SweetSativa

How important is it to you? Where do we draw the line? Do you feel that it is safe to practice any religion (or spiritual practice) of your choice?

http://www.religioustolerance.org/var_rel.htm

("Neopagan faiths are modern-day reconstructions of ancient Pagan religions from various countries and eras. They experience a high level of discrimination and persecution in North America. They were once rarely practiced in public for reasons of safety. This is slowly changing for the better.").... my great-grandmother felt so insecure that she would not even speak aloud (but rather whispered) the names of the herbs that she needed to heal herself. In my home town, a couple moved in and began the preparations to open a 'transcendental meditation center' (of no specific faith) which would have brought many wealthy people to our area and given to the dying town economically. HOWEVER, they were run out of town by the people... there was a petition to remove them with many things listed as hazards such as (and no, I'm not making this up... taste my anger? ) 'they meditate while driving' and 'they will mutilate cattle'. Now, you people who believe that I hate Christians... try seeing things through my eyes... I spent 18 years here and this is not abnormal for the area that I live in. I was meant to be here... I love the land and it is in need of some opening of eyes.

http://www.religioustolerance.org

__________________
"Why is it that when people talk to God, we call it praying but when God talks to people, we call it crazy?"- Touched by an Angel
http://www.youtube.com/user/immelody.../0/DDRj93dQ0O0

Mescalito

[QUOTE=SweetSativa]How important is it to you? Where do we draw the line? Do you feel that it is safe to practice any religion (or spiritual practice) of your choice?
Thats a difficult one. hmmm., its definately not safe to do just any form of practice.. as some practices will inevitably involve some sort of activity that may be unsafe and may lead to death. But is it safe to other people? I think it depends on that persons belief and expressions about respect to all life.

I think if the practices are communicated between individuals in a way of respect for both persons opinions, and through also trying to see each others view, then its ok. I guess that is the threshold for me... moving above this threshold means there is no respect and negative expressions may affect other peoples safety. So practices aside it all comes down to the individuals communication. Some people listen and try to understand,... some dont. If there is a point to prove to someone then it is that communication and language should be respected and understood before communication starts.

I think the kind of people you were reffering to are just so conditioned to the same habit of selectively listening and understanding only certin things which fit into their current pattern of belief. Having said that.. that could be said to define everyone. There is always someone who i tell about lucid dreaming who will just not believe it outright for some crazy conditioned reason.. like if i cant see it it isnt there... or if science hasnt proven it then in my mind it doesnt exist... or its not true or else i would have heard of it by now because its so good alot of people should be doing it!!!!!

So when referring to open mindedness it isnt always a good thing.. i guess it depends on what befenits are made by the process of opening your mind or becoming aware of these other activities/practices. I used to think of open mindedness as a whollly good thing.. but really i didnt think about it properly.

M

funky_unkle

I don't draw the line at people's beliefs, but their actions. But I don't like religiousness in any form. Religion is man's effort to meet God. Jesus is God's effort to meet us.

Beats me why anyone would want anything else, especially christians. They have total freedom under their noses, and then proceed to pick out commandments never given to them and make rules based on anything and everything. As if God can't see your heart through your clothes and politics and traditions. As if there is anything left to do when Jesus said "it is finished." As if my efforts would be any good to God. As if a ritual would please Him. As if GOD is so unable to guide me that I not only need to look after myself, but have others do it too. As if we need rules to live by instead of love.
I've been a slave to religion myself, and I'm not going back.

__________________
A communist officer told a Christian he was beating, "I am almighty, as you suppose your God to be. I can kill you."
The Christian answered, "The power is all on my side. I can love you while you torture me to death."

North_of_Sanity

People can practise whatever religions they want in private.

I'm sick of people holding protests demanding the government uphold their religious "rights."

For example, I heard a radio show where this Christian thinks people are "bigots" for wanting to give homosexuals the right to get married. She thinks they're discriminating against her because she believes gay marriage is a sin.

I'm not a homosexual, but....if two guys want to get married, what the fuck does it have to do with me? Nothing! Why should I care? Even if it is a "sin", how does other people's choices affect you? Seriously!

Same as marijuana, booze and other drugs. Most religions view drugs as a "sin" Well....good for you. Don't use drugs. What right do you have to discriminate against me for using drugs if I'm not a religious person

Religious people seem to think they own the society around them. It's quite scary.

Christians think they own America. Islamic extremists think they own the middleast. It's soooooo fucked up.

