Higher states of consciousness?

Bodhisattva · 12-25-2004, 07:10 PM

From: "Mysticism: Contemplative and Chemical" by Roger Walsh

"Mystical experiences are usually conceived of as coinciding with altered states of consciousness. As a result, a consideration of mystical states should begin with a discussion of consciousness itself. Yet the nature of consciousness is one of the most fundamental and difficult of all philosophical questions.

The answers to this question have ranged across an enormous spectrum throughout cultures and eras. At one extreme, they include the idea that consciousness is a mere by-product of matter; this is the philosophy of materialism. At the other extreme is the idea that consciousness is the fundamental substrate of reality; this is the philosophy of absolute idealism as proposed, for example, by Yogachara Buddhism. For Nietzsche, consciousness was a suffering produced by the disease of life, while for the Vedantic religion of India, it is being and bliss. (...)

Yet whatever consciousness is, the desire to alter it is clearly common and widespread. (...) If this is so, it raises the obvious question of the nature of an "optimal" state of consciousness. (...)

In the West it is commonly assumed that our usual waking state is optimal. Yet many religious and contemplative traditions make claims about consciousness that run counter to Western assumptions, among them that:

1) Our usual state of consciousness is severely suboptimal and deficient;

2) Multiple states of consciousness-including true "higher states"-exist;

3) These states can be attained through training;

4) Verbal communication about them may be necessarily limited.

The teachings of mystical traditions inform us that our usual state of consciousness is not only suboptimal, but dreamlike and illusory. They assert that whether we know it or not, without mental training, we are prisoners of our own minds, unwittingly trapped by a continuous inner dialogue that creates an all-consuming distortion of perception. These traditions suggest that we live in a collective dream variously known as Maya, 'illusion,' or what psychologist Charles Tart calls 'consensus trance.'

Obviously, if these various traditions regard our usual state as suboptimal, they must regard some other state(s) as superior. Numerous traditions converge on the idea that the unio mystica described by mystics and saints constitutes the supreme state of consciousness-and in fact is the highest achievement of human existence."

"This piece, originally published in issue 26 of Gnosis magazine, forms one chapter of a book called Zig Zag Zen whose aim is to convince its readers that taking hallucinogenic drugs is the speediest path to Buddhist Enlightenment. I'm beginning to really like this book because it puts into very concise words all the most common misconceptions about Buddhist philosophy. When you start off from the mistaken idea that some abnormal state of mind is the "optimal state of consciousness," the bone-headed notion that getting totally wasted is the way to find reality is a pretty easy conclusion to jump to. Of course anyone with an ounce of sense knows the idea that drugs can give you Enlightenment is pure horse turds. But we can leave the issue illicit drugs aside. In fact, I cut the drug references out of the passage to show that there is a much more profound point at hand. What Mr. Walsh has written here represents a view held by a great many of the people who turn up to lectures about Zen even if they have no interest at all in wrecking their bodies and brains with chemical poisons. It certainly represents the view I held the when I started looking into Zen. What I wanted most out of my Zazen experience was an altered or higher state of consciousness.

One of the most important points to make clear here is that there is a huge difference between meditation and Zazen. Meditation is aimed at altering your state of consciousness. It's like exchanging a pair of rose colored glasses for a pair of violet colored glasses. The aim of Zazen is to get you to take off your glasses and see reality as it is.

Consciousness is an illusion. Perception is an illusion. Reality is neither one of these. So altering your consciousness or your perception is a lousy method for seeing reality as it is. Altering consciousness by any method at all-including meditation-only deepens your illusions.

Both the idea that consciousness arises from matter and the idea that consciousness is the substrata of the Universe are wrong. Consciousness is merely a concept invented by human beings. There is no consciousness. People who come to Zen groups are usually inclined to believe that the practice of Zazen will help them connect with something they conceive of as "pure consciousness." They believe what Mr. Walsh has puts forth here that our normal state of consciousness is faulty and that things would be fine if only they could achieve some higher state. They look upon Zazen as a kind of training for that. I know this because that was exactly how I approached the matter for many years. I was horribly disappointed.

