Where is God's Perfection?

Sugar420 · 07-26-2005, 09:46 AM

Where is God's Perfection?

In Brooklyn, New York, Chush is a school that caters to learning disabled children. Some children remain in Chush for their entire school career, while others can be mainstreamed into conventional schools.

At a Chush fund-raising dinner, the father of a Chush child delivered a speech that would never be forgotten by all who attended. After extolling the school and its dedicated staff, he cried out, "Where is the perfection in my son Shaya? Everything God does is done with perfection. But my child cannot understand things as other children do. My child cannot remember facts and figures as other children do. Where is God's perfection?"

The audience was shocked by the question, pained by the father's anguish and stilled by the piercing query. " I believe," the father answered, "that when God brings a child like this into the world, the perfection that he seeks is in the way people react to this child." He then told the following story about his son Shaya.

One afternoon Shaya and his father walked past a park where some boys Shaya knew were playing baseball. Shaya asked, "Do you think they will let me play?" Shay's father knew that his son was not at all athletic and that most boys would not want him on their team. But Shaya's father understood that if his son was chosen to play it would give him a comfortable sense of belonging. Shaya's father approached one of the boys in the field and asked if Shaya could play. The boy looked around for guidance from his team-mates. Getting none, he took matters into his own hands and said "We are losing by six runs and the game is in the eighth inning. I guess he can be on our team and we'll try to put him up to bat in the ninth inning."

Shaya's father was ecstatic as Shaya smiled broadly. Shaya was told to put on a glove and go out to play short center field. In the bottom of the eighth inning, Shaya's team scored a few runs but has still behind by three. In the bottom of the ninth inning, Shaya's team scored again and now with two outs and the bases loaded with the potential winning run on base, Shaya was scheduled to be up. Would the team actually let Shaya bat at this juncture and give away their chance to win the game?

Surprisingly, Shaya was given the bat. Everyone knew that it was all but impossible because Shaya didn't even know how to hold the bat properly, let alone hit with it. However as Shaya stepped up to the plate, the pitcher moved a few steps to lob the ball in softly so Shaya should at least be able to make contact.

The first pitch came in and Shaya swung clumsily and missed. One of Shaya's team-mates came up to Shaya and together they held the bat and faced the pitcher waiting for the next pitch. The pitcher again took a few steps forward to toss the ball softly toward Shaya. As the pitch came in, Shaya and his team-mate swung at the bat and together they hit a slow ground ball to the pitcher. The pitcher picked up the soft grounder and could easily have thrown the ball to the first baseman. Shaya would have been out and that would have ended the game.

Instead, the pitcher took the ball and threw it on a high arc to right field, far beyond reach of the first baseman. Everyone started yelling, "Shaya, run to first. Run to first." Never in his life had Shaya run to first. He scampered down the baseline wide-eyed and startled. By the time he reached first base, the right fielder had the ball. He could have thrown the ball to the second baseman who would tag out Shaya, who was still running. But the right fielder understood what the pitcher's intentions were, so he threw the ball high and far over the third baseman's head. Everyone yelled, "Run to second, run to second."

Shaya ran towards second base as the runners ahead of him deliriously circled the bases towards home. As Shaya reached second base, the opposing short stop ran to him, turned him in the direction of third base and shouted, "Run to third." As Shaya rounded third, the boys from both teams ran behind him screaming, "Shaya run home." Shaya ran home, stepped on home plate and all 18 boys lifted him on their shoulders and made him the hero, as he had just hit a "grand slam" and won the game for his team.

"That day," said the father softly with tears now rolling down his face, "those 18 boys reached their level of God's perfection."

http://barbmiles.tripod.com/Where_is...rfection_.html

allright, i know its glurgy but i cant help it, when i read that a couple tears popped out

ziplock · 07-26-2005, 10:08 AM

wow

that father did have one amazing speech, what a great way to start it too. really makes u think about how we treat people, and in turn how we treat ourselves... thanks for sharing

awesome post, got a lot to think on now. next joints for the father, whoever he is.

ps. few tears here too

generic_hippie · 07-26-2005, 10:16 AM

nice v3d4

no tears though, dry cynical old bastard I am

Waves · 07-26-2005, 10:53 AM

Good story

My one complaint is this:

Quote:

" I believe," the father answered, "that when God brings a child like this into the world, the perfection that he seeks is in the way people react to this child."

so god created a whole seperate human who has to go through life feeling stupid, alienated, and different for the sole purpose of giving others joy through being humble? im sorry, but if anything else that adds to my pessimistic view of christianity. sorry.

but still, a great story.

