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Old 05-19-2014, 09:27 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Random Higher Thoughts

Because sometimes, our mental ramblings don't really need a whole thread.


I was thinking: you'd have to take all the lies and pretense out of daily living if you really wanted to have quality human connection as a part of everyday life. However, if you took all those lies and pretenses away, life would be terrifying. Quandary.



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Old 05-19-2014, 09:32 PM   #2 (permalink)
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edit:

Sorry Rev I actually misread what you said.
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Old 05-19-2014, 09:47 PM   #3 (permalink)
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I dont think life wouldnt be terrifying, but I do think that the world as it exists now would be terrifying. simply because to see our world as it truly is right now beneath the surface is terrifying. but then we would slowly morph it into something truly amazing. we would have no other option, since we wouldnt be able to lie. we would be forced to live with honesty and integrity which would turn the entire world around.
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Old 05-19-2014, 09:48 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Quote:


I was thinking: you'd have to take all the lies and pretense out of daily living if you really wanted to have quality human connection as a part of everyday life. However, if you took all those lies and pretenses away, life would be terrifying. Quandary.



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I've had a lot of dissonance myself considering this. You know, working through trauma, learning to reinhabit your body.. It's disorienting mainly because it's really rare that people in developed societies see experiences as they reAlly are. Most of our social phrases are representative before they are genuine, thus highly crafted. Not only that, but uniqueness of character and language makes it all the more complex. Imagine how difficult it can be to inhabit a space genuinely as others bring their pretenses , projections and already formed beliefs.

You are right: painful is what it is. It's uncomfortable especially if we are not used to it. I think I'm starting to commit my own self to the more genuine side of experience, and to cope I first ask if the any dischord is because of my own stuff, the environment or other people's complexities. Usually if it's the latter two I attempt to share understanding that were all kinda fucked up.

/spiel
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Old 05-19-2014, 09:49 PM   #5 (permalink)
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I disagree too.

Because in certain situations you just have to be a certain way with certain people. It could be for their best interest.

I don't know if I make sense with you brainiacs.
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Old 05-19-2014, 09:58 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by reverie View Post
I've had a lot of dissonance myself considering this. You know, working through trauma, learning to reinhabit your body.. It's disorienting mainly because it's really rare that people in developed societies see experiences as they reAlly are. Most of our social phrases are representative before they are genuine, thus highly crafted. Not only that, but uniqueness of character and language makes it all the more complex. Imagine how difficult it can be to inhabit a space genuinely as others bring their pretenses , projections and already formed beliefs.

You are right: painful is what it is. It's uncomfortable especially if we are not used to it. I think I'm starting to commit my own self to the more genuine side of experience, and to cope I first ask if the any dischord is because of my own stuff, the environment or other people's complexities. Usually if it's the latter two I attempt to share understanding that were all kinda fucked up.

/spiel
Yep.

I know what you mean, very much.
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Old 05-19-2014, 10:10 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by turmaline View Post
I disagree too.

Because in certain situations you just have to be a certain way with certain people. It could be for their best interest.

I don't know if I make sense with you brainiacs.
But why do you have to be a certain way with certain people?

I understand you completely. But why do you think that is?
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Old 05-19-2014, 10:12 PM   #8 (permalink)
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^ boundaries seem to be one of those big things that come up for me
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Old 05-19-2014, 10:16 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by reverie View Post
I've had a lot of dissonance myself considering this. You know, working through trauma, learning to reinhabit your body.. It's disorienting mainly because it's really rare that people in developed societies see experiences as they reAlly are. Most of our social phrases are representative before they are genuine, thus highly crafted. Not only that, but uniqueness of character and language makes it all the more complex. Imagine how difficult it can be to inhabit a space genuinely as others bring their pretenses , projections and already formed beliefs.
I disagree. Actually I agree in that its difficult, but as you continue along this path it becomes easier and easier. It doesnt have to be automatically painful though. It entirely depends on the attitude you take. There are tons of people who exist as genuine people in this world. You have to build up a tolerance to bullshit, you have to create a sturdy shield against this stuff. and you have to identify clearly what it is within those people that makes them engage pretense and bullshit. and when confronted with it, instead of stooping to that level, you have to (as you said perfectly

Quote:
first ask if the any dischord is because of my own stuff, the environment or other people's complexities. Usually if it's the latter two I attempt to share understanding that were all kinda fucked up.
The more you do this the more you ripple out understanding to the world and help correct the problems that cause people to flee to pretense and bullshit.

