SquirrelDog

I love moments like these. They're what make life worth living.

Great response NOS.


-SD

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funky_unkle

NOS, I don't know what story you're referring to. Jesus spoke to everyone, though some of it was directed at certain people in certain situations, but that can be understood from the context. Both before and after the cross, He sent His disciples out to tell people about Him. You seem to be quite confused about bible history sometimes.

My point is that if you agree there might be a creator, why is it so unprobable that He interferes with his creation somehow?

I don't think it's irrational. It might not seem obvious and like the only possible conclusion, but you could compare it to finding a clock and see how it works - it may make you think someone made it.In my mind there is no doubt that creation neccesiates a creator, though it's a valid option to think it all came about by chance.I don't think the bible refers to itself as "the word of God". In fact, it's the words of a lot of people. Kings, whores, prophets, servants, poets, physicians, Jesus. I could throw around a lot of arguments about how the bible has turned out to be historically accurate and things like that, but the reason I believe personally is that I've been so fucked up and close to death in so many ways and needed help beyond what people could give me. So I figured I should ask Jesus, just in case He was there. Turned out He was. Among other things, I would get physically sick if I forgot to take my anti-depression meds. I could just throw them out later after realizing I'd forgot to take them for a week. Same with other drugs. Depression and everything vanished instantly. A peace you can only dream of if you haven't felt it yourself. Far from the numbness and apathy drugs can give. Instead of keeping going to therapy to deconstruct my mind, I got an entire new one. And I experience Jesus every day, because sometimes I worry about stuff or start hating on people, but every single time I turn to Him, He takes it away and gives me love, even for assholes.

I can't explain it to you, but I can tell you what happened. Simple logic says if Jesus was right about being able and willing to help me, a loser living 2000 years after Him, He probably was right about a lot of other things too.

The most important question to me isnt how the world came to be or what Noah's ark looked like. That's kinda trivial actually. What I need to know is how I can have peace, what to do if people hate me (or I them), some kind of solution to the world's problems. And that's what I found. Not a religion or a way to think or act, but Jesus.

btw, Jesus is what makes my faith so extremely unlike any other faith you might find. Only christianity (though technically I don't consider myself christian) has a saviour.

__________________
A communist officer told a Christian he was beating, "I am almighty, as you suppose your God to be. I can kill you."
The Christian answered, "The power is all on my side. I can love you while you torture me to death."

funky_unkle

I want to say something about faith.

You can't just decide to believe in something. It comes by what you hear, or whatever is revealed to you. You might fool yourself into thinking you believe something, but that's self-conceit and the bubble can burst any day.

And I've suffered enough under blind faith and opinions and attitudes I've just adapted from others.

It's not like I have a super strong faith or anything, and I find that when I doubt, or find it hard to trust God, it doesn't make any sense that I should try and conjure up some faith on my own. It would be as fragile and human as any philosophy we might cling to. Besides, if there is a God who knows everything, He probably appreciates honesty more than a false faith, even if it's strong enough to move a mountain.

I neither can nor want to produce my own faith. So I say, "God, if you're real, you must give me faith in you because I don't see you and people will tell me I believe in a lie and in any case I'm a crazy guy living in a crazy world." And believe me (sic), that's one hell of a tough prayer to say. It's about giving it all up, jeapordizing everything you base your life and understanding on, and laying it in the hands of a God you can't even prove exists.

It's about playing the ball over to God, and I suggest everybody do that, regardless of whatever you believe beforehand. Christians and muslims and new agers and atheists, all of you. Get rid of the lies and the wishful thinking.

That's the reason my faith is strong, to the degree it actually is strong.

If you're so sure you believe the right thing and that all the evidence points to where you're standing, there's no danger in laying it away and start over, is there? Think about it. Are you scared what you believe might not be entirely true after all? Believers, are you afraid there is no God? Atheists, are you afraid there is?

Thoughts?

__________________
A communist officer told a Christian he was beating, "I am almighty, as you suppose your God to be. I can kill you."
The Christian answered, "The power is all on my side. I can love you while you torture me to death."

