kitch

veda please check your pms

__________________

Mull D

Please veda, it really is getting out of hand and you've been taking it out on us lately!

Tokey

Umm..... Whoa

Ego Tripping

Think of Ego as the Foam on the top of the Sea. The 'self' is the ocean beneath it. The ego is still a part of the 'self' at all times and only exists because of it...but the 'self' has endless depth. Remove the foam from surface and the sea still exists.

__________________

Ego Tripping

Does that invalidate the experience?

If you think of consciousness as the result of the Brain's chemistry, yes.

If you think of the Brain chemistry as a result of the consciousness, no.

I prefer to view the Brain as a filter of information. Obviously more exists than we can (as humans) detect without machinery. The Brain is more like a TV, taking waves of information and forming them into a visual picture (reality).

__________________

SweetSativa

I still like the 'caught up in music' one. Nothing more closely resembles God to me. From this place, energy can be released, can be worked with and manipulated, etc... such a magickal place. It has always been my savior... some may cry or scream or punch a wall... I have always turned on loud music and sang... and sang, and sang... and I have no doubt that it cleansed my soul and kept many others around me alive. Being completely caught up in music, is being one with the universe. Ahhhhh

__________________
"Why is it that when people talk to God, we call it praying but when God talks to people, we call it crazy?"- Touched by an Angel
http://www.youtube.com/user/immelody.../0/DDRj93dQ0O0

Mull D

I like that one too

C_ka

VV nice.

and that again is me.


so what?

Be.

Om.

All.

Am

I.

still me,................. ............


oh well back to LSD.

__________________
"yes i smoke shit straight off the roach clip.."
- Cypress Hill

"Years ago I recognized my kinship with all living things, and I made up my mind that I was not one bit better than the meanest on the earth. I said then and I say now, that while there is a lower class, I am in it; while there is a criminal element, I am of it; while there is a soul in prison, I am not free."
— Eugene V. Debs

Canuck Wisdom

Since when have you had my eyes? or my brain... even on a physical level, your brain is designed differently then mine.

Whos to say that when I see red, I dont see what you would consider grey, if you were to have 'my eyes', as it were? Whos to say that the letters of this word dont look completly different to you then they do to me, but yet, because you were educated on the meaning of these symbols you can read them as well as I. These are some more physical examples,

I thought ego tripping said it well with his story about his friends girlfriend dying, there is a filter on everything, no one experiences the same thing.

Thats just how I understand it right now.... but you just seem to be ignoring the obvious in my opinion.

However, I guess you could say that we all experience the same thing in that we dont experience the same thing experiencing the same thing.

__________________
-Knowitall A&P type-

kiWikkid

Thanks for answering your question for me.
I'm still with user on this. How can we humans interact if we are all seeing different things. We see the same things, but it is our reactions that are different. Sure, there are little nuances like color blindness or dyslexia, but they are merely brain function abnormalities, not a sign of a soul or spirit.

__________________
__________________

THE BLUNCH BLACK OF BLOTRE BLAME

Ego Tripping

No, you misunderstand what I mean. You only read the part that validated your question.

If you think of the Brain as a form of an encoder/decoder, a recieving device for the Consciousness, then that does not rule out the Spirituality side. The Spirit is what is behind everything you're talking about. For example, the accident of Cage back the 1800's. Cage was a polite man, everybody loved him. After the accident on the Railroad, where a metal pole went through the front lobe of his brain (but he survived), he turned into what we would call "an asshole." He was rude, abrasive, a woman-izer, etc.. The part of the Brain that deals with rationality was lost and Cage become a 'differnet person.' Or did he? The part of the Brain that failed distorted the picture Cage created in his mind. Just like if a TV had a tube blow out on it which creates a distorted image on the screen. The Brain carries all the functions of sensory input and output, as a Radio recieves, decodes, re-encodes and transmits. But the picture being created, the random mix of chemicals and nuerons that come coherently together to create 'self' or 'consciousness', is thus far unexplained and I think, seated outside the Brain.

Once again, while the Brain chemistry is different, it still does not invalidate the experience.

__________________

kiWikkid

My bad, there should have been a gap between my one line reply to you, and the rest of my reply which was directed more to Canuck and his references to perception. Honestly, I sit right on the fence on topics like this (which comes first, brain chemistry or consciousness), when you describe your perspective so well, I feel my toes touching your side, but I still cant make the leap. One question though do you see consciousness and spirit/soul as being the same thing.

__________________
__________________

THE BLUNCH BLACK OF BLOTRE BLAME

Ego Tripping

Absolutely. I simply subscribe to the idea of ignorance and how we all are swimming in it whether we like it or not. We know so little about it and when I read Biblical scriptures and ancient texts that tell me the same thing I read in my Quantum Physics books, I realized we're just going through the cycle again...we think we're learning new information when we're just remembering what we forgot.

