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Old 02-13-2012, 07:04 AM   #1 (permalink)
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Be all that you can be

So lately I have been thinking about taking Adderall or Ritalin. I am not sure if I have ADD, who really knows. I am quite dyslexic, I can't focus well... its several smaller things that have effected me my whole life. I was never diagnosed with ADD in grade school. I think in grade school they really save that for the kids with ADHD the hyper kids.

I have taken my bosses Adderall several times. I usually take half of a pill. This does not really get my high, per se, it just clears my mind and helps me focus. I feel like everything I do is better. I want to be a better person. I do not want to do other drugs. I have an opiate problem, and if I take a small dose of Adderall I do not want to take opiates. I have a different point of view with them. I don't have that craving, "Oh I want to eat them all." I look at it like, " Oh I really should not take those, I really don't need them, I am not going to take them now"
I eat pretty well normally, but when I'm on Adderall, I really go out of my way to eat better. I make meal plans and exercise plans.
I am horrible with bills, I don't know why, but they don't weight heavily on my conscience like they should. But when I am take Adderall I do not want them to linger, I address them right away.
I am going start school in the summer and I really have a hard time focusing. certain classes, history, politic Science etc. I can pay attention to, but for others its nearly impossible. I end up focusing on trying to pay attention, and forget the whole lecture.
A huge aspect of the school work is my grammar.... as many of you know (I am sure) my grammar is horrible. Its not that I don't know the rules its, just my brain and hands do not meet up. I am thinking something and my hands are writing something else. This is with hand writing as well. I will be thinking of words like.... thinking and write "things" "saw" for "was" "with" for "was" I add endings on to words that do not need them... I have to proof read every paper 10 times.

Ultimately my life would be better with a little "help" in it. I dont know if I am just looking for an easy escape. I know its not the healthiest choose, but it does improve my life. I am trying to figure out the pros and cons.
Thanks guys
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Old 02-13-2012, 07:28 AM   #2 (permalink)
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I would tell all that to a doctor.



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Old 02-13-2012, 07:37 AM   #3 (permalink)
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Pfffffft.



If people keep taking pills to 'fix' their brains, the only thing that's going to happen is shittier and shittier fucking brains with each successive generation.
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Old 02-13-2012, 07:51 AM   #4 (permalink)
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Pfffffft.



If people keep taking pills to 'fix' their brains, the only thing that's going to happen is shittier and shittier fucking brains with each successive generation.
Says the guy taking an anti-depressant.
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Old 02-13-2012, 07:57 AM   #5 (permalink)
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The brain evolved knowing the plant. Our ancestors from long ago smoked it, why else would there be receptors in our brains that work only for cannabanoids? You're comparing a millennia old symbiosis to a man made pharmaceutical.
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Old 02-13-2012, 08:02 AM   #6 (permalink)
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Now would taking a medication effect my DNA?
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Old 02-13-2012, 08:04 AM   #7 (permalink)
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All I'm saying is never have kids. Take what you want, but never look into the eyes of your offspring. This must never happen.



It begins and ends with you adventure.
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Old 02-13-2012, 08:06 AM   #8 (permalink)
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The brain evolved knowing the plant. Our ancestors from long ago smoked it, why else would there be receptors in our brains that work only for cannabanoids? You're comparing a millennia old symbiosis to a man made pharmaceutical.
You were criticizing AD's along with me in a previous thread now that I remember it. I confused you with someone else.

And adventure, you are an addict. You can learn how to get on top of your shit without drugs, maybe quit smoking pot, but you are too brainwashed to think like that. Now you just want to go doctor shopping. Be my guest you idiot.
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Old 02-13-2012, 08:08 AM   #9 (permalink)
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lol disregard my last statement. I'm going off course due to a dishonesty.

I should point out my original argument was created solely with the intention of masking my true feelings but to still dissuade you from ADD pills.



The truth is I look at these things as weaknesses and the people that use them as weaker for using them. The reason you're having these problems is because you haven't learned to think properly.
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Old 02-13-2012, 08:15 AM   #10 (permalink)
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Dhom I don't smoke pot, but thanks.

and Sir I also think of it as being "weak" its my biggest reservation. I do not really like the idea of taking a pill to fix something either, but the problem is, it works Oh so well.
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Old 02-13-2012, 08:22 AM   #11 (permalink)
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Looking for an easy fix.