JahBohl · 07-26-2005, 11:18 AM

God gives this guy a retarded kid....but then makes everything alright by letting the kid win a meaningless game due to pity.......that's perfect, thanks God.

ziplock · 07-26-2005, 11:48 AM

those are all ways of looking at it....

it's perspective, and that's what i think this article demonstrates amazingly well. everyone views a handicap individual as a burden, a bane on society, a money pit. they play right into their percieved judgements of the persons (dis)ability to do certain things. doesn't God (through Jesus) say love all men? accept all men? didn't someone just post an extremely long article wherein they spoke of how islam or something to the like viewed handicap people as closer to Allah? wouldn't then placing these people on here be a simple following of what is trying to be taught? seeking a social change, a social perfection, accepting of all men? to teach appreciation of what you have and respect for another's perspective? the child himself, shaya, obviously was intellectually capable enough to understand social rejection, to want to play and bound with other children. these kids gave him that choice, i think that's a step in the direction that man was talking about.

after all, god apparently made a man to be humiliated, betrayed, tortured in a most horrific way, all for the benefit of other people.

Ego Tripping · 07-26-2005, 12:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Waves

Good story

My one complaint is this:

so god created a whole seperate human who has to go through life feeling stupid, alienated, and different for the sole purpose of giving others joy through being humble? im sorry, but if anything else that adds to my pessimistic view of christianity. sorry.

but still, a great story.

Or the Child placed themself there.

The child only feels alienated because of humans actions, not God. Your view of Christianity isn't pessimistic, just misconstrued/misunderstood as most of them are.

Ego Tripping · 07-26-2005, 12:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JahBohl

God gives this guy a retarded kid....but then makes everything alright by letting the kid win a meaningless game due to pity.......that's perfect, thanks God.

What has meaning as compared to your classification of this game being 'meaningless'?

And you're welcome.

Waves · 07-26-2005, 12:41 PM

Yes but god has a plan right? arent human actions considered into that plan? or is it NOT a plan and more of a rough draft?

I do agree with you in that the child put himself there. But theres a huge difference in believing that some sick demented step-father in the sky put him here for us to learn some amazing hippy lesson and believing that he chose to put himself here to explore his current state.

Sugar420 · 07-26-2005, 12:57 PM

whats the huge difference?

i think we can all take what we want from the story, but if someone wants to take fuel for their outrage and conviction in unfairness and glass-half-emptiness, then i think they're gonna get the very dissatisfaction they demand

haha "amazing hippy lesson" lol

Ego Tripping · 07-26-2005, 01:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Waves

Yes but god has a plan right? arent human actions considered into that plan? or is it NOT a plan and more of a rough draft?

Got two words for you. Starts with Free. Ends with Will.

Maybe God knew Humans would be cruel (if he is All then yeah, it was known). How is that "his" fault, though?

Quote:

I do agree with you in that the child put himself there. But theres a huge difference in believing that some sick demented step-father in the sky put him here for us to learn some amazing hippy lesson and believing that he chose to put himself here to explore his current state.

How do you know that isn't exactly whats happening?

snapshot · 07-26-2005, 01:32 PM

God gives this kid perfection in his ignorance and ability to teach others, which are bliss.

Waves · 07-26-2005, 03:16 PM

No, "retarded" kids know they are retarded. They know they are different. Imagine having that knowledge, then being told that you are all a part of Gods glorious plan not to reach self-perfection, but as a way of letting others reach perfection. Sorta condascending isnt it? Of course they dont know that, and we're lucky they dont.

Quote:

How do you know that isn't exactly whats happening?

Because there is no old man in the sky relishing in peoples despair. Its personal choice, and to put power, responsibility, or blame on a "God" is throwing the problem to the wind as far as I'm concerned. Yes these people are disabled for a reason but its not so a bunch of 12 year old kids can reach "Gods perfection".

snapshot · 07-26-2005, 03:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by waves

Of course they dont know that, and we're lucky they dont.

Like I said, that they are "perfectly" ignorant. And when I use it that way, I can only be right, because I'm not judging the "perfection."

Quote:

Originally Posted by waves

Because there is no old man in the sky relishing in peoples despair.

That's an antiquated perception of God, especially with the latest findings in science.

The computer acronym GIGO comes to mind.

