Mescalito

Is it bad to force beliefs on your children? Is there such a thing as forcing beliefs on someone? Is it only possible through the other person accepting the belief.. and if so how much a part does the parent or the other person play in that..?

If nothing can be truely proven then does it matter what beliefs are enforced if any>?

Where would you draw the line with communicating beliefs? Does the communication of beliefs just occur through language? Is there such a thing as a belief with no language?


does the same apply for other peoples children?

...so many questions!?

M

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Jungle Monkey

SmokeSomeDoja

regarding religion, im not going to impose my beliefs on my children. hell, i dont even know where ill stand spiritual by that point. its on them

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"I've run over black cats that were luckier than me."

North_of_Sanity

I don't see anything wrong with teaching your kids ideals like "treat others as you wish to be treated" and shit like that.

But teaching kids about Jesus's spirit, Heaven and Hell is just fucking retarded if you ask me. I used to get that horseshit fed to me when I was a kid, and I fuckin' hate everyone who did it.

I fuckin' hate Christian beliefs.

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"Condoms are stupid" - some dirty ho

Mescalito

Do you think you could force the belief to your children that its ok to hate people for their stupid beliefs? If they never heard you say it verbally to them or anyone do you think they would pick up on it anyway?

M

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Jungle Monkey

North_of_Sanity

I wouldn't tell my kids upfront to hate people based on their beliefs.

But if my kid came to me crying because he's afraid of Satan and going to Hell if he doesn't go to church every Sunday and pray to his ceiling fan, then I'd tell him how brainwashed Christians are and how I don't him to associate with them anymore.

I wouldn't tell my kids to hate them, I'd just explain to them how bad people brainwashed them to get them to throw money into their collection plates.

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"His professional diagnosis: Narcissistic Personality Disorder. My unprofessional diagnosis: Nut-Job!" - Jim Rome

"I don't have a girlfriend. But I know a woman who would be upset if she heard me say that." - Mitch Hedberg

"Condoms are stupid" - some dirty ho

funky_unkle

If they're so stupid and brainwashed, why do you feel the need to exaggerate it so grossly? I fucking refuse to believe you can have met more than one or two persons who would actually say that. If I'm wrong though, I feel sorry for you and anyone else having to do with such people. And no wonder you left christianity if that's what you got served. Was it?

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A communist officer told a Christian he was beating, "I am almighty, as you suppose your God to be. I can kill you."
The Christian answered, "The power is all on my side. I can love you while you torture me to death."

kRad

agreed id rather reach the point of understanding and learning the word of freedom and love naturally though spiritual beliefs. Id direct them towards meditation and psychedelics. The views and beliefs people have today are totally unnatural and are not our own beliefs.

Mescalito

So do you think its possible for use to have beliefs that are not our own?

M

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Jungle Monkey

Mescalito

^I dont think the question was directed at me.. but im gonna answer it anyway..

Well im not a dad yet.. but i would seriously consider some sort of entheogenic initiation to make a distinct phase from childhood to adulthood. Now i wouldnt force it on them ever.. and only let them complete the ritual if i and they believe that they are suitably prepared as far as available knowledge on the suject goes... but then again knowing me i would reveal the information in a kind of magical/mysterious, curiousity grabbing way.

The drug of choice would be a san pedro extraction and i would do this with my child whatever so i can continue to pass on this wonderful knowledge as deemed by me to be. On the other hand though i would not direcgard the possibility of other plant compounds.

When i talked about drugs i will inform on a strictly individual drug basis.. most likely scrolling my way through all the drugs i know about and discussing them in a way in which i hope my children will discuss with me like.

I can see if the communication is not that great between the parents and their child(ren) or the trust.. then it may not be such a good idea to reveal the information untill these things are sorted out first.

M

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Jungle Monkey

Pitfall

yes, it's bad to FORCE your children to believe everything you believe in.

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Of contradictions infinite the slave. --Wordsworth.

Hedons

The original post made no mention of religion, yet many or the replies have read that into it.

Keeping clear of religious teachings, I make the following, more generalized statements:


Teaching beliefs promotes ignorance and blind following.

Teaching ideas promotes innovation and free thinking.


-Hedons

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Mescalito

So you distinguish between an idea as something fluid and always open to interpretation and a belief as something more solid which doesnt leave room for interpretation? I always thought of them both to be two words of one meaning.. i would include thoughts and theories under the same meaning too.

M

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Jungle Monkey

Hedons

To paraphrase here from the movie "Dogma"...


Forget the beliefs and stick to the ideas. You can change an idea. Changing a belief is trickier. Life should malleable and progressive; working from idea to idea permits that. Beliefs anchor you to certain points and limit growth; new ideas can't be generated.

-Hedons

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Mescalito

I see what you mean.. as we generally only accept beliefs if they fit into our other beliefs..

But how do you distinguish between beliefs you have about things and ideas? And at what point and under what conditions would an idea become a belief..?

M

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Jungle Monkey

Kompressor

All beliefs are ideas, but not all ideas are beliefs. Definitely two very different broad and vague terms with no real universal definitions...

It is impossible to 'force' a belief or an idea on anyone, as NoS is a prime example. People choose their core understandings based on faith, which tends to be more open-ended and uncertain than a belief.

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Think like a man of action, act like a man of thought. -H. Bergson

Pitfall

totally. i try and keep every belief open-ended. if i didn't do this, i highly doubt that i would have hundreds of pages of ideas written out. like maynard says... believe in nothing, worship everything.

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Of contradictions infinite the slave. --Wordsworth.

ziplock

i don't believe in enforcing ideas or beliefs. as far as raising a child will go, i'll attempt my best to prepare the kid for it's life and it's own discoveries and beliefs. teaching it to not accept any information given to it at face value, but dig deeper, ask questions, get in the habit of making a thought then adjusting it, not being afraid to admit their wrong, etc. pretty much arming it with many of the fundamental principals that'll then help them go on their own path. and of course, any questions they have i'll answer to the best of my ability and point them into different directions if they wish to expand their knowledge on it.

personally i feel enforcing your beliefs on someone, esp a child, is like giving them the introductory and concluding sentence of an essay. they know kind of what it's about, they know what its supposed to be like at the end, then they're left to blindly try to reach that end. this, i feel, just leads to hypocritical, contradictory and selective usage of ones beliefs, and if you were ask this individual why they feel how they feel, they have a good chance of answering "just because." or they don't have a very good understanding of what they claim to be their own beliefs. and "just because" never really ranked high on my "satisfying reasons" list.

Pointy

But simply growing up in a society is having ideas forced upon you. Your patterns of thought are 'forced' upon you through the lack of any other patterns around you to emulate. I'd rather influence my child's thinking than let the society he's surronded by shape him.