not to pretend like I'm going to have a conversation, which I think was pretty open and honest with you all so you don't waste your time typing out long responses in reply.


What I meant to imply is that '
This is what I think, I'm talking to Adventure, I'm not going to engage others'.

You were right about the pill dr, my typo, and I amended accordingly.

And as far as what I bold/italicized...

You can pretty much say that same thing about ANY job or line of work.

I'm sure we could match each other story for story....
So doesn't that mean Adventure only has a 50/50, 'good/bad' chance for finding a good person to talk with?

I'm sorry you've had sour experiences man. Mental health isn't the joke...

Medicines/Doctors for profit is the joke.

What people don't know enough about is THEY have the power in the situation.
THEY can walk away.
The MHP is there for THEM.
THEY aren't there for the MHP.

The power structure is what messes up the social/community benefits imo...

People don't settle for it with MDs, so why do people with MHPs?

If there was less stigma on MH then maybe people could be more informed to make good choices, ya know?


/engagement


Galt... I like you dude... don't get me wrong.
We have obviously had different experiences or drawn different conclusions from them, and that is ok.

So hope you appreciated my engaging with you.

But I still hold true to saying I'm being honest here and not pretending like I'm talking to any more than Adventure, HE'S the one who is asking us... and I'm just making it clear I'm not asking for anyone else's but Adventure's opinion.

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adventure

Believe me I have had my share of doctors that really test your faith in the practice, but I have also had doctors who make me believe in angels! I think a lot of people enjoy only seeing the negative or but too much emphasis the negative. I might but to much faith in people and block out the negative. I don't know.

and for Sage first off stop selling my words....

I'm not really sure what I was long for when I posted this. I guess I just want to type it out. and see what happens. I knew I was going to get a lot of flack, but that's OK. I was maybe hoping for more first hand experiences. especial people taking ADD meds as an adult..

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Coming Full Range

Galt

...but ya see, it's completely different when I'm playin' Pharoh... 'cuz it's not an act.

My bad on the "engagement" issue.

Fuck it let's just get married!

Points on the MH system are spot on, and particularly about being your own best advocate, especially nowadays.

I just have a seriously negstive reflexive impulse where the happy pill fuckers are concerned. Spend a little time reading the lit on any of that shit and you'll never take any of it.

One of the last of several signs of the impending apocalypse: when they began allowing lawyers and drug companies to advertise on television and radio.

__________________
"I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use."
- Galileo Galilei (1564-1642)
_________________

"Nothing in the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity."
- Martin Luther King Jr. (1929-1968)

SageTree

Let's let the people go dude!

Oooooo Bay-Beh!!!! I can't deny my love




I feel it's fair to let you in at this point on some info that might be considered a bias:

My Wife is one of the good people you speak of...
She is a Master level counselor. Her philosophy is different than some and not Western in all ways. I've learned a lot of good things from her and in reading/editing/studying her papers...
Things that have contributed to my own outlook and anaylsis of life, meaningful relationships and connectedness to life.

Also, I myself have been accepted into a human services certificate program which will allow me to be a better 'friend' to people where ever I'm working be it in a drop in centre, hospice, as a community advocate and in all sort of what I call 'Peace Work'.

One of the most valuable things I've learned myself is client, patient relationship and how the 'power' exists in the situation.

Patient centeredness is where I try to reside and is something that one can practice and wholly integrate into one's engagement with one in need.

I to this point have only done a 'spiritual counseling' volunteer job on my off season from plants, and I found that maybe I am ready to move on from plant to human tissue

But to be fair, this is where I come from on that matter and think you ought to know.


I'm not a pill advocate, although I'm not an extremist either, so I don't renounce them completely either as I feel there are times they DO actually help.

How they are given out I usually disagree with.

I think that with counseling and a combination w/ pills can sometimes help people be at ease enough to face their issues and get REAL LIFE tools to help them after the fact.

I did take paxil for 6 months when I was 16 like I said and after the seriously bumpy stuff I stopped very easily and did well for many years until I finally decided to go to counseling and get more to the root of my issues, one of which was serious and raging anger, and that might be surprising to some.

Longterm pills, in 99% of the cases isn't what I think is best, although I do believe there are genuine times when they are best. Some imbalances aren't easy to do w/out them.

I can't pretend like I don't know the pill happy folks and pushers you are talking about and that is a side of ALL health care unfortunately.

Over all, I think the power paradigm is the biggest issue in most health fields of which mental health isn't excluded.

People like my Wife and I want to change that. And I know there are more.

I saw this today and thought of you to close on a light note



I think it's fair to say we're both on the skepticism and questioning side of life, having more questions about things than answers and always checking and double checking the 'systems' in our world.


Ultimately I know you're in this to have a peaceful world and not just stirring the pot... so thanks for hacking it out and being real with each other.


One thing you might not know about Canada is they don't really advertise the way they do in the States at all.

You're allow to say 'Viagra, ask your doctor if it's right for you', but nothing else, and it's usually a 2 second commercial but are WAY WAY less prevalent.


One of social medicine's strong points.

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SageTree

Well, I'm gad you found someone and a way that you feel is going to work and help you along.

Are you going to continue counseling?

If I could add something here...

If you feel like half a pill from your boss helps, then maybe figure out what the dose is and see if you can't talk the doctor into starting you there.
Go low ya know?

That way if you feel like you're ready to stop them you'll be more able to just step off and continue on with counseling if need be.

I see pills as a tool, but I've seen plenty of people who become a tool once they are on them and it's sad to me.

So I'm not going to blast you here, I'm glad you feel ready and are at least doing anything to help yourself be a better, more at peace person.

My only encouragement is to keep a close watch on the effects and not getting caught up in too strong a pill.

Good luck man.

You're the one in control of your health and well being destiny.... don't be scared to assert that if they aren't being helpful in aiding you along anymore.

To you man! Cheers.
SageTree

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Qui-Bong Jinn

I was diagnosed with ADHD when I was around 7-8 years old, and this was after I stopped taking them, I sold what I had left, and only to my friends.

Not like I pretended to keep taking them just so I could sell them.