SweetSativa

Well, my God isn't short on cash so i don't fill a collection plate and my interpretation and complete understanding of the bible is WAYYYYYYY different than yours (i'm not sure that they are even the same books). There is much symbolism (imo) and there are parts of the bible that I do not agree with at all (how could I, they basically chastised my people right and left... completely opposite to that which Jesus taught). I feel like you think that the bible somehow suggests a big man in the sky with a flowing white beard and I don't see that ANYWHERE in there. To me, that sounds more like Merlin . From my view, it is symbolic... God created us in his image and with the WORD "let there be...", there was. You strive to look for proof that there is NOT, I strive to see what IS. One is not better than the other... the only thing that matters is what is in your heart... not what is in your head (or not in your head ).

Now... who returned from hell? He taught those who had the capacity and were open to hear his intention. The truth is there for all. I'm not Christian... I am (by blood and by nature) Pagan and Native American but I know the great spirit when it speaks and it spoke through him... and continues to do so. I don't believe the way the Christians around me do but I try very hard not to mentally burn them as they did my anscestors. It's hypocritical and goes against my path, the path of a true Christian, or any decent human being.

"We're not here to judge what's good from bad... but to do the things that are right. It's your own conscience that is gonna remind you... that it's your heart and nobody elses that its' got to judge... be unselfish in your doings... pass it on... live for yourself you will live in vain... live for others and live again... in the kingdom of Jah, man shall reign... pass it onnnnnnn... on a hot summer day, all of the shadows for rescue but AS THE DAY GROWS OLD I know the sun's gonna find ya..." Bob Marley ... Pass it On.

and perhaps your anger originates from this view (if not... mine does):

"You can leave it all behind and sail to lahaina, just like the missionaries did so many years ago... they even brought a neon sign that said "JESUS IS COMING" brought the white man's burden down, and brought the white man's reign. Who will provide the grande design... what is yours and what is mine... 'cuz there is no more new frontier WE HAVE GOT TO MAKE IT HERE... satisfy our endless needs, JUSTIFY OUR BLOODY DEEDS, IN THE NAME OF DESTINY AND IN THE NAME OF GOD; and you can see them there... . on Sunday morning... they stand up and sing about, what it's like up there... they call it paradise... I don't know why, you call someplace paradise and kiss it goodbye...." Gotta love Don Henley... wow.

Look at people more deeply... regardless of your religious/ spiritual beliefs. Do you want to look for what you hate or do you want to look for what you love? It's really a choice that each of us makes, each minute of our lives.

__________________
"Why is it that when people talk to God, we call it praying but when God talks to people, we call it crazy?"- Touched by an Angel
http://www.youtube.com/user/immelody.../0/DDRj93dQ0O0

SweetSativa

Amen, my brother!!! There is a new Spirit of Truth and this is what shall set us free.
I completely agree in the 'what have you got to lose'... that's where I have come from. Show me.... Lord, show me ... I put myself in your hands and give my life to you. To me, the name and the man 'Jesus' gives hope and gives comfort but is no more 'God' than I AM. However, i see no belief as above another... we are all shown a portion of the truth but it is probably a complete false belief to think that any of us holds the one and only truth within our hands (of course, this too is a limiting belief that keeps me from being completely tolerant)... that turns me off... the notion that one arrogantly believes his path to be the one for all. Just me though.

__________________
"Why is it that when people talk to God, we call it praying but when God talks to people, we call it crazy?"- Touched by an Angel
http://www.youtube.com/user/immelody.../0/DDRj93dQ0O0

Canuck Wisdom

This is a perfect example of what I mean about a moment of realization of absolute truth.

No matter how he says it, it always just means love.

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-Knowitall A&P type-

funky_unkle

SweetSativa, will you marry me? Unless you're a guy, that is.

__________________
A communist officer told a Christian he was beating, "I am almighty, as you suppose your God to be. I can kill you."
The Christian answered, "The power is all on my side. I can love you while you torture me to death."

Canuck Wisdom

I thought I was your one and only.

__________________
-Knowitall A&P type-

funky_unkle

My one, but not my only. I have plenty love, pass it on.