In Zen you'll often hear phrases like, "the material world is an illusion." There's a chapter in Shobogenzo called "Preaching a Dream Within a Dream" which characterizes our waking consciousness as a kind of dream-like state. It's easy to extrapolate these ideas in just the way Mr. Walsh has, and come to believe that Buddhism reveres a "higher" state of consciousness apart from the one we have right now. This mistake is not something only Westerners do, or even something very new. Such misinterpretations predate even Gautama Buddha himself and, in fact, form the basis of a great number of philosophies-some of them quite ancient- which claim to be Buddhism. But that way of thinking is not Buddhism.

Walsh says that, "verbal communication about them (higher states) may be necessarily limited." This sounds something like what Buddhists assert when they say talking about Enlightenment is futile. People tend to think this means Enlightenment is some uncommon state of consciousness which cannot be communicated unlike our normal states of consciousness which can. But can words really describe our ordinary states of consciousness? Try to describe the act of taking a pee on a cold Monday morning with perfect clarity. The point is not that Enlightenment is some extraordinary state, unique in that it alone cannot be explained. It's that verbal communication itself is always limited under any circumstances.

To pursue Zazen you need to be completely honest with yourself about your real life right here and right now. You can't let yourself be fooled by others. You can't let yourself be fooled by yourself. There's a story about a Chinese Zen Master who would walk around saying to himself, "Don't get fooled by others," then answering himself saying, "No I won't."

The reason I've never pursued other forms of meditation very deeply is that whenever I do try them I can see they're a total waste of effort within the first few minutes. The other day I participated in a meditation exercise presided over by a guy who certainly thought he was a Buddhist. But what he led us through wasn't even close to Buddhism. First he had us all jump up and down and make noise. This was supposed to dissipate our nervous energy or some such thing. It just made me feel stupid and a little hyperactive.

Next he had us all sit down, close our eyes, and begin imagining that various par of our bodies were getting warm. Apparently if you had trouble making any part of your body feel warm, this indicated some sort of "block" within your personality. I don't know much about that. But by the end of the exercise I felt warm all over. I've always had a good imagination.

When you meditate (as opposed to when you do Zazen) you are supposed to focus your concentration on something, some word, some image, some idea. The imagination is a fantastically powerful thing. I have no trouble believing that people who constantly exercise their powers of imagination through meditation can indeed achieve amazing altered states of consciousness. But so what? All you've done is learned to fool yourself very efficiently.

You can train yourself to be fooled into thinking that your most vivid imaginings are actually "higher states of consciousness." Most people who are come to such practices already inclined towards a rather idealistic, "spiritual" outlook can learn these techniques pretty quickly. That's why a lot of folks find other forms of meditation so much more attractive than Zazen. They're a whole Hell of a lot easier!

Every person who's ever reached one of those higher states has had to come back down from it to tell us about it. Most people never even consider this. But it is the single most important point to consider. Why is it that you always have to come back down?

Bodhisattva · 12-25-2004, 07:13 PM

There are no higher states of consciousness. All states of consciousness are equally illusory. Oh there are plenty of "Masters" out there who will confirm your so-called "transcendental states" as the Real Deal. When you've learned to fool yourself efficiently, fooling others is a piece of cake. If you want to find one of those Masters instead of listening to me, be my guest. I'll always think of you as a total wuss-head. But once you reach your higher state of consciousness that shouldn't bother you.

