SmokeSomeDoja

christian prayer involves me making the sign of the cross (i actually kind of have to do this, its habit but i feel kind of absent without doing it)...then actually having verbal conversation with god (which i basically consider me, or anything really...so i dont know if thats really "christian.") -- for ex/ "god, please help me to..." etc etc

im not asking a being to give me anything, im asking "what is" to help me understand something more fully, i guess.



whereas meditation is just slowing myself and not talking, nor thinking, just being with the moment. i gain great insight through both

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fotoz fo yo azz



"I've run over black cats that were luckier than me."

North_of_Sanity

umm...you prove things to be true, not false.

Also, when did I say there is no "God" Obviously something created life. But anyone who thinks it's Jesus of Nazareth's spiritual daddy up in the sky is a fuckin' retard.

He said "Let there be light." Ya, sure


It makes sense to me how brainwashed you are. That's about it!

If no one ever gave you a Bible, or preached the "word" to your virgin ears what kind of faith would you have?

How has God proven himself to you?

Why should I believe Jesus of Nazareth was sent to earth by our spirutual daddy up the clouds to die for our sins and save our souls from some boogieman devil? Give me one reason.

Because the Bible said so?

__________________
"His professional diagnosis: Narcissistic Personality Disorder. My unprofessional diagnosis: Nut-Job!" - Jim Rome

"I don't have a girlfriend. But I know a woman who would be upset if she heard me say that." - Mitch Hedberg

"Condoms are stupid" - some dirty ho

SmokeSomeDoja

nos, you reallllly really oversimplify religion (choose one of many)


take a crash course on the worlds religions to at least get a simple grasp of what religion is

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fotoz fo yo azz



"I've run over black cats that were luckier than me."

North_of_Sanity

I wasn't talking about other religions. I was talking about Christianity. People who actually think Jesus of Nazareth's spirit if protecting us from Satan and an eternal firepit.

Like these American protesters you see that hold signs "REPENT OR ELSE." and draw fire around it.

I'm talking about idiots that actually think the revelations of the Bible are true.

__________________
"His professional diagnosis: Narcissistic Personality Disorder. My unprofessional diagnosis: Nut-Job!" - Jim Rome

"I don't have a girlfriend. But I know a woman who would be upset if she heard me say that." - Mitch Hedberg

"Condoms are stupid" - some dirty ho

Mescalito

have you ever heard of inductive and deductuive reasoning?

http://www.yahooka.com/forum/showthr...ientific+proof

M

North_of_Sanity

Like how it's stupid to believe anything with insufficient evidence? Yup!

__________________
"His professional diagnosis: Narcissistic Personality Disorder. My unprofessional diagnosis: Nut-Job!" - Jim Rome

"I don't have a girlfriend. But I know a woman who would be upset if she heard me say that." - Mitch Hedberg

"Condoms are stupid" - some dirty ho

Canuck Wisdom

I'm going to try to show what I believe the devil to be.

Evil things inside my head that hold me from evolving my spirit... things that make my life static in thought or deed. Worry and fear, egotistical nonesense that can build upon itself till it ruins me and pulls me into darkness... into hell, shelob, depression... etc.

These sorts of things are Satan, the Devil, Lucifer.

Not some fiery beast that will crawl up from the abyss to throw me to eternal damnation if I don't repent.

However!!!! These sorts of things make sense to me... these sorts of words. Because althought the imagery is much different on a literal sense they essentially say the same thing to me. One is a more metaphorical analysis and one is a more psychological one.

The ever present Love of our Holy God is change. Forgetting and forgiving... second chances and moving on. The ebb and flow and the objective experiences that bind us. When my world becomes exceedingly subjective I loose touch with the Lord.

As a post script note. My personal belief, to clear this up ^, is that we all live in subjective realities (obviously that can't be denied... we take everything our own way) however we are all united by the world, Gaia, the world Spirit, God almighty, Yakway (< thats definitly spelled wrong). This uniting thing, the universe and all in it, is the single (monotheism) objective reality.

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-Knowitall A&P type-

Mescalito

That belief that you just said ^right there^ Whats your sufficient evidence for that? Do you go by the number of different pieces evidence for one thing.. does it matter how strong each piece of evidence is? If something is 'proven' with ten bits of evidence and the something else with one.. then is the one with ten pieces closer to being 'proven'?

