ziplock

hmmm....

so how did they place themselves in hell? wouldn't that have something to do with perception and thus interpretation of the fundamental energy that is still all one?

one thing i'd apply to this discussion is relativity, and configurations. now, everything is fundamentally the same as you put it with the star scenario. this is all made up of yes, energy. energy is in constant dynamic flow or change: "God is simply a mass of energy continously changing infinitely." now because "Even this keyboard was once a part of a Star which exploded and its remnants cooled and formed everything, including my Body." the only difference is in the configuration of these star remnants, or more fundamentally energy. my body represents a configuration of energy in the form of an energy system, or field. this is in constant exchange with the energy around me that comprises my environment. this is due to once again the configuration of my body, my mass, etc, that is the configuration of energy. this puts me in a relativistic frame of reference in which to view the universe from our scale. this configuration could be thought of as perhaps vibrational frequencies of energy.

now all this energy is relayed to the consciousness. the whole configuration is in constant energy exchange with the energy system of the consciousness. everything in existence is in constant energy exchange, or communication. now the frequency that the consciousness operates is influenced by numerous things, such as the very direct communication it has with the bodily/physical system. also the very direct communication of it's own conscious level of thought, the psychological make up of the person, the state of mind, the memories they have, sub/unconscious activies, etc. when the body communicates an experience to the consciousness it enters this dynamic field, going through all these different areas of the consciousness. this filters the communications through emotional dispositions and the like, leading to an interpretation of the phenomena, a judgement. this changes the fundamental energies, like light or waves propagating through a medium. the universe or physical reality is like an arena of energies that respond to the communications recieved. the density of those energies determines the degree of influence on the communications. for instance an atom has very little density, very little influence on the communications it recieves, such as the electromagnetic forces which bond them together. whereas an organism such as an animal has much more influence on what it recieves from its body, responding to different situations, etc. and we have a much larger influence, larger density of conscious energy, as we have a huge self awareness and free will. self awareness is where energy can be turned in on itself, introspection, "I think therefore I am" and this creates a self sustaining system, a soul.agreed, all these things are actions, all of them require energy. energy is a physical manifestation of a substance, of "God." the fundamental substance of all things, or the encompassing dynamic energy system of all of existence. physical and non. murder, disease, suffering, and hate are all our own manipulations, interpretations of communications. with our free will, self awareness, and bodily platform, we can accelerate these subjective concepts of "murder" "rape" and the like into physical manifestation, into action. this is an amazingly good thing as it's a moderator, if all our subjective experiences, such as thoughts, fantasies, etc, were immediately manifested we'd have a very large difficulty in integrating these communications with our own system. this results in of course psychological chaos. hallucinogenics accelerating the subjective experience into physical manifestation much easier, producing of course hallucinations, which is once again dictated by the consciousness.

when one loses their body, if this self aware system can maintain itself, which seems possible in this small thought experiment we're going on, they lose their relative frame in the universe. relativity of course dictates the contraction of dilation of space and time, or your experience of space and time. therefore, if one were simply energy with no bodily mass directly communicating with it, space and time would effectively be 0. everything would be an internal, connected moment, containing all of existance. this of course would be one amazing experience, extremely difficult to associate in physical terms. most likely communication would take on an visionary approach. a conscious god would be the all encompassing self aware energy dynamic that we're all a division, or independant experiencing part of.

so back to evil, evil is a concept created by the human consciousness in this experience. it's entire substance as i stated before is in the subjective arena, or in our minds. we then align this concept with physical phenomena, labelling that phenomena as evil we communicate our opinion of it to another. the physical phenomena is neutral, it gains it's "good" or "negative" aspects once it passes the subjective filter of human perception. actions that are taken on by humans are of course energy manipulated, or channeled into the purpose of accelerating the subjective imaginment, or reality of the "evil" act into physical existence. to do this they of course have to adhire to the our criteria for what's "evil." this criteria is based off of observed physical phenomena and what effects they have. think of conditioning, or localized ethics. how one tribe can see canabalism as one thing, and the european explorers can see it as another, due to their own ethical systems, which is based on right and wrong, which is pretty much synomomous with "good" and "evil" just not as subjectively charged.

love is integrating, its unifying. when someone "loves" doing something they enjoy the communication, the integration of that experience with their being. this can easily be an extremely beneficial, passionate relationship, or a dangerously passionate obsession. this of course is the same fundamental energies at play, but they're channelled through seperate mediums. a consciousness that operates on a frequency of compassion, that wishes to benefit and aid, that is compatible and many others things would be the one to manifest the beneficial relationship in cooperation. of course the one who would be dangerously obsessed would channel this through a different consciousness, one of ownership, dangerous attatchment with no moderation, etc, which would manifest a completely different physical behavior. all this of course is energy, energy in play, as it's all actions. time is then the perception of change from a certain relative state within this change. god is forever dynamic, forever changing. location is also based on this same perspective relativistic principle. our bodies give us temporary relative frames, which allow us to interact with energies in a more objective way, this teaches us a great deal of responsibility that comes from the power of the transbodily experience. this is why meditation, astral projection, lucid dreams, phasing and the like take conscious discipline and time. frequencies must be adjusted.

snapshot

ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh h

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We are all atheists about most of the gods that society has ever believed in. Some of us just go one god further.
-Richard Dawkins

