Where is God's Perfection? - Page 2

Sugar420 · 07-27-2005, 10:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by v3d4

i think we can all take what we want from the story, but if someone wants to take fuel for their outrage and conviction in unfairness and glass-half-emptiness, then i think they're gonna get the very dissatisfaction they demand

from Snopes (care of JahBohl):

Quote:

The true value of any inspirational tale lies not in its veracity (or lack thereof) but in its ability to move those who read it to improve some facet of themselves.

alright well i knew/admitted from the beginning its shameless glurge, and wether its true or not doesnt really matter. the point of it is for you to take what you can from it to improve some facet of yourself.
what ever you think the message is, thats totally up to you.
v3d4 is not going to interpret it for you, or try to spoon feed you any "lesson"

but i would suggest that if you see that story delivers a harmfull message, if you get out of it something that just rubs you the wrong way, if it seems like its saying that you have to gush enthusiastically about disease and misfortune being God's wonderful miracles even when you kno that fucked up shit is really fucked up, and if your only conclusion is that stupid fucking people are fucking stupid, then maybe theres another way you can look at that story, and our discussion about it.

but then i could post the story of the tortoise and the hare, and it would not surprise me in the least to get told "that story is fucking bullshit, it never happened and obviously a hare is faster than a tortoise and you shouldnt go around making turtles think they can win against rabbits, youre just setting them up for failure"

ziplock · 07-27-2005, 10:04 AM

it's pretty hard not to tell that being handicap sucks. anyone can really see that, the thing is a lot of the time they're nicely tucked away in their own room, on their own bus, in their own seperated classes, etc, pretty much out of public sight. a lot of the time when, publically, people see one, they approach it with humour and amusement, instead of addressing the gravity of their disability. most people avoid just as you say, but in a more demeaning way then a divine plan, or divine message. we set up a whole system around these individuals of seperation, social alienation and rejection. it's fuckin brutal. anyone can see that...

so one day, one day out of 365 days in a year, one day this kid makes the bridge between his small social world and the one that he sees everyday but can never really touch. how do we react? we see it as making "everything alright by letting the kid win a meaningless game due to pity." as opposed to what? what ELSE do we let this kid do? watch from the sidelines all their lives? never touch that reality? how is that better then winning the game? of connecting? of making contact?

we acknowledge that these people have a shitty life, great. but what look how we react. at least this father learned that hey, maybe there's something there. yes, he saw it through his own christian context, but if u can look past this the substance is very powerful and moving.

Quote:

What to make of an incitement to bestow upon the disabled to a pat on the head instead of granting them acceptance for who they are, even when that means accepting the limitations placed upon them by their infirmities? Has a disabled child who has been conditioned to believe he's good at baseball somehow been helped, or has he been set up for a greater hurt when he comes to realize he's been made the object of pity and an accomplishment he'd been praising himself for was just a sham?

i love the context this individual takes this whole thing in. what a beautiful way to view life. equating allowing another individual, as disabled as they may be, to participate in a social, group activity to a simple pat on the head? like we're simply bringing a dog into the game and putting it on hold for a bit? and then they start talking about someone being conditioned to believe they're good at baseball? FROM THIS ONE TIME!? it's not like we're going "hey, Shaya, take this bat and go hit a grandslam, it's the bottom of the 9th in the world series." he's not playing professionally! he's not even playing regularily. he's reminded EVERYWHERE he goes that he's different, of peoples reactions to him, so when they wish to go into a game we should REMIND them further of that fact? yeah, lets REALLY drive that nail home.

sorry for my reaction, i'm stoned and this is an emotional topic. i need to chill and reapproach it. spent a lot of time around the mentally handicap at school, had a friend of the family who worked with them, etc... it's really depressing.

kRad · 07-27-2005, 05:47 PM

Who's to say all the people born today with problems where given to them by god or whatever you wanna call it.

What if since our society came up with mass production of food, adding so many chemicals to our food and so many pollution in our air that today's people with problems only stem back to when humans created all of these problem. Our food today has so many addatives that really we dont know the long terms of these things and since they started to add them everyone born has been effected only to cause all our mental problem, physical problems or whatever we have today.

snapshot · 07-27-2005, 05:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Waves

you can say their perfectly whatever the hell you want but they know they are "retarded". They just dont know why and could never understand the concept of God.

If they can't understand the concept of God, then what the hell do they care about what God has to say?

funky_unkle · 07-28-2005, 03:29 AM

Is there anyone at all who can "understand the concept of God"?
But I think everyone can have love.

Waves · 07-28-2005, 06:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by snapshot182

If they can't understand the concept of God, then what the hell do they care about what God has to say?

They dont. Thats the whole point. They are told they are part of "Gods Plan" or whatever, but of course they dont understand all that like we do, so they go through life feeling alienated.

ziplock · 07-28-2005, 08:12 AM

so if we told them "you're no ones plan. you're a fuck up. your parents obviously didn't want something like you." they'd feel more a part of society?

Waves · 07-28-2005, 09:24 AM

No, if we told them that they had a defection in the brain and there was nothing they could do about it they cope. My adopted sister has a brain defect, and I've been around disabled people plenty. Its the same deal as say, a guy who lost his legs. You just have to cope. They can understand the concept of "Your brain is different" but when you tell them about god you might as well be reading them harry potter.