M

ziplock

hey all awesome conversation. took me a bit to read it so a lot of thoughts i had were lost and im on my way out to smoke so i gotta keep this brief... i always find it funny when people critisize others for a faith in god. isn't physical existence simply that? a belief, or faith, based on sense data we recieve. and what are these experiences people are talking about but more sense data being recieved? both are real, it's all where u place ur beliefs. in the end it boils down to a point of consciousness, or perception, which recieves data and interprets it. the only true "reality" is that point, or state of consciousness, as far as we know, all other things are subjective to that point. basically at the end of the day all you can rely on is that point, so this is what turns me towards looking inward for the answers, not outward to the physical reality or to some spiritual dogma and doctorine as the bible. i rely on myself, and i take these sources to learn about myself, and thus my reality, and ultimately my existence. this is also why i don't subscribe myself to any set belief or doctrine, instead i take their teachings, and use them as best i can to discover and explore my most intimate reality: my mind.

anyways, thats a lot of scattered thoughts... i hope it makes some sense and if the topics still going i'll come back and expand on it some more! and another question, why do you have to speak, or say words, to have a conversation w/ god? everyone expects this voice to come echoing out from inside their mind slapping them into sense and setting their reality straight, or saying "hey dude, pass the joint." if that's how you recieve it, great for u, but to say that's how everyone will recieve the message would be to say that's how everyone will interpret a symbol. just doesn't work that way, it's coming from an external source through an internal means. this is why meditation and training ur mind to recieve such things is so important, because the message is sent through that mind, through the personality. therefore, if u have ur mind on lockdown, or totally close-minded to all possibilities, you're already setting yourself up for failure. an open mind is the best mind, because if this existence is based on possibilities, which it seems so, then we should explore those possibilities and perspectives, not limit ourselves.

and btw, ppl really need to stop bashing jesus just because christianity decided to use his teachings (selectively at that) as a basis for religion.

"If those who lead you say to you, 'See the kingdom is in the sky,' then the birds will precede you. If they say to you, 'It is in the sea,' then the fish will precede you. Rather the kingdom is inside of you and it is outside of you. When you come to know yourselves, then you will become known, and you will realize that it is you who are the sons of the living father. But if you will not know yourselves, you dwell in poverty and it is you who are that poverty."
Jesus - Gospel of Thomas

"And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God cometh not with observation: Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you." (Luke 17:21)

also, heres a site some of you may find useful/interesting. i havent read through it a lot so i cannot comment on the content or my opinion of it, but it does cover a large amount of topics: http://www.experiencefestival.com/

salam to all those seekers of truth and peace may the light/sound/feeling/voice/pixie/troll/sacred drug/w.e label you attempt to give it, show you the path to your salvation and fulfillment salam!

North_of_Sanity

What the fuck are you getting at?

Is this supposed to make me believe Jesus is our eternal saviour? Is this supposed to make me believe he died "for our sins" and not just tortured to death for being a jackass who taught apocalyptic horseshit?

__________________
"His professional diagnosis: Narcissistic Personality Disorder. My unprofessional diagnosis: Nut-Job!" - Jim Rome

"I don't have a girlfriend. But I know a woman who would be upset if she heard me say that." - Mitch Hedberg

"Condoms are stupid" - some dirty ho

Mescalito

Sweet post ziplock.

Im just getting used to playing the 'devils advocate'.

In the end im testing your beliefs whether you know it or not.. and that can only be good.. on many levels... and visa-versa for me.

Its conversations like this which let you decide which beliefs to chuck and which to enforce. That selection is what i think of as reality creation/manipulation.

Man im stonned.

M

Canuck Wisdom

Dude seriously... I have no problem with your position about God and so forth... but you really need to lay off on some of your incorrect notions about religion and spirituality, perticularly Christians. I couldn't care less about the end of the world... in fact I don't remember anything Jesus said about the end of the world, if he said anything at all (I know there is a lot of that in revelation, a rather controversial book). God is not a dude who sits in the clouds and throws lightening bolts, thats not what Christians believe so stop equating it to that sort of thing. Satan is not a beast, hell is not a physical place and neither is heaven. There is no fiery pit I am afraid of being cast into, thats imagery to prove a point. Jesus' teachings are about life, here and now.

You need to stop looking at things like 'Let there be light' in such a singular manner or you will never move along in your underdstanding of such things. Whether you choose to believe this stuff or not is up to you, but stop labelling such things with false and frankly immature notions. Of course you wouldn't believe in that stuff when you put it like that... who would?


Oh and... what exactly did Jesus do that makes him a Jackass? You know, aside from loving people.

__________________
-Knowitall A&P type-

North_of_Sanity

ummm...because he taught that anyone who didn't believe in his teachings were going to Hell.

And...he tried to tell the Jews that he was the Messiah whom they were awaiting for centuries.

Pretty much.....because he was full of shit.

