Ego Tripping

I decided to check John 3:16 (for no apparent reason, SweetSativa ) and found this interesting:

Now I know most Christians refer to being 'born again' as finding Jesus in your life, but Nico specifically mentioned being inside the mother's womb again.

Now I understand 3:16 better. We are constantly reincarnated until we learn to truly beleive in Christ enough to be pure enough to enter. Simply accepting Christ isn't access, but living as he did, a 'wayshower' of the perfect way of life. No religion required.

"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

Crazy.

Ego Tripping

Doing a bit more research, I find something else kinda cool...

Life for life, eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot, burn for burn, wound for wound, bruise for bruise. (Exod. 21:24-25)

Is this universal karma? In a mathematical sense, could each act have an equal reaction simply to 'balance the system'? This would have profound implications. That means for every act you do, good or evil, has an equal reaction, which causes a chain reaction in every direction (on a social scale). For example, my friend's girlfriend was just killed by a drunk driver.

Not sure the circumstances on the guy who hit her, it's crazy to think what events could have caused him to drink 1 too many, step into the car and meet with my friend's gf on some dark empty road. And the effects her death had, spreading all the way to me who never even met her. And this happens everyday of our lives.

Reincarnation perhaps, is until we 'balance our equation' and bring our souls back in balance by finally treating each other like we would want to be treated ourselves. We obviously have had more negative events occur in our lives or else we wouldn't need to be here, right? Even from our first Birth, we started "sinning" and unbalancing the equation of our inner selves. The first souls on earth were thrown back in because they were not pure enough to enter again. New soul or old soul, we're still not in balance...yet.

Seems so simple yet we completely failed so far.

Could all these prophecies be pointing to a global 'balance' coming? Where the system becomes aware of itself? Only communication will bring this about, I think, since it was mis-communication that put us here in the first place. Does this mean war is required? Not sure...maybe the equation is finally becoming unbalanced to the point where it collapses on itself...the only fix is a new start.

Makes you think.

El Coyote

So what you're pretty much telling all of us is...

"You will be re-incarnated and not go to heaven" ?

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<erika> i always think about ww when i sleep

Ego Tripping

Until we balance ourselves again, this done by accepting jesus/living a good life/respecting fellow man blah blah blah. Our lower vibrational states probably are too low to enter "heaven" (afterlife)...sort of like a really high pitched frequency going through a sub...the waves must match for a quality sound to be produced. Shitty example but I hope you get the idea. The more pure you are, the easier it is to get in.

And I'm not saying it...I'm just drawing my own conclusions from the scripture.

El Coyote

So how does all of this apply if Jesus/heaven doesn't exist?...

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"Straight up, for niggaz who don't understand
Obviously this wasn't made for you, so fuck you"- Bigg Jus

<erika> i always think about ww when i sleep

AK

Jesus also preached:

Matthew 5:38-42 - You have heard that it was said, "An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth." 39 But I say unto you, do not resist him who is evil; but whoever slaps you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also. 40 And if anyone wants to sue you, and take your shirt, let him have your coat also. 41And whoever shall force you to go one mile, go with him two. 42 Give to him who asks of you, and do not turn away from him who wants to borrow from you.

AK

43 "You have heard that it was said, 'Love your neighbor[2] and hate your enemy.' 44 But I tell you: Love your enemies[3] and pray for those who persecute you, 45 that you may be sons of your Father in heaven. He causes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous. 46 If you love those who love you, what reward will you get? Are not even the tax collectors doing that? 47 And if you greet only your brothers, what are you doing more than others? Do not even pagans do that? 48Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect.

Ego Tripping

See, people read that now and are appalled and say it can't ever happen...to never seek revenge when someone does harm?

But what if everyone did the same thing? Maybe one day?

Ego Tripping

I don't understand what you mean. It's the epitome of existance, not non-existance. Just because your 'reality' is all in your head and technically an illusion, doesn't mean it isn't here. Theres's something to be said for the acceptance of the unknown and embracing it, rather than using it as a canvas to paint fear.

I enjoy titties.

funky_unkle

Ego,
the first passage you quoted reads to me as if Jesus said Nicodemus was wrong in seeing it as a physical rebirth.
Personally I can't find much support for reincarnation in the Bible, rather the opposite; a lot of passages talk about how we will die one day, + all it says about judgement, ruling out "many lives, many chances."

It strikes me as not being any less miraculous though, being born again, a new creation etc etc.
How do you distinguish between "accepting" and "believing" in Jesus btw?

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The Christian answered, "The power is all on my side. I can love you while you torture me to death."

TxToker

"accepting" Jesus would be to accept that he is your savior and died to wash away your sins...believing in Jesus would be to just believe he was a real person but nothing special, much like the jews...

Ego Tripping

Jhn 3:4 Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?