__________________
A communist officer told a Christian he was beating, "I am almighty, as you suppose your God to be. I can kill you."
The Christian answered, "The power is all on my side. I can love you while you torture me to death."

North_of_Sanity

How is that "a conversation with God?"

Or as 'CanuckWisdom' says "a moment of absolute truth?"


You're just making things seem more relevant than they really are.

Like when people get into a bloody car wreck, and they live. They say shit like "Oh, my the grace of God I lived."

It's just people making something out of nothing.


You're really not making any sense to me.

You, nor does anyone, have any idea how and why we're here. So, why do you attribute life experiences to "God"?

__________________
"His professional diagnosis: Narcissistic Personality Disorder. My unprofessional diagnosis: Nut-Job!" - Jim Rome

"I don't have a girlfriend. But I know a woman who would be upset if she heard me say that." - Mitch Hedberg

"Condoms are stupid" - some dirty ho

Ego Tripping

Why not?

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funky_unkle

Sometimes you really say a lot with few words, Ego.Or nothing out of something Just to bitch: how would you know? Because you personally can't seem to find a meaning to life? If everything in nature depends on other things in nature, and in that respect have purpose, why not you and me?

Anyway you got my answer to why (and partly how) I believe. Do you need to hear everybody's different reasons in order not to disqualify it as fantasies?

__________________
A communist officer told a Christian he was beating, "I am almighty, as you suppose your God to be. I can kill you."
The Christian answered, "The power is all on my side. I can love you while you torture me to death."

Lions & Christians (PB)

i'd like to dissolve the word "god" here.

let's think about our set current world. one could veiw the world as a seperate entity, a outside force being pushed into your brain by the use of your senses.

or one could view it as a enternal force, something of their own creation. that all this scenery and noises, nouns and verbs, are all of our creation to help deal with a formless void known as ourselves.

the logic binding either thought is only dictated by whoever is in the room, neither one can be proven right or wrong, and to be quite frank their both pretty much talking about the same thing.

now let's think about our set definition of what god is.

In just about all religions, god is the creator. in thought pattern one, god would be the outside force spinning the atoms through your body, aiding light to your eyes, and radio waves to your ear drums. in this logic, one could easily listen too this force by stopping and looking around. stilling yourself and watching which way the wind blows, it's not an illusion after all, it's the almighty talking to you. Now talking to this force would be when you pray and it magically happens or you come to some petty realization that sparks your body to release chemicals. you could call these delusions, but hey, atleast their working delusions. they give you order, and help you sort your world, and if you keep this order, it very well will become your god/creater.

I know that may sound crude, and self decepting, but hey, if you really want to dig deep enough into what real is real, you'd probably pray for your delusions to return!

in thought pattern two, god would be whatever is inside of you that holds the world as it is so you can cope with yourself, in other words, the "higher self", the all knowing. communicating with this force is quite logical when one is sorting out themselves, and more importantly, themselves and the world. Putting two and two together on why they really liked a child hood cartoon, or boxers to briefs. when one gets a look at the origenal archeotype, the reason that could not be seen before, that is god talking to you. that is god (which is you) letting you see what you could not see before.

talking to this force is done by controlling your thoughts toward that change, that revelation, that with what you are trying to connect with. this is usually done by praying, or spells, rituals, whatever, its all the same thing: turning your thoughts towards that connection/change.

now put in these terms, talking to god doesnt seem so assnine or crazy, atleast to me.

it's been in my experience that if you get rid of the terms and dogmas believe it or not some truth is there. of course this is coming from one of those crazy motherfuckers who like LSD and mushies and purposely use them to bend my own personal world.

oh, im sorry if i offended anyone, your god is the only one, i promise, and dont worry, im returning back to FFA

__________________
The most dangerous drug on this planet has to be oxygen.

A gateway drug to say the least, further more people use without even consideration, not consenting to moderation in the least, and dont even get me started on the withdrawels.

the goal of alchemy is to turn lead into gold. to take a substance and combine it with another substance that makes it more than it's origenal worth. in this sense, you really need to start making bronze statues of your pharmacist or local chemist, for they have made gods own medicine, morphine, and in contrast, a shiney rock doesnt seem to compete.

funky_unkle

You say some cool things. It's a little hard to follow, but based on your logic I think it's even more important to "nutralize" yourself as much as possible. I think we never can be 100% neutral, but we can get a long way, and I think people will be amazed at what they can find out when they do that. Just imagine for a second that what you're sure of is a total lie. Scary, yes? Would you take the chance on finding out it's an illusion? Sending your entire understanding of things out into space and being 100% open to whatever answer may come back? But I ramble again.

