ziplock

how do you suppose we stop believing there is any problem?

__________________
Insanity is the only sane reaction to an insane society.

funky_unkle

Jesus didn't snap his fingers and turn the world into a better place. He left that to us. You may think it's foolish, but I think there's a lot of trust in that. He believes in us. He said, "feed the hungry. Be good even to your enemies."

I don't understand why an almighty God lets all kinds of crap happen, but I can't blame him as long as I'm an asshole myself. I can't walk past a hungry person and accuse God - the guy is hungry because nobody fed him.

I used to long for justice. But then I realized that if justice was to come, I would surely burn. In addition to that, I've been given grace for my own assholishness, so I can't really judge anyone else.

But yeah, there are still a lot of whys.

__________________
A communist officer told a Christian he was beating, "I am almighty, as you suppose your God to be. I can kill you."
The Christian answered, "The power is all on my side. I can love you while you torture me to death."

Sugar420

^ <3 unkle!

how about romans 13?
do you agree that submit does not mean cooperate or conform to worldly governments?

funky_unkle

I believe that statement, like any other statements, and like all people, must bee seen throug a lens of love.

I will not allow government to deny my loving my neighbour or exercise freedoms which I believe are given to me by God. On the other hand, it doesn't kill me to keep speed limits and such. All in all, I don't think one can lay down a set standard, since we are all individuals in different places and situations. It doesn't make any more sense to say "obey your government no matter what" than "do NOT obey your government" no matter what. I'm lucky to live in a free country. I guess this question is more relevant for christians in N. Korea, for example, or Falun Gong members in China.

But anyway, I'm not much of a rule follower...

And I know that Jesus revolted against very much, mostly the religious establishment.

__________________
A communist officer told a Christian he was beating, "I am almighty, as you suppose your God to be. I can kill you."
The Christian answered, "The power is all on my side. I can love you while you torture me to death."

Geeno

Roughly translated in my own mind it sounds like a fancy way to say "Shit happens".

__________________

funky_unkle

Well, that's basically what Jesus said too, when they pointed to a lame man and aske him if it was his parents or himself who had sinned since he was a cripple. Jesus never said everything would be fine.

__________________
A communist officer told a Christian he was beating, "I am almighty, as you suppose your God to be. I can kill you."
The Christian answered, "The power is all on my side. I can love you while you torture me to death."

ziplock

Or he had no ability to fix everything. Which seems to be a completely logical and plausible conclusion.If we assume the statement "I can't walk past a hungry person and accuse God - the guy is hungry because nobody fed him." to be true then we must also assume that God is blameless in the situation, and pretty much not part of the equation. If this is true, then God doesn't seem to have an active influence in that field of our life, which makes sense with free will.Justice within context. We can seek justice, equality and fair treatment on our human, social levels. It's neccessary for social progression and operation. However, who's to say what the result would be of some supposed divine judgment? We can speculate but that's about all, it's really insubstantial. Refraining from judgment for fear of it doesn't make much sense in my perspective. It's like a wives tale which is based on deception in order to keep the child in line. Or the "Santa is watching you so be a good boy or you'll get coal in your stocking!" routine. I've learned through my life experience that these tales are hardly substantial or valid.Please correct me here but isn't laying down a set standard for all's what Christianity has done? Telling people that "THIS is the way you should use your free will." Essentially sacrificing our free will to the speculations of a few individuals in our history. If we assume "It doesn't make any more sense to say "obey your government no matter what" than "do NOT obey your government" no matter what." to be true, then how would it make more sense to obey a doctrine no matter what? Or anything for that matter? To me, it doesn't. Building off the statement that "I don't think one can lay down a set standard, since we are all individuals in different places and situations."IMO, logically it seems the only one to truely obey or believe in is yourself. All else is conditional, indirect, and second hand.

__________________
Insanity is the only sane reaction to an insane society.

Waves

yes he did. that was the message of jesus in my mind. "dont worry folks, this life is only temporary. have fun, love others, and dont fuck with other people, and il see you on the other side" seems to be the original message. its just that layer upon layer of bullshit has been dropped on the bible and jesus message to the point of complete lunacy. all the other bullshit in the new testemant is just ideology infused into the story by greedy men seeking power and control.

__________________
On this life that we call home
The years go fast and the days go so slow

Mclennison

ive decided romans 13 was satire

considering hte time period it was written in and hte fact that paul was probly a roman citizen

Sugar420

^you need to educate yourself before you come to any conclusions because i think you are ignoring a lot of information that is freely avalible, like in this thread