Mescalito

So wheres your proof of reality? What do you mean about reality being absolute?



M

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Jungle Monkey

North_of_Sanity

There is no absolute proof that anyone's interpretation of "God" exists, so when people try and convey their beliefs as fact, I tend to get upset about it because I know they're 100% wrong.

The only thing absolute is that no one knows how the earth and life was created. Just like how no one knows what happens after death. Some believe we go to "Heaven" or "Hell", some think we're reincarnated.

People just believe whatever makes them feel comfortable. There's nothing absolute about it whatsoever.

Nothing absolute suggests that there is "Good" and "Evil." They're just people's points of view. The only laws are physical ones. Anyone can do whatever they want in their own power without any divine consequence.

Should people be immoral and kill and rape and steal? No! Obviously people should have morals. But does some divine power punish those who kill, rape, and steal? No! Why? Because it appears there is no divine spirit that punishes people for their actions.

It's all 100% human doctrine.

__________________
"His professional diagnosis: Narcissistic Personality Disorder. My unprofessional diagnosis: Nut-Job!" - Jim Rome

"I don't have a girlfriend. But I know a woman who would be upset if she heard me say that." - Mitch Hedberg

"Condoms are stupid" - some dirty ho

snapshot

I think they were trying to prove facts as 100% belief, and then make it work the other way around for them.



I JUST BLEW YOUR MIND. VICE VERSA STYLE!!!


WHAT-TAW!!!

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We are all atheists about most of the gods that society has ever believed in. Some of us just go one god further.
-Richard Dawkins

North_of_Sanity

No one "talks to God", O.K.!

__________________
"His professional diagnosis: Narcissistic Personality Disorder. My unprofessional diagnosis: Nut-Job!" - Jim Rome

"I don't have a girlfriend. But I know a woman who would be upset if she heard me say that." - Mitch Hedberg

"Condoms are stupid" - some dirty ho

snapshot

Do you ever "Talk to your dead relatives"? Or yourself? Can you prove you exist? Do you not not talk to yourself?

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We are all atheists about most of the gods that society has ever believed in. Some of us just go one god further.
-Richard Dawkins

North_of_Sanity

Wouldn't want to....change subjects or anything

No, I don't talk to dead relatives.

How do you talk to yourself? Like a schizophrenic talking to their other personality?


Where are you going with this?

__________________
"His professional diagnosis: Narcissistic Personality Disorder. My unprofessional diagnosis: Nut-Job!" - Jim Rome

"I don't have a girlfriend. But I know a woman who would be upset if she heard me say that." - Mitch Hedberg

"Condoms are stupid" - some dirty ho

Ego Tripping

Thats my point. I am fully aware and comfortable with the fact that it might actually be my imagination. But that belief system requires just as much Faith as believing that it's truly the Voice of God...we truly do not know at all.

Either way, its an experience, and there's no way we can judge one another's as true or false. Once again...you seem to seek ways to keep your mind closed rather than come here to find doorways to new styles of thought. But to each his own man...

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snapshot

Usually when I talk to myself I'm either bored, impersonating someone or making funny voices, trying to remember something, or laughing. I can't believe you never talk to yourself. I figured everyone talked to themself.

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We are all atheists about most of the gods that society has ever believed in. Some of us just go one god further.
-Richard Dawkins

Mescalito

Ok your reply was a little confusing. I see what you mean.. but what i was trying to get at is how did you come to those beliefs? Why do you think reality isnt subjective.. whether it really is or not.

My interpretation of 'GOD' is everything. So in a sense wheever i communicate im doing it from one through one to one. The deception is the fun part.

M

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Jungle Monkey

North_of_Sanity

Well, good for you. But...that's not "reality." It's just your "faith." Reality is not subjective. Nothing in reality suggests that anyone's interpretation of God is true.

"The invisible and the non-existant look very much alike." - Delos McKown

Anyone who believes the revelations of the Bible is fucking stupid. "Jesus is going to return from the sky on a big white horse and unleash Armagedon." Ya, sure.

Obviously people should have morals, but I don't get why people need to brainwash themselves with thousand-year-old fairy tales to shape them.

Just read my sig
V V V V V V

__________________
"His professional diagnosis: Narcissistic Personality Disorder. My unprofessional diagnosis: Nut-Job!" - Jim Rome

"I don't have a girlfriend. But I know a woman who would be upset if she heard me say that." - Mitch Hedberg

"Condoms are stupid" - some dirty ho

snapshot

I think you misinterpret how extensively we perceive reality as subjective.

__________________
We are all atheists about most of the gods that society has ever believed in. Some of us just go one god further.
-Richard Dawkins

Mescalito

"True faith in a god is like believing there's aliens outside of our solar system. It's cute; But it's essentially pointless behaviour. Just like how worrying about whether you're going to 'Heaven' or 'Hell' after you die is essentially pointless behaviour.

Just treat others how you wish to be treated. Nothing more is needed. There's no spirit up in the sky that's judging your every move. Believing that is total insanity." - Me

I think beliefs shape your reality so believing in god may be useful to some people. Like if i believe god is everything and im am god and everyone else is and its all connected. That belief gives me reasurence in my potential.. its a way of feeling like im not alone im not just this one individual locked off from everything else.. when i need it. Its sorta like my secret source of power. If i have beliefs like these for example then they affect the way i percieve for the better.