__________________
"His professional diagnosis: Narcissistic Personality Disorder. My unprofessional diagnosis: Nut-Job!" - Jim Rome

"I don't have a girlfriend. But I know a woman who would be upset if she heard me say that." - Mitch Hedberg

"Condoms are stupid" - some dirty ho

SweetSativa

NOS, I agree... my motto (well... not like I invented it...hehe) "Harm none, do what thy will" . But when laws are made, false petitions created from hateful hands (in the name of our lord, none-the-less), and entire people discriminated against.... there is a 'wrong' that is worse than any sin that I've heard of. My God is not a tyrant.... (and is also not short on cash)

__________________
"Why is it that when people talk to God, we call it praying but when God talks to people, we call it crazy?"- Touched by an Angel
http://www.youtube.com/user/immelody.../0/DDRj93dQ0O0

kamikazi89

whats going on sweet?

And i'm all for it "in thoery"

till i'm pissed off

...something about animals???

atantricchic

Quote:

Originally Posted by SweetSativa How important is it to you? Where do we draw the line? Do you feel that it is safe to practice any religion (or spiritual practice) of your choice? http://www.religioustolerance.org/var_rel.htm ("Neopagan faiths are modern-day reconstructions of ancient Pagan religions from various countries and eras. They experience a high level of discrimination and persecution in North America. They were once rarely practiced in public for reasons of safety. This is slowly changing for the better.").... my great-grandmother felt so insecure that she would not even speak aloud (but rather whispered) the names of the herbs that she needed to heal herself. In my home town, a couple moved in and began the preparations to open a 'transcendental meditation center' (of no specific faith) which would have brought many wealthy people to our area and given to the dying town economically. HOWEVER, they were run out of town by the people... there was a petition to remove them with many things listed as hazards such as (and no, I'm not making this up... taste my anger? ) 'they meditate while driving' and 'they will mutilate cattle'. Now, you people who believe that I hate Christians... try seeing things through my eyes... I spent 18 years here and this is not abnormal for the area that I live in. I was meant to be here... I love the land and it is in need of some opening of eyes. http://www.religioustolerance.org

I couldn't think of one reason to impede on someone else's spiritual development. Why? What would be the gain? I don't even try to convert. I don't see a reason for that. When someone wants to know, they'll ask. We all come with a sense of something greater... no need to print up a pamplet to get me going...lol

The only reasons I've witnessed to hinder to somone's faith involved a shitload of fear.

atantricchic

Quote:

Originally Posted by funky_unkle I don't draw the line at people's beliefs, but their actions. But I don't like religiousness in any form. Religion is man's effort to meet God. Jesus is God's effort to meet us. Beats me why anyone would want anything else, especially christians. They have total freedom under their noses, and then proceed to pick out commandments never given to them and make rules based on anything and everything. As if God can't see your heart through your clothes and politics and traditions. As if there is anything left to do when Jesus said "it is finished." As if my efforts would be any good to God. As if a ritual would please Him. As if GOD is so unable to guide me that I not only need to look after myself, but have others do it too. As if we need rules to live by instead of love. I've been a slave to religion myself, and I'm not going back.

Hmmm, you come with a very unique Christian viewpoint.

I think I like it!

SweetSativa

Hi Ron... well, the quote that you referred to was not mine. Maybe I was just blowin' off steam in this thread... I dunno. I was thinking about this as I was driving down the highway a while ago and I thought... you know... too bad I can't openly express my spirituality... have to worry about not wearing my pentagram in the public (really small towns here and they would be all 'concerned'... more than already... hehe... may even organize an intervention... rotflmao )... and then I came to the realization as I glanced out across the rocky hills and the beautiful land-scape... I CAN express my spirituality and people WILL feel it... I just don't have to openly lable it... and wont (except to those who I trust). I thought... there are alot of really great hearts and great people around here... some are very mislead and some are just outright hateful and don't realize it but why should I let that bother me? Kinda distracting from my path, actually.

However, this is what I am referring to (and NOS, this is the only problem or conflict that I have with your post)... it shouldn't HAVE to be done in private... as long as you are not impeding on anyone else's rights. I feel unsafe practicing publicly. Many of the things that I believe in are not at ALL accepted by the public and would look very strange to them and I may even be labled (officially...hehe) as completely crazy and perhaps not even fit to care for my children so it is a very deep fear. But I guess that these things are not particularly new... and perhaps there is a reason for discretion and secrecy...

__________________
"Why is it that when people talk to God, we call it praying but when God talks to people, we call it crazy?"- Touched by an Angel
http://www.youtube.com/user/immelody.../0/DDRj93dQ0O0

SweetSativa

Hahahaha... I just realized that my original post may have been completely misunderstood because I was pissed and hurrying when I wrote it. The couple who were going to start the transcendental meditation center would NEVER mutilate cattle (it was very obvious to me how obsurd that is... they are vegitarians and animal lovers) and the notion of meditating while driving was also rediculous... wouldn't go very deep... hehe... why would they need the secluded, country resort/ center if they could just do it in the car? and as a matter of interest, they were Jewish and this was going to be a non-specific/ non-religious center... I was simply trying to point out how rediculous (and as Tantric pointed out) completely fear-ridden the town was/ is.