"This is an outgoing message only. Please do not reply."

bongload · 07-26-2005, 04:03 PM

The feel good story of the year.. 2 thumbs way up

Waves · 07-27-2005, 06:37 AM

you can say their perfectly whatever the hell you want but they know they are "retarded". They just dont know why and could never understand the concept of God.

JahBohl · 07-27-2005, 07:54 AM

From Snopes:

Quote:

The true value of any inspirational tale lies not in its veracity (or lack thereof) but in its ability to move those who read it to improve some facet of themselves. As with many other glurges, we find this story's premise a poor one, and its message one likely to do more harm than good.

What to make of an incitement to bestow upon the disabled to a pat on the head instead of granting them acceptance for who they are, even when that means accepting the limitations placed upon them by their infirmities? Has a disabled child who has been conditioned to believe he's good at baseball somehow been helped, or has he been set up for a greater hurt when he comes to realize he's been made the object of pity and an accomplishment he'd been praising himself for was just a sham?

Not everyone reacts well to having the rules of life changed on them in mid-game, so to speak. An experience from my sister's pre-school days might help illustrate this point.

As was my sister's wont, some mornings she would toddle after our brother when he headed off to school. She was always greeted warmly by the teacher and set down with crayons and paper to draw pictures (a ruse to keep her quiet) while the rest of the children went on with their lessons. When she proudly presented her drawings to the teacher, they never failed to earn gold stars, sometimes even rows of them! (According to our brother, she was never shy about demanding more stars. Loudly.) Her interruptions and demands were always immediately addressed, and the class learned to regard her as a lovable, if annoying, mascot who showed up every now and then but mercifully never stayed long. ("But always too long," our mortified brother would report.) When she tired of scribbling, singing, and cavorting, my dear sis would toddle back home, secure in the knowledge that this mysterious "school" thing was all sorts of fun, and it would be even more fun when she was grown up enough to be part of it officially.

That view changed on her very first day as a real student. Riding on the bus was fun, but nobody acted all that delighted to see her when she got to school. Worse, there were no gold stars for anything she did. When she piped up to sing a song, the teacher actually shushed her. She was told to stay in her seat instead of running around the room as she usually did. When she demanded crayons, she was told it was time to do lessons and that in future she had to put her hand up when she wanted something instead of just screaming it out. Confused and fed up, she tried to leave, but the teacher sat her back down! She was then told she couldn't leave, that she had to stay there for the whole day. Worse, she was told that if she didn't behave, she'd be taken to the principal. (She wasn't exactly sure what that was, but it sounded impressively ominous.)

That confused little girl grew up to be a young lady who dropped out of school in eighth grade. She never got over the idea that teachers lived to pick on her and that all these rules they came up with served no purpose other than to make her life miserable. Possibly a different beginning might have led to a different outcome: a brilliant, creative girl going on to complete high school and maybe even university. Maybe. But we'll never know because these other what-might-have-beens were killed with kindness before they even had their chance.

As amusing a story as my sister's experience may be, the pain she experienced was real. What that child went through shouldn't be visited upon another, especially upon one already burdened with limitations. Kindness is all well and good, but not when the expression of it sets up the recipient for greater harm later. The less abled don't require our pity -- they want acceptance, to be seen as viable and valuable members of the world. Lying down for them doesn't accomplish this; it just reinforces the belief they can't succeed on their own.

Can a disabled child hit a baseball as well as a perfectly-abled one? No. But can that same child learn to work within his disabilities to the point of achieving real accomplishments he can take honest pride in? Absolutely. And that beats all the pity-driven home runs in the world.

Barbara "killed with kindness" Mikkelson

The Rev · 07-27-2005, 09:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Waves

Good story

My one complaint is this:

so god created a whole seperate human who has to go through life feeling stupid, alienated, and different for the sole purpose of giving others joy through being humble? im sorry, but if anything else that adds to my pessimistic view of christianity. sorry.

but still, a great story.

I have to go with Waves here. I think if God is in the business of creating people as tools, with their only purpose being the benefit of others (even their moral benefit) then I don't think I like Him very much.

The Rev

The Rev · 07-27-2005, 09:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Waves

you can say their perfectly whatever the hell you want but they know they are "retarded". They just dont know why and could never understand the concept of God.

I think we go too far out of our way to dress up tragedy in the clothes of the divine. The fact that a child is born with retardation sucks, plain and simple. People of average intellect have trouble getting along in this world. To be retarded pretty much relegates you to dependence on others for your entire life (unless the condition is particularly mild). To make it into some part of God's plan is just avoidance, IMO.