Its the same with heaven and hell.. they are useful beliefs to people who feel they need to have some kind of punishment so they retain their moral values. If i believed in reincarnation instead of just ceasing to exists then that thought alone gives me respect for the earth... because i believe im coming back at some point. Its not just something i would respect for my childrens sake.

and to the final part of your signature... whats insane about having a belief.. weather it benefits you or not? after all didnt you say before that nothing can be proven... so doesnt that mean that everything you believe in is based on faith in something.

Hope you see what im getting at?

M

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Jungle Monkey

SmokeSomeDoja

i find it kind of ironic how people are discussing thier relationships with "god" and nos comes in and is the one actually trying to change peoples opinions about themselves and what they know as "god."

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fotoz fo yo azz



"I've run over black cats that were luckier than me."

funky_unkle

Actually, a lot of people believe things that make them feel utterly uncomfortable. ^
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How is it so obvious that people should have morals and be good, if good and bad doesn't even exist?

I can't "prove" good and bad and morals exist, I can only refer to our common opinion that they do. You do believe in good and bad yourself, everybody does. And, at least IMO, that's a clue to their existence. In any case you can't deny them or live without them.I don't agree. Things are real regardless of whether or not they're proven. Besides, it's hard to use that kinda logic on things like thoughts and ideas and anything else non-material. Don't you believe in a thing or two that's never been proven? For example, that there is no such thing as a God?

__________________
A communist officer told a Christian he was beating, "I am almighty, as you suppose your God to be. I can kill you."
The Christian answered, "The power is all on my side. I can love you while you torture me to death."

Mescalito

Classic!

M

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Jungle Monkey

funky_unkle

BTW, you're touching an important point there.

You could say the Jewish ten commandments are good. So are the American Indian ten commandments, and for that matter "all you need is love."
The problem, of course, is that all those rules and principles may be the best ever, but people just don't live by them. Seems we're unable to. I can't. You can't. A lot of people understand this, and ask God for help. A lot of people misunderstand it too, and make intricate rules and ceremonies and offerings (like those indian types raising their arm until it goes stiff or live in caves all their lives), all to control and tame the "bad" part of us. Evil, if you will. Or unrighteousness, or shortcomings.

God has proven Himself to me beyond any doubt. I have a steady faith since I stopped trying to convince myself and left it to Him. So when you boil it down, my trying to make God "probable" to you has very little value. Don't leave it to US to prove God exists, leave it to HIM. If He can't give you faith, nobody can. And if you've decided to close your heart and mind around atheism, nobody can open it again but yourself.

Am I making sense?

__________________
A communist officer told a Christian he was beating, "I am almighty, as you suppose your God to be. I can kill you."
The Christian answered, "The power is all on my side. I can love you while you torture me to death."

SmokeSomeDoja

although i can see where youre coming from nos, i do "talk to god," and of that im sure. (granted, not usually or strictly through christian prayer, usually meditation) -- sure as anything else im sure of

__________________
fotoz fo yo azz



"I've run over black cats that were luckier than me."

Ego Tripping

That is subjectivity, slick. You don't know what you believe. I think I'll stick to my over-active 'imagination.'

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SmokeSomeDoja

absolutely



sorry to kind of hijack this thread, but heres my tangent



nos...on the topic of reincarnation (keep in mind im not trying to force you to believe this, just asking your subjective opinion on the matter)


if something is so concrete for the 14th dalai lama, one of the if not the greatest (in my subjective opinions) spiritual leaders of the world, who are you to say its not real?




"when i was barely three years old, a team charged by the lhasa gov't with the task of finding the reincarnation of the Dalai Lama arrived at the monestary in kumbum. various signs led these men to my parents farm, where they spent the night playing with me and observing me very closely. they returned a few days later with a set of objects that had belonged to the 13th Dalai Lama, and other identicle objects that not not belonged to him. presented with each one of the objects that had belonged to him, i would cry out 'this is mine! this is mine!' that is how i was eventually recognized as the new Dalai Lama."





some other quotes


"every action that is conscious, and that aims at bringing about a result, arises from a motivation. my religion is very simple: my key motivation is love. my religion is kindness."



"like and dislike, gain and loss, praise and blame, fame and disgrace: these are the eight mundane concerns which condition our existance."



"The history of humanity is, in some respects, the history of man's understanding. Historical events, wars, progress, tradegies, and so on, all of these reflect the negative and positive thoughts of mankind. All the great personalities of history, the liberators, the great thinkers, all such people reflect positive thinking; whereas tragic events, tyranny, and terrible wars have resulted from negative thinking. Therefore the only thing that is really worthwhile is to increase the power and influence of positive thinking, and to reduce the occurence of negative thinking. If you let anger and hatred run loose, you are lost. And no sensible human being wants to get lost."




"One might say that religion is kind of luxury. If you have a religion, that is good. But it is clear that even without religion we can manage. However, without basic human qualities such as love, compassion, and kindness, we cannot survive. They are essential to out own peace and mental stability."



"We acknowledge the existance of higher beings, or at least of a ceratin higher state of being; we believe in oracles, in premonitions, in dream interpretation, and in rebirth. But we dont attempt to impose these beliefs on anyone else, even though for us they are certanties. We never try to convert. Buddhism is an experience...and an experience that is personal. One of the main teachings of the Buddha is: 'Rely only on yourself.'"




thoughts, nos?

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fotoz fo yo azz



"I've run over black cats that were luckier than me."

funky_unkle

Out of curiosity, what is "christian prayer" to you?

__________________
A communist officer told a Christian he was beating, "I am almighty, as you suppose your God to be. I can kill you."
The Christian answered, "The power is all on my side. I can love you while you torture me to death."