I was all about amphetamines when i was younger, because they made me 110% of who i was, or i felt like that at the time. Looking back over old photographs, I can't believe how sick i looked.

My mother got put on adderall for awhile several months ago, and I tried taking a few mg before work, or when I felt like i could use a boost in concentration.

It felt like fucking poison.

I think there are probably people who could stand to benefit from amphetamines. But you adventure, i think took some, like the effects, convinced yourself that the way you felt would be a positive, and now are just looking for further reinforcement of your initial hypothesis.

I did that all the time.

"look at this report I churned out all spun up! It's amazing!"

That's great, i got great grades when i was on it. truth. But i didn't learn the discipline needed to be that good, content-producing god of whatever while i was on the speed, simply got my motivation chemically, like a rat pressing a lever.

One needs discipline-the other route is a way to using that lever for everything. I don't agree with cognition enhancing drugs, obviously.

Develop your own skills, don't rely on a medication to get your mind into shape-it will only weaken you. If you'd had problems all your life, despite years of tutors and motivational seminars, i might think you could benefit-but as is-you're just looking for an easy solution to hard work.
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Old 02-14-2012, 12:39 AM   #12 (permalink)
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Now would taking a medication effect my DNA?
I think they can affect how the DNA is replicated.. like lots of other things can do. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mutagen

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Old 02-14-2012, 06:07 AM   #13 (permalink)
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Thanks Ellis and Mesc.

Mesc Im not sure if that really answered my question, but regardless it was an interesting read. Rock out with your flavonoids out!
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Old 02-14-2012, 07:10 AM   #14 (permalink)
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So lately I have been thinking about taking Adderall or Ritalin. I am not sure if I have ADD, who really knows. I am quite dyslexic, I can't focus well... its several smaller things that have effected me my whole life. I was never diagnosed with ADD in grade school. I think in grade school they really save that for the kids with ADHD the hyper kids.........
Adventure, I'm sure there are people who will disagree with me on this, like they are against pills since it seems that usually there are people who are against any help from a mental health professional, believing the problems don't exist or that the professional is merely a scammer.....

To them I say, at least you have one thing in common with crazy Tom Cruise!


So to those people.... keep your replies rational and kind, since I've probably heard it all before, just like everyone else in the forum here has

(Read: I don't care and don't want to hear it. I'm not going to engage with you)



If you haven't been diagnosed, for what it's worth, then I don't feel you should be assigning labels to yourself really. They probably aren't helping you, rather just making you feel like you have one more thing weighing on you.

Just try your best right now to leave it at, you're experience dissatisfaction with your current set of circumstances and move from there. Giving a label to what you are feeling isn't going to solve anything.... especially if you aren't talking/seeing anyone for it.

So many times I hear people say the ADD/ADHD (which is actually just one diagnosis in the DSM IV these days), Depression, Anxiety stuff without having a grasp on what a diagnosis REALLY means... vs just saying 'I am experiencing these things'....

For one... You are NOT that thing... you're just experiencing it.

With you I feel there might be more of a real thing going on as I've heard you expression these feelings before and it's been for some time.

That doesn't mean you have ADD/ADHD though, but I will agree that maybe there is something going on for you.


Before you start popping pills into your body consider going to talk with a counselor/therapist first and see where that gets you.

A little awareness, externalized and talked about with a non-judgmental person might prove to help you a lot.

These folks will be able to help you identify, more concisely, what is normal and what is in the actual concern range, as well as helping you to know the feelings you don't like better so that when you see them coming you can engage with a coping strategy.

A cognitive therapist/counselor might be what you need because it's very results oriented and will help provide you with a few simple tools, ideally, that help you quell, engage or avoid the issues you are experiencing.


THEN....

If one of those people and yourself (because you have a say in your health journey) come to the conclusion that the best thing for you is to see a psychiatrist (A actually mental health doctor who can prescribe meds, WAY better than a GP will ever be able to do) then so be it.

I don't want to get into the pill talk at this moment as I feel that maybe you have other options to exhaust before you start taking pills, since that clearly doesn't sound like what you REALLY want, imo.

You'll have a better bearing on if you really DO need them, if you really DO have an imbalance etc.....

All that said....

If you don't want to go the mental-health professional or the pill way...

You can still opt to go the holistic/nautro-pathic way and experiment with different herbal and dietary concoctions.




Check into what your insurance provides AND also see if your work offers anything within it's self like an employee assistance program, that is what it's for.