I don't know if this happened everywhere, but for awhile, I would see handicapped spaces with the Wheelchair Guy Logo, like normal, but with a halo painted over his head, like being crippled made him special in God's eyes or something. Really, if being crippled were that great, we wouldn't be looking for cures as vigorously as we are.

If something sucks, let's acknowledge that. I think the alternative is alot of people wondering why everyone is tapdancing around them, then realizing that it's because they're crippled, but no one wants to acknowledge how awful it feels. I think euphemism backfires like this alot more than PC folks like to admit.

Just my 2¢

The Rev

Waves · 07-27-2005, 09:18 AM

Preach rev, Preach.

07-26-2005, 09:46 AM	#1 (permalink)
Sugar420 Freedom Bird Join Date: Mar 2002 Posts: 6,132 Thanks: 39 Thanked 176 Times in 728 Posts	Where is God's Perfection? Where is God's Perfection? In Brooklyn, New York, Chush is a school that caters to learning disabled children. Some children remain in Chush for their entire school career, while others can be mainstreamed into conventional schools. At a Chush fund-raising dinner, the father of a Chush child delivered a speech that would never be forgotten by all who attended. After extolling the school and its dedicated staff, he cried out, "Where is the perfection in my son Shaya? Everything God does is done with perfection. But my child cannot understand things as other children do. My child cannot remember facts and figures as other children do. Where is God's perfection?" The audience was shocked by the question, pained by the father's anguish and stilled by the piercing query. " I believe," the father answered, "that when God brings a child like this into the world, the perfection that he seeks is in the way people react to this child." He then told the following story about his son Shaya. One afternoon Shaya and his father walked past a park where some boys Shaya knew were playing baseball. Shaya asked, "Do you think they will let me play?" Shay's father knew that his son was not at all athletic and that most boys would not want him on their team. But Shaya's father understood that if his son was chosen to play it would give him a comfortable sense of belonging. Shaya's father approached one of the boys in the field and asked if Shaya could play. The boy looked around for guidance from his team-mates. Getting none, he took matters into his own hands and said "We are losing by six runs and the game is in the eighth inning. I guess he can be on our team and we'll try to put him up to bat in the ninth inning." Shaya's father was ecstatic as Shaya smiled broadly. Shaya was told to put on a glove and go out to play short center field. In the bottom of the eighth inning, Shaya's team scored a few runs but has still behind by three. In the bottom of the ninth inning, Shaya's team scored again and now with two outs and the bases loaded with the potential winning run on base, Shaya was scheduled to be up. Would the team actually let Shaya bat at this juncture and give away their chance to win the game? Surprisingly, Shaya was given the bat. Everyone knew that it was all but impossible because Shaya didn't even know how to hold the bat properly, let alone hit with it. However as Shaya stepped up to the plate, the pitcher moved a few steps to lob the ball in softly so Shaya should at least be able to make contact. The first pitch came in and Shaya swung clumsily and missed. One of Shaya's team-mates came up to Shaya and together they held the bat and faced the pitcher waiting for the next pitch. The pitcher again took a few steps forward to toss the ball softly toward Shaya. As the pitch came in, Shaya and his team-mate swung at the bat and together they hit a slow ground ball to the pitcher. The pitcher picked up the soft grounder and could easily have thrown the ball to the first baseman. Shaya would have been out and that would have ended the game. Instead, the pitcher took the ball and threw it on a high arc to right field, far beyond reach of the first baseman. Everyone started yelling, "Shaya, run to first. Run to first." Never in his life had Shaya run to first. He scampered down the baseline wide-eyed and startled. By the time he reached first base, the right fielder had the ball. He could have thrown the ball to the second baseman who would tag out Shaya, who was still running. But the right fielder understood what the pitcher's intentions were, so he threw the ball high and far over the third baseman's head. Everyone yelled, "Run to second, run to second." Shaya ran towards second base as the runners ahead of him deliriously circled the bases towards home. As Shaya reached second base, the opposing short stop ran to him, turned him in the direction of third base and shouted, "Run to third." As Shaya rounded third, the boys from both teams ran behind him screaming, "Shaya run home." Shaya ran home, stepped on home plate and all 18 boys lifted him on their shoulders and made him the hero, as he had just hit a "grand slam" and won the game for his team. "That day," said the father softly with tears now rolling down his face, "those 18 boys reached their level of God's perfection." http://barbmiles.tripod.com/Where_is...rfection_.html allright, i know its glurgy but i cant help it, when i read that a couple tears popped out

07-26-2005, 10:16 AM	#3 (permalink)
generic_hippie question authority Join Date: May 2003 Location: 20 km's from Nimbin, Australia Posts: 3,972 Thanks: 121 Thanked 277 Times in 173 Posts	nice v3d4 no tears though, dry cynical old bastard I am __________________ Love is my favourite DRUG...