Jhn 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily (in truth, truthful), I say unto thee

I'm not disagreeing, but how do you deduct that when it clearly addresses this in the open?

Mull D

Maybe that's not quite the intent of it?

Like how when Jesus said "I am the son of God" he was saying that each of us are the son of God, not that his mom was a virgin

Ego Tripping

I'm just trying to find alternate meanings though, but it seems pretty cut + dry. What other intent could it have?

The Rev

I remember during my tenure with the Church of Scientology (this was a LONG time ago), one of their books mentioned a meeting of bishops around 300 AD where they agreed, for the good of the Church, to remove references to reincarnation from the Bible. Now, this could all be Scientology propaganda, and probably is, but I thought it was worth mentioning. With reincarnation being a central theme to most of the world's religions, and with the human tendency to shape religion to suit one's needs, I could see such a thing as quite plausible.



The Rev

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Ego Tripping

I've heard of that as well.

Check this link out if you got time:

http://www.near-death.com/experiences/origen03.html

DrugsBunny

It would be nice but I think if we do wrong we gotta go to hell... if only it were real.

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Snakeman

A great topic Ego.
A very good interpretation. In hinduism we believe that reincarnation is very real. Although heaven and hell aren't really represented as places, they are more like consequences. As a result of ones karma (cause) there were will be a consequence (effect). Whether negative or positive, one cannot escape his karma, it must be worked out over lifetimes. The only escape from this cycle of rebirth is spiritual progression. By spiritually advancing ourselves, we eventually escape the reincarnative cycle and become merged with the Krishna Consciousness (Christ consciousness). In hinduism we believe the way to achieve that ultimate goal is through yoga.




Again, universal karma is very real. For EVERY action there is a REACTION. This applies not just to just to spirituality and belief. The goal of reincarnation is to eventually become "Self-Realized" and be able to escape the karmic cycle. To do this we have to experience a result for the effect, perhaps in this lifetime or maybe even the next. For example, for any pain that I cause anyone, I will experience the karmic result in the future. In whatever form that pain comes around, I WILL experience it inescapably.

If you are further interested in the topic, I HIGHLY suggest you look into the book "Autobiography of a Yogi" by Paramahansa Yogananda". It is an autobiographical account of a great man's life, and talks about many things that I am sure would interest you. It has many references to the bible, the bhagavad gita, and to other spiritual texts. If you read it carefully and really take some time to ponder over the profoundities expressed in just a few words, it will answer ALL of your questions. I guarantee it.




One last thing to think about. In relation to the above quote. It really is crazy to think about the sequence of events that lead to any given event. The karmic system is so profound and yet so scientific and simple if you think about it. I wonder....who could create/design something so unimagineably complex and yet so simple. A veritable law of the universe as you might put it. I can think of only one creator.

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The sun is the same in a relative way but you're older,
Shorter of breath, and one day closer to death.

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Ego Tripping

Snakeman, that was a great post, thank you.

I seriously make it a point in my day, everyday, to try and escape this cycle further. I don't react in spite of people's actions against me, I fully admit and apologize when I am wrong, I try and make someone's day a bit easier, etc.. I pretty much aim to live my life 'through the eyes of God.' But I'm not doing this out of fear or to reap eternal life, I simply just want to do this. I am content when I know I've helped someone else. Not to say I don't ever go against this ideaology, but I'm not perfect unfortunately. But for what it's worth, I realize these natural faults that I have and I ask for forgiveness everytime.

I have studied what you speak of, and it's in perfect agreement with my beliefs. I am on a journey, and I tend to take ideas from all beliefs from around the world. I think the big picture is a jigsaw, and each Belief only has a part of the picture of the front of the box.

I'm definately going to check out that book.

Snakeman

A great outlook ^^^. Pretty similar to how I look at things. I am a born and raised hindu, but realize that All religions are really based on the same essential concepts. I think its just misinterpretation over the years that has created contradictions amongst them. In "Autobiography of Yogi" whenever Yogananda makes a spiritual point, he usually references the bible as well as other spiritual texts and shows the correlation. What makes this book amazing too, is that then he gives a scientific explanation in addition. Its as though you are taking the fundamentals of all religions, applying science, and then for reference using the most ancient, well-known texts. Whilst reading, remember that it is a 100% true story, and read it with an open mind. Personally, it has really changed my life.

It's funny you should say this, because Yogananda started an organization called "The Self Realization Fellowship". A great non-profit organization dedicated to everyone's spiritual advancement and realization of true self through meditation and yoga. Rather than give you all the details, I will again reccomend reading through the book first and then taking it from there. If you are interested in learning more also, the SRF center is pretty close by to us (in Encinitas, right on the ocean) and is worth checking out.

Again, great topic/discussion.

__________________
The sun is the same in a relative way but you're older,
Shorter of breath, and one day closer to death.

Pink Floyd- Time