In Zazen you are not given any object to concentrate on. You're cut loose, completely on your own. This kind of Zazen is what Dogen called "Shikantaza," which means "just sitting." If you've ever tried to play music or to act on stage, you know that, no matter how much you rehearse, if you pause too long to think about what you're doing you'll mess it up. I started doing yoga every morning about two years ago. and I've discovered that if I allow myself to think about something when I'm doing my Sun Salutations, I'll get all the movements wrong. If you do Shikantaza properly, that kind of feedback is even more immediate. As soon as you start to think, your body starts to drift right along with your mind. your shoulders come up. Your back bends. Your fingers or toes wiggle seemingly involuntarily. Put your body back in order and your mind settles.

Facing reality as it is right here and right now is much, much more difficult than establishing any kind of higher consciousness. It's a long, hard road. Zen teachers don't try to lead you to higher states. A Zen teacher's only job is to encourage you to keep on going down that road."

-Brad Warner

Ego Tripping · 12-25-2004, 07:30 PM

I more or less agree. While I think Mediation can deeply help keep your "normal" mental state a bit more clear, it is not required. If we were supposed to exist outside of this state of consciousness, if this "reality" was really just an illusion, then we wouldn't be born this way. Whatever placed us here obviously wanted it this exact way. You can go through your whole life and never experience another altered state of consciousness, it doesn't matter. What matters is what you do WITH that state of Consciousness that you are given! Our actions are what matter because our actions affect everyone around us. My meditation doesn't affect my neighbor.

I agree, the goal isn't to transcend this state of consciousness or run away from it....the goal is to be able to look at it in the face and say "I am your master."

Bodhisattva · 12-25-2004, 07:57 PM

If you effect your neighbor your meditation effects your neighbor.

Here is the whole koan about the Zen master who called out to himself and made a slave-master relationship in his head, i think I've posted it before.

"CASE 12. ZUIGAN CALLS HIMSELF "MASTER"

Every day Zuigan used to call out to himself, "Master!" and then he answered himself, "Yes, Sir!" And he added, "Awake, Awake!" and then answered, "Yes, Sir! Yes, Sir!" "From now onwards, do not be deceived by others!" "No, Sir! I will not, Sir!"

Mumon's Comment:

The master, Zuigan, sells out and buys himself. He has a lot of puppets of gods and devils that he plays with. Why is this so? With one mask he asked, and with another he answered. With another mask he said, "Awake!" and another, "Don't be cheated by others!"
If you adhere to any one of these, you are totally mistaken. If, however, you imitate Zuigan, then all these are no other than the fox's disguises.

Some who search the Way of Zen do not realize true self,
For they recognize only the ego-soul.
This ego-soul is the seed of birth and death,
Foolish people take it for the true original self. "

It doesn't seem to me you understood his point, maybe if you hadn't replied so fast.

Zazen is simply sitting down and trying to stay wide awake.

Much Metta,
-bodhisattva

Ego Tripping · 12-25-2004, 09:12 PM

Meh, unfortunately it's just the way things work for him, everyone finds their own path. Everyone has their own schtick to finding their inner-self.

tugboat complex · 12-25-2004, 09:58 PM

that consciousness can be altered at all is a great lesson in itself.

snapshot · 12-25-2004, 11:16 PM

Yeah, I'm happy with that lesson for now. Doesn't mean this story won't catalyze it's prerogative. Good lesson.

Canuck Wisdom · 12-26-2004, 09:12 AM

Hmm, when I "meditate", I just try not to use my 'mind' at all. This ^ seems to make meditation out as imagination which is not what I would of described it as. I liked the read