Also I dont mean to say that its all about focusing on others and their bullshit and pretense either. A huge part of this process is identifying YOUR OWN bullshit and your own issues. You can only reflect light if your mirror is clean. The more you clean your mirror, the less you run into #1 on your list and the more you can help by doing #2 and #3.
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Old 05-19-2014, 10:17 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by reverie View Post
^ boundaries seem to be one of those big things that come up for me
And expectations..



I find it so rare, and so refreshing to interact with someone who doesn't have expectations. Someone who doesn't have a guard.

And I find it so refreshing myself when I'm able to be that person too - because I know that I'm not always able to let it down.
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Old 05-19-2014, 10:20 PM   #11 (permalink)
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^ boundaries seem to be one of those big things that come up for me
Interesting. Boundaries in what sense?
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Old 05-19-2014, 10:20 PM   #12 (permalink)
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I disagree. Actually I agree in that its difficult, but as you continue along this path it becomes easier and easier. It doesnt have to be automatically painful though. It entirely depends on the attitude you take. There are tons of people who exist as genuine people in this world. You have to build up a tolerance to bullshit, you have to create a sturdy shield against this stuff. and you have to identify clearly what it is within those people that makes them engage pretense and bullshit. and when confronted with it, instead of stooping to that level, you have to (as you said perfectly



The more you do this the more you ripple out understanding to the world and help correct the problems that cause people to flee to pretense and bullshit.
I don't think it has to be, however I know from experience that it can be. Kinda really about sensitivity levels, personal histories and levels of involvement. We're all so different, man. It certainly does take conditioning, and we're all at different places in our conditioning/ tolerances.
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Old 05-19-2014, 10:22 PM   #13 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Sir-Ex View Post
And expectations..



I find it so rare, and so refreshing to interact with someone who doesn't have expectations. Someone who doesn't have a guard.

And I find it so refreshing myself when I'm able to be that person too - because I know that I'm not always able to let it down.
Thats a good point. I think boundaries and expectations share alot in common. If an individual has a boundary, they expect others to respect it. On the other hand an expectation is like a boundary of whats acceptable to that person. If you go outside the boundary you have not met the expectation. I think they exist together in a synergistic state in our current world.
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Old 05-19-2014, 10:25 PM   #14 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Sir-Ex View Post
And expectations..



I find it so rare, and so refreshing to interact with someone who doesn't have expectations. Someone who doesn't have a guard.

And I find it so refreshing myself when I'm able to be that person too - because I know that I'm not always able to let it down.
Ohhh I hear you %100 Sir. Those moments are so special.
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Interesting. Boundaries in what sense?
You know, like not having someone infringe on your trip? Allowing yourself to say no to the expectations of others with tact, not having someone dive in for a kiss.. Lol etc
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Old 05-19-2014, 10:27 PM   #15 (permalink)
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I think the more genuine a person is the less boundaries they have and the less expectations they have for themselves and others. What do you guys think?

But also I dont mean to say that a genuine person has NO boundaries. Boundaries are necessary on some level but its how you balance the whole thing that counts the most, imo. Its the attitude you take in regards to your personal boundaries and the boundaries of others that makes one genuine or not genuine.
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Old 05-19-2014, 10:28 PM   #16 (permalink)
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Yip!
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Old 05-19-2014, 10:29 PM   #17 (permalink)
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I think a more genuine person is more open about what boundaries and expectations they do have.

It's perfectly natural to have expectations of how we treat each other.
Someone who is genuine is up front and open about it, isn't ashamed about it, and is open and understanding to others' expectations - so long as they don't override or dominate their own.
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Old 05-19-2014, 10:31 PM   #18 (permalink)
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Yea ex, thats more what I was getting at. Well said. I dont mean to say that a genuine person has no expectations or boundaries. But its almost like the difference between a christian or muslim who would murder someone for not believing in their god and a christian or muslim who would genuinely accept and not give a hoot if another person believed in their god. Its about the attitude you take in regards to those things that counts.
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Old 05-19-2014, 10:44 PM   #19 (permalink)
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Yeah I must have just not read the second paragraph in your post for some reason?

I only read the 1st part and replied to it.. I wonder why I missed that second part because you basically said the same thing.
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Old 05-20-2014, 04:27 AM   #20 (permalink)
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But why do you have to be a certain way with certain people?

I understand you completely. But why do you think that is?
For example. My kids they love their dad. I hate his guts wish he would die a slow and painful death. Yet for the sake of my kids I have to speak nicely about him.

Because they have to learn that he is a piece of bottom scum on their own.

There's lots of reasons..

Say a guys leg is cut off and you don't want him to panic.. So you say.. Hey it's gonna be alright..because that was his favorited leg and he was a star athlete and you wanna keep the mood light before the medics get there...

You get what I'm saying?

Is this what Rev meant?
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