__________________
"His professional diagnosis: Narcissistic Personality Disorder. My unprofessional diagnosis: Nut-Job!" - Jim Rome

"I don't have a girlfriend. But I know a woman who would be upset if she heard me say that." - Mitch Hedberg

"Condoms are stupid" - some dirty ho

SmokeSomeDoja

i dont recall him saying or implying that. could you elaborate?


that too, please elaborate.




and ditto on what canuch just said. fo real

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fotoz fo yo azz



"I've run over black cats that were luckier than me."

funky_unkle

Well, what's your version? What do you think He said? Or did? You don't have a clue? You have no idea how it happened, all you know is that's version is wrong?
btw, people read that particular verse in many ways.I tried to explain it in this post: http://www.yahooka.com/forum/showpos...8&postcount=66, but you never replied to it.
God isn't dependant on a bible, in fact excessive bible reading can become a hindrance, since God is Spirit, not ink. But regardless, it's an interesting question. That's why I take the huge risk of letting it all go and play the ball out into the unknown. Check the link for more.Again:

By giving me peace, love, hope, freedom from addictions, faith, sleep, a new and sound mind etc etc et fucking cetera.You wouldn't consider it sufficient evidence if God gave you all that?You're starting at the wrong end, dude. It's not about hearing a more or less plausible story. It's about getting what you need in case you should lack anything. For example, if you're loaded with fear, Jesus says "love casts out all fear." Feeling gulity? "He died for us while we were still sinners." Don't know what to do? "I am the good shepherd." Can't seem to make it on your own? "It is finished." Those are four reasons why people turn to Jesus. If you're not sick you don't need a doctor. You can say religion is a crutch, I say we are all born cripples. And I say I have a new set of legs.
Show me a righteous man. Show me a life where the "do unto others" rule actually makes a change. Show me how you can have a right to judge anybody about anything. Show me how you think individuals can become better people. Show me the strength we must have within ourselves if we are to have any hope without a God. Show me what a man can have that can't be destroyed by hunger, brainwashing, prison, suffering, riches, drugs, death.

Judging by numbers alone, you must admit there's a chance a whole lot of people notice a remarkable change after turning to God. I don't have a whole lot of faith in humanity by itself, but people aren't THAT dumb.
People don't go "oh God save me from the devil". You can lose that delusion right away.

edit: the qouting got fucked up, fixed it.

__________________
A communist officer told a Christian he was beating, "I am almighty, as you suppose your God to be. I can kill you."
The Christian answered, "The power is all on my side. I can love you while you torture me to death."

funky_unkle

Actually, he showed the self righteous pharisees that nah, they weren't good enough for God with all their religion and commandments, but that the asshole tax collector who approached God with humility would get in before they did.

As for the second comment, in your opinion Jesus didn't fulfill the messianic prophesies? Care to elaborate? Sources?

__________________
A communist officer told a Christian he was beating, "I am almighty, as you suppose your God to be. I can kill you."
The Christian answered, "The power is all on my side. I can love you while you torture me to death."

Canuck Wisdom

Man, I think you said that, not him.
Whos to say he wasn't? They think they're still waiting... I mean, hes gotta come some time right? Why not 2000 years ago?

__________________
-Knowitall A&P type-

North_of_Sanity

Keep filling that collection plate, man! Keep filling that collection plate!

__________________
"His professional diagnosis: Narcissistic Personality Disorder. My unprofessional diagnosis: Nut-Job!" - Jim Rome

"I don't have a girlfriend. But I know a woman who would be upset if she heard me say that." - Mitch Hedberg

"Condoms are stupid" - some dirty ho

North_of_Sanity

I can understand how the teachings of the Bible can help people become better persons.

But...that doesn't mean any of the Bible's revelations are true.

If you go to church to read a bunch of fairy tales and feel peace by praying to your ceiling fan, good for you. Tell me it's factual and absolute, I'm going to set you straight.

Do you actually believe Jesus is going to return from the sky on a big white horse and unleash Armageddon?

Do you actually believe Noah was able to gather one male and female of every species, took them up onto an arc, while "God" sent a flood by purifying the planet of evil?

Do you actually believe the garden of Eden, and the devil converting himself into snake and making some chick eat an apple off a tree of good and evil, creating "sin?"

Do you actually believe there's a demon in the center of the earth named Satan that's trying to steal your soul from God?

Do you actually believe Jesus asked to be crucified for our sins?

Do you actually believe he returned from hell to tell only his disciples a bunch of prophecies and revelations that 2000 years later still haven't come true?


I'm just curious as to what being Christian is all about.

I've been to church, heard all these bullshit stories and revelations. Then when I challenge people on them, they tell me they're all metaphors and shit. Metaphors for what?

If a minister says Satan is trying to steal my soul, I'm assuming he actually think it's true.

__________________
"His professional diagnosis: Narcissistic Personality Disorder. My unprofessional diagnosis: Nut-Job!" - Jim Rome

"I don't have a girlfriend. But I know a woman who would be upset if she heard me say that." - Mitch Hedberg

"Condoms are stupid" - some dirty ho

Ego Tripping

Looks like NOS has a huge problem of recognizing the line between dogmatic Religion and true Spirituality.

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