12-25-2004, 07:10 PM	#1 (permalink)
Bodhisattva Professed Monster Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: The Spectator's Malevolent Neutrality Posts: 328 Thanks: 5 Thanked 18 Times in 12 Posts	Higher states of consciousness? From: "Mysticism: Contemplative and Chemical" by Roger Walsh "Mystical experiences are usually conceived of as coinciding with altered states of consciousness. As a result, a consideration of mystical states should begin with a discussion of consciousness itself. Yet the nature of consciousness is one of the most fundamental and difficult of all philosophical questions. The answers to this question have ranged across an enormous spectrum throughout cultures and eras. At one extreme, they include the idea that consciousness is a mere by-product of matter; this is the philosophy of materialism. At the other extreme is the idea that consciousness is the fundamental substrate of reality; this is the philosophy of absolute idealism as proposed, for example, by Yogachara Buddhism. For Nietzsche, consciousness was a suffering produced by the disease of life, while for the Vedantic religion of India, it is being and bliss. (...) Yet whatever consciousness is, the desire to alter it is clearly common and widespread. (...) If this is so, it raises the obvious question of the nature of an "optimal" state of consciousness. (...) In the West it is commonly assumed that our usual waking state is optimal. Yet many religious and contemplative traditions make claims about consciousness that run counter to Western assumptions, among them that: 1) Our usual state of consciousness is severely suboptimal and deficient; 2) Multiple states of consciousness-including true "higher states"-exist; 3) These states can be attained through training; 4) Verbal communication about them may be necessarily limited. The teachings of mystical traditions inform us that our usual state of consciousness is not only suboptimal, but dreamlike and illusory. They assert that whether we know it or not, without mental training, we are prisoners of our own minds, unwittingly trapped by a continuous inner dialogue that creates an all-consuming distortion of perception. These traditions suggest that we live in a collective dream variously known as Maya, 'illusion,' or what psychologist Charles Tart calls 'consensus trance.' Obviously, if these various traditions regard our usual state as suboptimal, they must regard some other state(s) as superior. Numerous traditions converge on the idea that the unio mystica described by mystics and saints constitutes the supreme state of consciousness-and in fact is the highest achievement of human existence." "This piece, originally published in issue 26 of Gnosis magazine, forms one chapter of a book called Zig Zag Zen whose aim is to convince its readers that taking hallucinogenic drugs is the speediest path to Buddhist Enlightenment. I'm beginning to really like this book because it puts into very concise words all the most common misconceptions about Buddhist philosophy. When you start off from the mistaken idea that some abnormal state of mind is the "optimal state of consciousness," the bone-headed notion that getting totally wasted is the way to find reality is a pretty easy conclusion to jump to. Of course anyone with an ounce of sense knows the idea that drugs can give you Enlightenment is pure horse turds. But we can leave the issue illicit drugs aside. In fact, I cut the drug references out of the passage to show that there is a much more profound point at hand. What Mr. Walsh has written here represents a view held by a great many of the people who turn up to lectures about Zen even if they have no interest at all in wrecking their bodies and brains with chemical poisons. It certainly represents the view I held the when I started looking into Zen. What I wanted most out of my Zazen experience was an altered or higher state of consciousness. One of the most important points to make clear here is that there is a huge difference between meditation and Zazen. Meditation is aimed at altering your state of consciousness. It's like exchanging a pair of rose colored glasses for a pair of violet colored glasses. The aim of Zazen is to get you to take off your glasses and see reality as it is. Consciousness is an illusion. Perception is an illusion. Reality is neither one of these. So altering your consciousness or your perception is a lousy method for seeing reality as it is. Altering consciousness by any method at all-including meditation-only deepens your illusions. Both the idea that consciousness arises from matter and the idea that consciousness is the substrata of the Universe are wrong. Consciousness is merely a concept invented by human beings. There is no consciousness. People who come to Zen groups are usually inclined to believe that the practice of Zazen will help them connect with something they conceive of as "pure consciousness." They believe what Mr. Walsh has puts forth here that our normal state of consciousness is faulty and that things would be fine if only they could achieve some higher state. They look upon Zazen as a kind of training for that. I know this because that was exactly how I approached the matter for many years. I was horribly disappointed. In Zen you'll often hear phrases like, "the material world is an illusion." There's a chapter in Shobogenzo called "Preaching a Dream Within a Dream" which characterizes our waking consciousness as a kind of dream-like state. It's easy to extrapolate these ideas in just the way Mr. Walsh has, and come to believe that Buddhism reveres a "higher" state of consciousness apart from the one we have right now. This mistake is not something only Westerners do, or even something very new. Such misinterpretations predate even Gautama Buddha himself and, in fact, form the basis of a great number of philosophies-some of them quite ancient- which claim to be Buddhism. But that way of thinking is not Buddhism. Walsh says that, "verbal communication about them (higher states) may be necessarily limited." This sounds something like what Buddhists assert when they say talking about Enlightenment is futile. People tend to think this means Enlightenment is some uncommon state of consciousness which cannot be communicated unlike our normal states of consciousness which can. But can words really describe our ordinary states of consciousness? Try to describe the act of taking a pee on a cold Monday morning with perfect clarity. The point is not that Enlightenment is some extraordinary state, unique in that it alone cannot be explained. It's that verbal communication itself is always limited under any circumstances. To pursue Zazen you need to be completely honest with yourself about your real life right here and right now. You can't let yourself be fooled by others. You can't let yourself be fooled by yourself. There's a story about a Chinese Zen Master who would walk around saying to himself, "Don't get fooled by others," then answering himself saying, "No I won't." The reason I've never pursued other forms of meditation very deeply is that whenever I do try them I can see they're a total waste of effort within the first few minutes. The other day I participated in a meditation exercise presided over by a guy who certainly thought he was a Buddhist. But what he led us through wasn't even close to Buddhism. First he had us all jump up and down and make noise. This was supposed to dissipate our nervous energy or some such thing. It just made me feel stupid and a little hyperactive. Next he had us all sit down, close our eyes, and begin imagining that various par of our bodies were getting warm. Apparently if you had trouble making any part of your body feel warm, this indicated some sort of "block" within your personality. I don't know much about that. But by the end of the exercise I felt warm all over. I've always had a good imagination. When you meditate (as opposed to when you do Zazen) you are supposed to focus your concentration on something, some word, some image, some idea. The imagination is a fantastically powerful thing. I have no trouble believing that people who constantly exercise their powers of imagination through meditation can indeed achieve amazing altered states of consciousness. But so what? All you've done is learned to fool yourself very efficiently. You can train yourself to be fooled into thinking that your most vivid imaginings are actually "higher states of consciousness." Most people who are come to such practices already inclined towards a rather idealistic, "spiritual" outlook can learn these techniques pretty quickly. That's why a lot of folks find other forms of meditation so much more attractive than Zazen. They're a whole Hell of a lot easier! Every person who's ever reached one of those higher states has had to come back down from it to tell us about it. Most people never even consider this. But it is the single most important point to consider. Why is it that you always have to come back down?