I missed discussion of miracles in your post, LC.

__________________
A communist officer told a Christian he was beating, "I am almighty, as you suppose your God to be. I can kill you."
The Christian answered, "The power is all on my side. I can love you while you torture me to death."

funky_unkle

No, stay, we have cake!

__________________
A communist officer told a Christian he was beating, "I am almighty, as you suppose your God to be. I can kill you."
The Christian answered, "The power is all on my side. I can love you while you torture me to death."

Lions & Christians (PB)

i agree 100%.

I am merely thoughts swirling around in set location. i am unaware of the location, and im mostly unaware of the thoughts.

i dont have much choice of being bias do I? if we wish to discuss my logic however, it's something a bit different than what's posted above.

NOS seemed to be asking for god to be put in words, i did my best.



actually i have spent many acid trips and mushie binges pondering that set question.

and yes, im pretty sure i would take that chance to take a peek behind the curtain. i have more than a few memories of times when i did, and a few times when i believe i actually got a glimpse. i have made connections with my world, however their my connections and only prove things to me. they dont do much for any of you other seperate entities, plus their rather boring and involve quite a bit of mother-father issues that freud sums up alot better than me.

and yes, i do believe automatic responses are form of connection towards the higher self. however being open to these responses need quite a bit of work, and what your really opening yourself to is anyone's guess.

miracles can be alot of things, they can be god/your mind showing you a glitch in the fabric, or conversely your god/mind not being able to cope with a change. I.E. escaping death, because you could not handle death.

or they could be chance of luck, or something completely else.

i dont know, but i use them as signs, and that seems to work.

__________________
The most dangerous drug on this planet has to be oxygen.

A gateway drug to say the least, further more people use without even consideration, not consenting to moderation in the least, and dont even get me started on the withdrawels.

the goal of alchemy is to turn lead into gold. to take a substance and combine it with another substance that makes it more than it's origenal worth. in this sense, you really need to start making bronze statues of your pharmacist or local chemist, for they have made gods own medicine, morphine, and in contrast, a shiney rock doesnt seem to compete.

SweetSativa

It's a big bed.

__________________
"Why is it that when people talk to God, we call it praying but when God talks to people, we call it crazy?"- Touched by an Angel
http://www.youtube.com/user/immelody.../0/DDRj93dQ0O0

North_of_Sanity

You said you had a "conversation with God"

Then I merely explained to you how it's just a figment of your imagination. Something you make up in your head in an attempt to give your life meaning.

Just because you force yourself to believe you converse with God, doesn't mean it's real.

I just don't like when people try and pull wool over my eyes.

"Ya, I talk with God." Sure you do

__________________
"His professional diagnosis: Narcissistic Personality Disorder. My unprofessional diagnosis: Nut-Job!" - Jim Rome

"I don't have a girlfriend. But I know a woman who would be upset if she heard me say that." - Mitch Hedberg

"Condoms are stupid" - some dirty ho

Ego Tripping

I think that you're thinking its my imagination is just your imagination.

Who forced it? I was Atheist and was comfortable. This was a mutual thing. And that's exactly what makes it real.

I'm going to do what you do and re-quote myself in a vain attempt you'll understand.

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North_of_Sanity

umm...No! Reality is that which is absolute and proven.

You thinking you "talk to God" is imaginary.


Sorry to burst your holy bubble!

__________________
"His professional diagnosis: Narcissistic Personality Disorder. My unprofessional diagnosis: Nut-Job!" - Jim Rome

"I don't have a girlfriend. But I know a woman who would be upset if she heard me say that." - Mitch Hedberg

"Condoms are stupid" - some dirty ho