I know how you feel and it took me a while to make the leap. It's hard, being brought up in a Society so divided on religion and science, to let go of my cold-blooded logic and atheist-like roots. But I think Science is simply studying 'God's methods' and solves the equation of life beautifully. I read Science for the 'how' and hold my Faith close for the 'why.' More often than not, I can find the 'how' through the 'why' instead of the other way around.

__________________

Mull D

Thanks for the reaffirmation and your word power kiwikid.

I have been seriously considering that the only knowledge we get about the world from these discussions is knowledege about the different ways each of us think. C_ka said something awesome to me when he said that he knows we are all right. At the time it seemed like at least one of us was wrong, but I think he knows whats up. We are all right, we all are interpreting the same reality. The differences seem to come mostly in arguing in what we ought to call it!

Pitfall

well bloody said! it's just so true. i haven't had one bad trip yet. the skeptics are like how? how? well, it's because i despise having an ego alot of the time. the ego tells me what to say and what to think before i've even had a THINK. i also think the brain is overrated. we must use our HEARTS to THINK for once. so, my first acid trip, my first shroom trip, i felt awkward when losing the ego. but now i try and make it a daily practice. you cant live without an ego, but you can have your HIGHER SELF taking the control away from it. losing the ego is such a dynamic and beautiful thing. much more potential comes from the egoless, so many new ideas! the "intelligent" people of this world usually dont want to run for president etc. and it's a crying shame. i think that the true person is the soul, not the body, not the brain, not even the mind!




ps: us druggies are terrorists for doing what we do! don't forget to scream out things like "i want your fucking badge number!" this has nothing to do with the topic, but that's the whole point.

__________________
Of contradictions infinite the slave. --Wordsworth.

SweetSativa

About psycedelics: Carlos Castaneda quotes Don Juan as calling some substances 'allies' to some people. If you were meant to learn in this way, then this substance is your ally. I know for sure that acid and I don't mix. There could be many speculations about why (and the timing in my life when I used it)... It is important to me to become free while remaining grounded because this is something that I want for life (and beyond), not just for a while. I definately see that it is the right thing for some... different paths for different people.

__________________
"Why is it that when people talk to God, we call it praying but when God talks to people, we call it crazy?"- Touched by an Angel
http://www.youtube.com/user/immelody.../0/DDRj93dQ0O0

supermarket :)

:P

SweetSativa

Supermarket... where does that last quote come from?^

__________________
"Why is it that when people talk to God, we call it praying but when God talks to people, we call it crazy?"- Touched by an Angel
http://www.youtube.com/user/immelody.../0/DDRj93dQ0O0

Sans & a half

I wanted to say that I respect bodha's statement's. Basically you can't seek truth you can only find truth. Very true. But really if all you care about is the nothing. Everything as well. But in fact you care about nothing. Which is the point of it. Shouldn't you not exist? Exactly. You both exist and don't exist at the same time. But these people. They believe this yet they get off their asses and they go work and get food. Why? Because we need food? No we don't. Then why do they eat and drink if there is no need. Because there is a need. Duality Buddhism while one of the most eloquent and beautiful of all the religions is still just that, a religion. It's a mind virus. Something that spreads itself. It's desirable to be continuous. Not because we "Know" we are. But because it's natural. For the same reason the monks eat their rice. It is desirable to survive. Therefore it is instinctually desirable to survive forever. To "trancend" time. That is why religion makes the "ultimate" sense. Because it's ultimate survival. At least in a sense that we can partially understand. Food makes sense nobody questions eating. Because it's survival. No one questions having children because it's species survival. Everything we do is based on survival. Sickening.

Also I do believe in a higher power. But do I because there is? Or because I have to believe there is because it's instinctual. Because my simple pathetic mind in all it's glory cannot understand why I'm here. Ego or no ego I'm still going to eat food and drink water and breath air and exist on the third rock from a star we call earth.

I welcome responses.

P.S. Hope this makes sense since I'm drunk and I kinda confused myself ha ha.

__________________
Life's a trip, make it a vacation. -Sans-

Ego Tripping

We are never supposed to know why we're here (as individual human beings) because it would negate the very idea of being here to begin with. If I'm your Math teacher and I tell you about a test at the end of the week, but I also at the time of announcement, give you all the answers, the test is worthless and would teach you nothing. We are required to forget so we can properly learn the lessons we've set ourselves up for.

The key is to embrace the unknown, revel in the mystery and take solace and comfort in the fact that you will ONE DAY recieve these answers. All you do in the meantime is try and leave the Earth and it's relative inhabitants better than when you arrived. Thus, is the meaning of life.

__________________