Most insurances will allow you 6 sessions before you get paying yourself,
BUT generally 5-6 sessions is all it takes with a good cognately based counselor/therapist.

I myself went to one for 4 sessions and it was life changing for the issue I took to them, but also, I did a lot of work outside that time with mindfulness and awareness that was cultivated in those sessions through the tools he gave me as well as my own practice of connection with my life.


Good Luck Adventure and if you want to have a deeper, more private conversation about this you know where to find me.


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Old 02-14-2012, 07:45 AM   #15 (permalink)
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And as always thank you Sage. I have been seeing a counselor for some time now. an amazing women. When I first thought about it, and started looking, I thought there was no way I could be able to connect with someone and feel comfortable enough to discuss such personal matters. Well I did find someone and she is amazing. I have discussed the issue with her are several occasions. She is behind me if I feel like it would help. She wants me to talk to my GP, whom I also respect immensely. I have an appointment with him the end of this week. I have been doing tons and tons of research. My girlfriend is also a huge help and support. She surprisingly isn't completely against it.
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Old 02-14-2012, 07:56 AM   #16 (permalink)
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Don't do it adventure. As someone who goes to a large university, let me tell you...all the young'uns are on kiddie meth. I used to feel disadvantaged by that fact and even thought about getting a prescription for it so as to level the playing field.. It would be super easy as I was diagnosed with ADD as a kid and have been prescribed all sorts of that bullshit. I stopped taking anything like that a long time ago so as to preserve my own mental health.

At least see it for what it is. Your post sounds exactly like someone who just discovered amphetamines. The exhilaration of being a "better" you. Tweaking feels good man, especially when your insurance is paying for it. Frankly, amphetamines can potentially help anyone be more productive for a time, but it's just a quick fix.

I don't want to try to psychoanalyze you, but in my case I never actually needed that crap. It was just a simple matter of not caring about mundane academic tasks, etc. It took me a while to find the drive to truly apply myself in that arena and I think that is the case for most people. Instead of relying on a pill, you need to get inside your own head and figure out why you have problems in certain areas and work on it. It's not the easy way, but it is the way that leads to long term success rather than short term gains(that are mostly only perceived by you).

Try it out if you want, but the reality is that if you are on a regular dose of adderall, you will develop a tolerance. You will take more and you will stop eating well and you will have an increase in anxiety. This usually ends with withdrawal symptoms because you emptied your prescription early and you'll be trying to score adderall from friends like any other drug. Non of these things are conducive to actual success and personal progress and generally lead to diminishing returns.

I feel like it would cheapen the success I've been experiencing in life lately if I had to do it with a pill. Don't get me wrong, I start everyday with a big ass cup of coffee and a cigarette, everyone has their vices and I'm not one to judge. However, I tend to stay away from the ones prescribed by psychiatrists and tend to think that most people should probably go that route too(especially in the case of habit forming amphetamines).
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Old 02-14-2012, 08:09 AM   #17 (permalink)
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Because there is a perfect and ideal balance of neurotransmitters in every brain, and every brain must function properly, because what is balanced and what is proper is extremely important. Come to see us and find out if your brain is proper.





Knowing to a decent a degree about how these disorders in question are diagnosed and medications are administered, having conversed with an aunt who has a PhD in the field, I can say with confidence that we don't actually know enough about the brain to truly determine what the right thing is. We use templates that describe a variety of symptoms and record a set of observed symptoms, add in the results of some physical tests on the subject, and plug that into the most recent and accepted mathematical model that calculates that information and spits out an answer.

The process in itself I suppose isn't horrible, from a perspective of 'we're doing what we can with what we think we know so far' but if you want to trust your fucking BRAIN to the observations of another individual who essentially plugs his or her perception of you + some lab results into a mathematical system that's constantly undergoing revisions, be my guest.



To me that would be a last resort. Like a LAST fucking resort. I'd have to be frothing at the mouth and cutting people up at random before I'd give up myself like that.


But hey it's too late for me, I'm already crazy like Tom Cruise (ie: I'm crazy because I'm supposed to be this way, and I like it that way)
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Old 02-14-2012, 10:10 AM   #18 (permalink)
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Because there is a perfect and ideal balance of neurotransmitters in every brain, and every brain must function properly, because what is balanced and what is proper is extremely important. Come to see us and find out if your brain is proper.