SweetSativa

Hmmmm.... well, you are correct in one way... when viewing from a 'higher perspective. His soul chose the situations so that he may learn... to remember where he has fallen from. In this way, he has unconsciously chosen to be a victim to the world. HOWEVER, i do not feel that his core is the true source of the 'negativity'... but that it comes from the external... as above, so below... but this is a correlation/ not a cause and effect statement (imo). It is conditioned however, and reinforced externally... this belief... and it is most difficult for many to rise above ...which is why those who choose light, make it their mission to wake those who have fallen to their true selves... because we've ALL FALLEN ... how could we understand what it means to fall if we have not been down ourselves? We would stand as hypocrites and say that we understand when indeed there is no understanding. We could never say to another 'you are wrong, this is your choosing'... no, never. This was a 'first awakened' thought (at least for me) that is often interpreted as, "you deserve this, you have chosen this." That if I failed to effectively CONTROL every aspect of the world around me and within my path, I was responsible. And even though the mind may think that this is not call to discipline, we are taught that when we are doing something wrong, we FORCE correction or are punished for the incorrect action. When a child is abused, he does not deserve it. When a woman is raped, she does not deserve it. When children are starving and dying before they have a chance to live, and women and men are living with one thought only, how will they feed their children; they do not deserve it. It is this way because of an imbalance... because of greed. It is a lesson and perhaps it is selflessly chosen by those suffering as a lesson.? Although I am a baby with huge and bewildered eyes in this world, I observe those awakened in a couple of ways... those who wish freedom from God and those who wish freedom IN God. None is 'right' or 'wrong'... they are simply different paths.

"I have this theory that if we're told we're bad, then that's the only idea we'll ever have. But MAYBE IF WE ARE SURROUNDED IN BEAUTY, SOMEDAY WE WILL BECOME WHAT WE SEE. Please be careful with me, I'm sensitive and I'd like to stay that way."

If everyone was on his own path, and I had nothing to do with anyone's path but my own (physically speaking, not talking about spiritual teaching in a religious way ... in that way, each must find his own)... then I would have no reason to try to help anyone but myself. This is not the path that I choose or that has chosen me. Anything that I can give to the world... is my only reason for being here at this point. Not so much worried about 'fighting evil' as 'promoting love'.

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"Why is it that when people talk to God, we call it praying but when God talks to people, we call it crazy?"- Touched by an Angel
http://www.youtube.com/user/immelody.../0/DDRj93dQ0O0

ziplock

If we keep from meddling with people, they take care of themselves.

If we keep from commanding people, they behave themselves.

If we keep from preaching at people, they improve themselves.

If we keep from imposing on people, they become themselves.

The way is like an invisible hand, a spirit guide that leads without interfering.

Here is the way: set people free.

- Lao Tzu

SweetSativa

^Nice... I've had a difficult time, semantically lately. ... but you know, "Unstable condition.. a symptom of life..."

=
and when I say, "choose to wake those..." (should have used different terminology)... I should have said that love is contageous and actions are all that matter. Words can call forth action but unless backed by action hold no importance. Noone can wake another person.... but the spirit can... and spirit comes through us.

__________________
"Why is it that when people talk to God, we call it praying but when God talks to people, we call it crazy?"- Touched by an Angel
http://www.youtube.com/user/immelody.../0/DDRj93dQ0O0

ziplock

semantics can always be such a pain gotta be really careful with the words you use as to avoid miscommunication and misunderstanding. i think it's really important to keep a relaxed, open sort of atmosphere for a discussion. so anyone can freely express opinions or ideas and everyone recognizes them as such, sort of like mental images. from there we all assess it, observe it like a tree, and then give our best description of it. some metaphorically beautiful, some scientifically drawn out, depending on the expression of the individual recognizing words as symbols with no innate meaning, only the meaning we place to them, allowing us to focus more on the understanding than the method. the action as you put it

anyways! love is contagious it started me thinking about inner power, and light... now inner power to me would be personified in such a person as ghandi, or jesus, or buddha, or lao tzu, or martin luther king, or a number of people throughout history. this is a power that doesnt depend on the body, or on weapons, or any sort of physical strength, but an inner dedication, an inner commitment and conviction, an inner power and strength. it comes with a deep individual integrity as well. no amount of weapons, no measure of strength would be able to waver, or even effect, that inner power they had in them. yet they could threaten the most powerful military and political organisations of the time. one person. this is why it brings me to light... light can never be threatened by the darkness, but the darkness will always be threatened by the light.

the person also effects those around them. they help people to recognize that they too have inner power, it's innate with being an individual, we just have to see it, learn to harness it. this threatens any establishment that relies on the blind following of it's people, or that hides it's intents behind charismatic figureheads and teams of speechwriters. it spreads like fire. it fans everyones inner spark until it burns down the seperations caused by body, physical location, appearance, unites people under one cause. all those people previously mentioned had a great following, not because they wanted it, because it's the common effect of the common cause, and those people went on to spur them on forward further. adding to their conviction, many people's inner integrity united, instead of 1 standing alone. that's a lot of power tho, a lot of responsibility.

Ego Tripping

The statement 'All you need is Love' means a whole lot more to me now than it did before.

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