12-25-2004, 07:13 PM	#2 (permalink)
Bodhisattva Professed Monster Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: The Spectator's Malevolent Neutrality Posts: 328 Thanks: 5 Thanked 18 Times in 12 Posts	There are no higher states of consciousness. All states of consciousness are equally illusory. Oh there are plenty of "Masters" out there who will confirm your so-called "transcendental states" as the Real Deal. When you've learned to fool yourself efficiently, fooling others is a piece of cake. If you want to find one of those Masters instead of listening to me, be my guest. I'll always think of you as a total wuss-head. But once you reach your higher state of consciousness that shouldn't bother you. In Zazen you are not given any object to concentrate on. You're cut loose, completely on your own. This kind of Zazen is what Dogen called "Shikantaza," which means "just sitting." If you've ever tried to play music or to act on stage, you know that, no matter how much you rehearse, if you pause too long to think about what you're doing you'll mess it up. I started doing yoga every morning about two years ago. and I've discovered that if I allow myself to think about something when I'm doing my Sun Salutations, I'll get all the movements wrong. If you do Shikantaza properly, that kind of feedback is even more immediate. As soon as you start to think, your body starts to drift right along with your mind. your shoulders come up. Your back bends. Your fingers or toes wiggle seemingly involuntarily. Put your body back in order and your mind settles. Facing reality as it is right here and right now is much, much more difficult than establishing any kind of higher consciousness. It's a long, hard road. Zen teachers don't try to lead you to higher states. A Zen teacher's only job is to encourage you to keep on going down that road." -Brad Warner __________________