Knowing to a decent a degree about how these disorders in question are diagnosed and medications are administered, having conversed with an aunt who has a PhD in the field, I can say with confidence that we don't actually know enough about the brain to truly determine what the right thing is. We use templates that describe a variety of symptoms and record a set of observed symptoms, add in the results of some physical tests on the subject, and plug that into the most recent and accepted mathematical model that calculates that information and spits out an answer.

The process in itself I suppose isn't horrible, from a perspective of 'we're doing what we can with what we think we know so far' but if you want to trust your fucking BRAIN to the observations of another individual who essentially plugs his or her perception of you + some lab results into a mathematical system that's constantly undergoing revisions, be my guest.



To me that would be a last resort. Like a LAST fucking resort. I'd have to be frothing at the mouth and cutting people up at random before I'd give up myself like that.


But hey it's too late for me, I'm already crazy like Tom Cruise (ie: I'm crazy because I'm supposed to be this way, and I like it that way)
How come I can't add fifty more thanks on this post?

Sage... we gotta talk brother. WTF do ya mean you won't engage?
I throw it out there... so ... that's it... IT IS SO! -said like the Pharoh???

That's straight bullshit! I've been in, on, under, and around this "mental health profession" most of my apparently too long life. I put that title in quotes because I consider it the ultimate fucking oxymoron. Not judging the entirety of individuals involved, as there are many very caring and genuinely good heated souls invested in trying to help others in it, but it also contains some of the most misguided, abhorrent, condescending, idiotic, self serving bullshit ever witnessed under the guise of "care".

Just for a moment consider that this "profession" had/has a patterned history of misdiagnosis longer than my fucking leg. Our mental institutions are filled with people that suffer from emotional disorders that are written off as mentally retarded and prescribed a life time of Thorazine and chemical lobotomies, just to make them more easily manged by a smaller staff contingent? WTF is to be trusted by that sort of "professionalism "?!.

And you wanna just toss that big ol' stinkin' turd in the pool and walk away?
Bad form bro'. Bad form.

I'll match ya story for story of examples of folks that have learned the hard way not to trust the "professionals" or the fucked up conventional wisdom. BTW only the Psychiatrist with the MD is writin' scripts, not the psychologists that generally run the therapy gambit, and these days I have witnessed personally, five out of five of those fuckheads write prescriptions for mind fucking, liver rotting shit for people without ever even reading their fucking charts or conducting a base patient interview!!!

Adventure, you are safer sticking you pecker in a box with a hungry rat.

Just as a side bar to all of this ADD madness. Yeah I'm a Neanderfuckthal, but I attended Catholic schools where ADD never existed. As we sat in silent rows, repeating rote lessons in our stifling, un-air conditioned, bland fuck yellowed classrooms, being led by the ancient Sister Mary I Hate Fucking Children Agnes, ... if we felt ourselves mentally "wandering" we were very quickly brought back to task by the sharp crack on our back, or a swift rap on the knuckles. Primitive as it was, after the first couple of whacks, you somehow got your brain to focus on two things at once. The material at hand, and not gettin' whacked again. I'm not defending it, I'm just puttin' it out there to juxtapose to this bullshit that there are "professionals" that have figured all of this shit out... they haven't.

What they have is a mish mosh of manipulated data and flawed studies, fueled by fucked up ego's, drug company money, and a peer review/ blind study cacophony of horseshit that is more aptly labeled fraud than science.

Don't even get me started...
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Old 02-14-2012, 11:02 AM   #19 (permalink)
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I agree with almost everything you said Galt, but its really hard to swallow when it comes from someone so against any form of structure. You won't allow yourself to see the good in anything the that doesn't resemble the sub/anti culture. I do appreciate everything that you share with us. You obviously spend a lot of time and energy on all of your post.
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Old 02-14-2012, 03:11 PM   #20 (permalink)
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as i age, i find myself looking at the world more like galt, and wishing i could still look at the world like sage.

not a knock on either of you, respect all around, but having experienced many sorts of doctor/patient relationships, seeing what galt describes firsthand, and also having the guilt of abusing the fuck out of many, many psyches for drugs that i did not need, there's just too many flaws for me to say i'm comfortable getting onvolved in the mental health industry anymore.

there was a time, sure. they have benefited my.

but just last january, i was diagnosed as schizoaffective, with zero chance of living a normal life. never mind i described that i was taking vast amounts of mdpv, they wanted me committed long term.

i got better.



kind of drunk, after a long day of work-didn't make a really good point, i know.

be careful adventure. legalized amphetamines are truly a path of daggers.
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