__________________
"Why is it that when people talk to God, we call it praying but when God talks to people, we call it crazy?"- Touched by an Angel
http://www.youtube.com/user/immelody.../0/DDRj93dQ0O0

funky_unkle

Like it or not, there are religions that more or less require those who follow it to do so in public. Jehova's Witnesses, for example. They *have* to go on house visits. Islam is not unusually interpreted like the basis of an entire community. So to demand certain religions to be done in private is essentially the same as denying them altogether. And that's when the problem gets interesting.

There's also a problem with the "don't push your morals on me" attitude, because you can't use moral arguments to defend that view. If you do, you yourself are pushing *your* morals on them.

So I guess we're fucked.

__________________
A communist officer told a Christian he was beating, "I am almighty, as you suppose your God to be. I can kill you."
The Christian answered, "The power is all on my side. I can love you while you torture me to death."

Real Corona

Should we accept the beliefs of the Bemu people in the Congo that if they smear the blood of their enemies and hang their organs from their necks that they become bullet proof?

funky_unkle

So did Paul, so I'm in good company :P

__________________
A communist officer told a Christian he was beating, "I am almighty, as you suppose your God to be. I can kill you."
The Christian answered, "The power is all on my side. I can love you while you torture me to death."

Real Corona

Where did that qoute come from?

North_of_Sanity

What the fuck are you talking about? Telling someone to "mind their business" isn't pushing a belief.

I don't tell people what to believe. If you want to kneel down and pray to your ceiling fan, good for you. Just don't tell me I shouldn't smoke marijuana because of what your "God" believes is right and wrong.

I've had people tell me I'm going to "Hell" for being a pot-smoker. Fuck that!

__________________
"His professional diagnosis: Narcissistic Personality Disorder. My unprofessional diagnosis: Nut-Job!" - Jim Rome

"I don't have a girlfriend. But I know a woman who would be upset if she heard me say that." - Mitch Hedberg

"Condoms are stupid" - some dirty ho

SweetSativa

I'm sorry but what does that have to do with the price of tea in China? I didn't say that we should all 'accept' or believe the same thing.... I'm talking about acceptance and respect for one another's belief. I'll have to do a bit of research about this particular belief as it has been my observation that the most ludicrous interpretations of beliefs have been relayed about other beliefs... for instance, perhaps the blood of their enemies is worn as a protective force... magickally (don't know though... that would be my guess).

__________________
"Why is it that when people talk to God, we call it praying but when God talks to people, we call it crazy?"- Touched by an Angel
http://www.youtube.com/user/immelody.../0/DDRj93dQ0O0

SweetSativa

But you're telling them that they shouldn't tell you and maybe you shouldn't tell them but they shouldn't tell you... boop boop ba doo ... (they believe they're right and most of them do not have bad intentions but believe they are doing the work of the lord... on the other hand, many are just looking for an excuse for their anger and hatred... I don't want to be one of them... and I don't want to be around them)

I don't like being told that I'm going to hell for smoking weed nor for exploring my spiritual roots (or following my heart rather than everyone else) but I also don't like being told that I am delusional, my brother. So, in the end... what difference does it make if someone tells you you are going to hell (ya can't go there if ya don't believe in it, right)? The problem emerges when laws are formed, people are forced from society, etc because of their beliefs. I do wish that everyone would try to understand the path of another rather than judging it 'bad' or 'sinful' but I guess that just aint gonna happen.

__________________
"Why is it that when people talk to God, we call it praying but when God talks to people, we call it crazy?"- Touched by an Angel
http://www.youtube.com/user/immelody.../0/DDRj93dQ0O0

funky_unkle

NOS,
I'm just playing with ideas and words. When you feel someone is pushing their morals on you and telling you how to live, you think they're doing something morally wrong, arent' you? You'd like them to follow another moral code, namely yours. See?

__________________
A communist officer told a Christian he was beating, "I am almighty, as you suppose your God to be. I can kill you."
The Christian answered, "The power is all on my side. I can love you while you torture me to death."

SweetSativa

Hahaha... geesh

__________________
"Why is it that when people talk to God, we call it praying but when God talks to people, we call it crazy?"- Touched by an Angel
http://www.youtube.com/user/immelody.../0/DDRj93dQ0O0

atantricchic

Quote:

Originally Posted by Real Corona Should we accept the beliefs of the Bemu people in the Congo that if they smear the blood of their enemies and hang their organs from their necks that they become bullet proof?

How about those religions that encourage you to cut off a piece of your child's dick. Some bite it off. The child's blood in thier mouths. And flesh of the child's penis in their teeth!

That is obvious and undisputable child abuse when looked at practically.

But in the context of religion, it is considered a loving event.

Think outside the box.