All they really want to do is live. They talk to each other, play with each other just like normal kids. Its all about dealing with the problem and telling them the truth as opposed to telling a whole congregation this story.

ziplock · 07-28-2005, 09:26 AM

exactly, and that's what this story is about. living, talking to other people, contacting other people, play with eachother like normal kids. what restricts people like Shaya from doing that is OUR perception of them, our perception of letting them take part in these things as "pity." this father knows that now, through his own context of course.

snapshot · 07-28-2005, 11:20 AM

I bet if we just talked to them and didn't give them bullshit then they wouldn't feel alienated. But fuck that, I don't feel like trying to connect with retards and neither do any of you so let's all shut up about it.

funky_unkle · 07-28-2005, 01:10 PM

Nobody needs to "understand" God, but we all need to be loved.

snapshot · 07-28-2005, 01:27 PM

What we need to understand though is, that the cost of knowledge and debating is the loss of virtue.

Instead of going out and helping the retards understand, the obvious solution evades us because we were too stupid to shut up and act. We're not doing anything about helping retards on this forum.

This forum is for making fun of retards. Help retards on your own damn time because here, we suck at it!

ziplock · 07-28-2005, 01:40 PM

lol haha

07-28-2005, 03:29 AM	#25 (permalink)
funky_unkle free Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: ) Posts: 1,736 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	Is there anyone at all who can "understand the concept of God"? But I think everyone can have love. __________________ A communist officer told a Christian he was beating, "I am almighty, as you suppose your God to be. I can kill you." The Christian answered, "The power is all on my side. I can love you while you torture me to death."

07-28-2005, 09:26 AM	#29 (permalink)
ziplock Dreamer of the dreams Join Date: May 2004 Location: British Columbia Posts: 2,110 Thanks: 15 Thanked 91 Times in 71 Posts	exactly, and that's what this story is about. living, talking to other people, contacting other people, play with eachother like normal kids. what restricts people like Shaya from doing that is OUR perception of them, our perception of letting them take part in these things as "pity." this father knows that now, through his own context of course. __________________ Insanity is the only sane reaction to an insane society.

07-28-2005, 11:20 AM	#30 (permalink)
snapshot no custom. customize Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: The unOriginal Rorschach. Posts: 19,302 Thanks: 15 Thanked 22 Times in 21 Posts	I bet if we just talked to them and didn't give them bullshit then they wouldn't feel alienated. But fuck that, I don't feel like trying to connect with retards and neither do any of you so let's all shut up about it. __________________ We are all atheists about most of the gods that society has ever believed in. Some of us just go one god further. -Richard Dawkins

07-28-2005, 01:10 PM	#31 (permalink)
funky_unkle free Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: ) Posts: 1,736 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	Nobody needs to "understand" God, but we all need to be loved. __________________ A communist officer told a Christian he was beating, "I am almighty, as you suppose your God to be. I can kill you." The Christian answered, "The power is all on my side. I can love you while you torture me to death."

07-28-2005, 01:27 PM	#32 (permalink)
snapshot no custom. customize Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: The unOriginal Rorschach. Posts: 19,302 Thanks: 15 Thanked 22 Times in 21 Posts	What we need to understand though is, that the cost of knowledge and debating is the loss of virtue. Instead of going out and helping the retards understand, the obvious solution evades us because we were too stupid to shut up and act. We're not doing anything about helping retards on this forum. This forum is for making fun of retards. Help retards on your own damn time because here, we suck at it! __________________ We are all atheists about most of the gods that society has ever believed in. Some of us just go one god further. -Richard Dawkins

07-27-2005, 05:47 PM	#23 (permalink)
kRad Infinity Join Date: Aug 2004 Posts: 484 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post	Who's to say all the people born today with problems where given to them by god or whatever you wanna call it. What if since our society came up with mass production of food, adding so many chemicals to our food and so many pollution in our air that today's people with problems only stem back to when humans created all of these problem. Our food today has so many addatives that really we dont know the long terms of these things and since they started to add them everyone born has been effected only to cause all our mental problem, physical problems or whatever we have today.

07-28-2005, 08:12 AM	#27 (permalink)
ziplock Dreamer of the dreams Join Date: May 2004 Location: British Columbia Posts: 2,110 Thanks: 15 Thanked 91 Times in 71 Posts	so if we told them "you're no ones plan. you're a fuck up. your parents obviously didn't want something like you." they'd feel more a part of society?

07-28-2005, 09:24 AM	#28 (permalink)
Waves Duderino Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: chiburbs Posts: 15,405 Thanks: 991 Thanked 4,036 Times in 2,224 Posts	No, if we told them that they had a defection in the brain and there was nothing they could do about it they cope. My adopted sister has a brain defect, and I've been around disabled people plenty. Its the same deal as say, a guy who lost his legs. You just have to cope. They can understand the concept of "Your brain is different" but when you tell them about god you might as well be reading them harry potter. All they really want to do is live. They talk to each other, play with each other just like normal kids. Its all about dealing with the problem and telling them the truth as opposed to telling a whole congregation this story.

07-28-2005, 01:40 PM	#33 (permalink)
ziplock Dreamer of the dreams Join Date: May 2004 Location: British Columbia Posts: 2,110 Thanks: 15 Thanked 91 Times in 71 Posts	lol haha __________________ Insanity is the only sane reaction to an insane society.

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