12-25-2004, 07:30 PM	#3 (permalink)
Ego Tripping Are you in? Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 13,468 Thanks: 229 Thanked 665 Times in 443 Posts	I more or less agree. While I think Mediation can deeply help keep your "normal" mental state a bit more clear, it is not required. If we were supposed to exist outside of this state of consciousness, if this "reality" was really just an illusion, then we wouldn't be born this way. Whatever placed us here obviously wanted it this exact way. You can go through your whole life and never experience another altered state of consciousness, it doesn't matter. What matters is what you do WITH that state of Consciousness that you are given! Our actions are what matter because our actions affect everyone around us. My meditation doesn't affect my neighbor. I agree, the goal isn't to transcend this state of consciousness or run away from it....the goal is to be able to look at it in the face and say "I am your master." __________________ God appears, and God is light, To those poor souls who dwell in night; But does a human form display To those who dwell in realms of day.

12-25-2004, 07:57 PM	#4 (permalink)
Bodhisattva Professed Monster Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: The Spectator's Malevolent Neutrality Posts: 328 Thanks: 5 Thanked 18 Times in 12 Posts	If you effect your neighbor your meditation effects your neighbor. Here is the whole koan about the Zen master who called out to himself and made a slave-master relationship in his head, i think I've posted it before. "CASE 12. ZUIGAN CALLS HIMSELF "MASTER" Every day Zuigan used to call out to himself, "Master!" and then he answered himself, "Yes, Sir!" And he added, "Awake, Awake!" and then answered, "Yes, Sir! Yes, Sir!" "From now onwards, do not be deceived by others!" "No, Sir! I will not, Sir!" Mumon's Comment: The master, Zuigan, sells out and buys himself. He has a lot of puppets of gods and devils that he plays with. Why is this so? With one mask he asked, and with another he answered. With another mask he said, "Awake!" and another, "Don't be cheated by others!" If you adhere to any one of these, you are totally mistaken. If, however, you imitate Zuigan, then all these are no other than the fox's disguises. Some who search the Way of Zen do not realize true self, For they recognize only the ego-soul. This ego-soul is the seed of birth and death, Foolish people take it for the true original self. " It doesn't seem to me you understood his point, maybe if you hadn't replied so fast. Zazen is simply sitting down and trying to stay wide awake. Much Metta, -bodhisattva __________________

12-25-2004, 09:12 PM	#5 (permalink)
Ego Tripping Are you in? Join Date: Jan 2004 Posts: 13,468 Thanks: 229 Thanked 665 Times in 443 Posts	Meh, unfortunately it's just the way things work for him, everyone finds their own path. Everyone has their own schtick to finding their inner-self. __________________ God appears, and God is light, To those poor souls who dwell in night; But does a human form display To those who dwell in realms of day.

12-25-2004, 09:58 PM	#6 (permalink)
tugboat complex Old School Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Pa Posts: 517 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	that consciousness can be altered at all is a great lesson in itself. __________________ "theres smoke in my iris, but i painted a sunny day on the insides of my eyelids" - aesop rock

12-25-2004, 11:16 PM	#7 (permalink)
snapshot no custom. customize Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: The unOriginal Rorschach. Posts: 19,302 Thanks: 15 Thanked 22 Times in 21 Posts	Yeah, I'm happy with that lesson for now. Doesn't mean this story won't catalyze it's prerogative. Good lesson. __________________ We are all atheists about most of the gods that society has ever believed in. Some of us just go one god further. -Richard Dawkins

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