07-26-2005, 11:18 AM	#5 (permalink)
JahBohl Duppy Conqueror Join Date: May 2005 Location: "on the grass" Posts: 823 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	God gives this guy a retarded kid....but then makes everything alright by letting the kid win a meaningless game due to pity.......that's perfect, thanks God. __________________ "If you know what life is worth, then you would look for yours right here on Earth" ~Peter Tosh I'm in favor of it as long as it's multiple choice. ~Kurt Rambis, on drug testing

07-26-2005, 01:32 PM	#12 (permalink)
snapshot no custom. customize Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: The unOriginal Rorschach. Posts: 19,302 Thanks: 15 Thanked 22 Times in 21 Posts	God gives this kid perfection in his ignorance and ability to teach others, which are bliss. __________________ We are all atheists about most of the gods that society has ever believed in. Some of us just go one god further. -Richard Dawkins

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07-26-2005, 10:08 AM	#2 (permalink)
ziplock Dreamer of the dreams Join Date: May 2004 Location: British Columbia Posts: 2,110 Thanks: 15 Thanked 91 Times in 71 Posts	wow that father did have one amazing speech, what a great way to start it too. really makes u think about how we treat people, and in turn how we treat ourselves... thanks for sharing awesome post, got a lot to think on now. next joints for the father, whoever he is. ps. few tears here too

07-26-2005, 11:48 AM	#6 (permalink)
ziplock Dreamer of the dreams Join Date: May 2004 Location: British Columbia Posts: 2,110 Thanks: 15 Thanked 91 Times in 71 Posts	those are all ways of looking at it.... it's perspective, and that's what i think this article demonstrates amazingly well. everyone views a handicap individual as a burden, a bane on society, a money pit. they play right into their percieved judgements of the persons (dis)ability to do certain things. doesn't God (through Jesus) say love all men? accept all men? didn't someone just post an extremely long article wherein they spoke of how islam or something to the like viewed handicap people as closer to Allah? wouldn't then placing these people on here be a simple following of what is trying to be taught? seeking a social change, a social perfection, accepting of all men? to teach appreciation of what you have and respect for another's perspective? the child himself, shaya, obviously was intellectually capable enough to understand social rejection, to want to play and bound with other children. these kids gave him that choice, i think that's a step in the direction that man was talking about. after all, god apparently made a man to be humiliated, betrayed, tortured in a most horrific way, all for the benefit of other people.

07-26-2005, 12:41 PM	#9 (permalink)
Waves Duderino Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: chiburbs Posts: 15,405 Thanks: 991 Thanked 4,036 Times in 2,224 Posts	Yes but god has a plan right? arent human actions considered into that plan? or is it NOT a plan and more of a rough draft? I do agree with you in that the child put himself there. But theres a huge difference in believing that some sick demented step-father in the sky put him here for us to learn some amazing hippy lesson and believing that he chose to put himself here to explore his current state.

07-26-2005, 12:57 PM	#10 (permalink)
Sugar420 Freedom Bird Join Date: Mar 2002 Posts: 6,132 Thanks: 39 Thanked 176 Times in 728 Posts	whats the huge difference? i think we can all take what we want from the story, but if someone wants to take fuel for their outrage and conviction in unfairness and glass-half-emptiness, then i think they're gonna get the very dissatisfaction they demand haha "amazing hippy lesson" lol

07-26-2005, 04:03 PM	#15 (permalink)
bongload ^ it's an acronym Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Ontario Posts: 4,705 Thanks: 0 Thanked 2 Times in 2 Posts	The feel good story of the year.. 2 thumbs way up

07-27-2005, 06:37 AM	#16 (permalink)
Waves Duderino Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: chiburbs Posts: 15,405 Thanks: 991 Thanked 4,036 Times in 2,224 Posts	you can say their perfectly whatever the hell you want but they know they are "retarded". They just dont know why and could never understand the concept of God.

07-27-2005, 09:18 AM	#20 (permalink)
Waves Duderino Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: chiburbs Posts: 15,405 Thanks: 991 Thanked 4,036 Times in 2,224 Posts	Preach rev, Preach.

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