Sugar420

You wont hear this from television preachers


Jesus stayed out of politics. He hid when he saw they were about to “take him by force and make him a King.” (John 6:15) He refused the role of a Judge saying, “Who made me a judge or arbitrator over you?” (LK.2:14) “He refused the role of an executor saying, “Let him which is without sin cast the first stone.” (John 8:6). He advised his followers not to spend their energy on labor problems “Labor not for the food that perishes” (John 6:27), they are to hate their lives in this world not make them comfortable. “He that hates his life in this world will keep unto eternal life.” (John 12:25)

He did not recommend reforming the churches. He said they will hate you and put you out of them, and kill you. (John 15:20)

He did not tell his followers to reprove the world of sin, righteousness and judgment. He said the Comforter will do that. (John 16:8)

“My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight.” (John 18:36) Don't fight. Not for oil or ideology or any worldly thing.

He described the Kingdom as a city of light on a hill (Mt.5:14). This would indicate that Christians are to build alternative communities.

We are not to verbally attack and “name call” the rulers of the babylon system. whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire. (Mt. 5:22)

Avoid courts and jails at all costs “Agree with thine adversary quickly, whiles thou art in the way with him; lest at any time the adversary deliver thee to the judge, and the judge deliver thee to the officer, and thou be cast into prison” (Mt.5:25)

If an oppressor takes your coat given him your shirt. If he enslaves you for one hour give him two.(Mt.5:40)

Forgive your oppressors (Mt. 6:14) Love and pray and bless them.

Don’t fight over land or water rights (Mt.6:25) “The kingdom of Jah is not meat and drink. Don’t fret about what you will eat or drink”

Don’t condemn your oppressors , but look at your own faults that led you to your state of oppression. (Mt.7:1) “regard the mote that is in your own eye”

Don’t try to force others to follow the golden rule (Mt.7:12). You have been forgiven so much, will you now demand that your brother pays every penny for his sins?

Do not fight for housing rights. True followers have no homes. or place to lay their heads. (Mt.8:20)

Don’t fight over burial grounds “Let the dead bury the dead.” (Mt.8:22)

Jesus didn’t try to reform tax laws he called Mathew to leave that life (Mt.9:9)

“But beware of men: for they will deliver you up to the councils, and they will scourge you in their synagogues...when they persecute you flee “But when they persecute you in this city, flee ye into another.” (Mt.10:17-23)

The Devil’s Children and Jah’s children are mixed like wheat and tares and no one can distinguish between them and we are not to try to root up the tares. (Mt.13:29)

We are not to attack blind leaders but ignore them “ “Let them alone: they be blind leaders of the blind. And if the blind lead the blind, both shall fall into the ditch.” (Mt.15:14)

We have not been sent to reform the world for what if we gain the world and lose our souls. (Mt.16:24)

We are to deny ourselves and not love the world.(1 John 2:15)

We are not to call down the wrath of governments on our heads by refusing to pay taxes.(Mt.17:27)

We must not get involve in labor strikes but be content with food and clothing (1Tim.6:8), and be content with our wages (Lk 3:14), and accept what we agreed to work for (Mt.20:13).


God will destroy wicked tenants (Lk.20:15) as well as the rich like Dives (Lk.16:19-31)

We should not be working to reform Caesar but give Caesar what is his due which is zero nada, nothing zilch, ignore him. (Matt.22:21

We are not to participate or be upset by wars or rumors of wars (Mt.24:5)
When the Lord returns his servants must not be beating or attacking people (physically or verbally) (Lk.24:49)

Protesting tends to get ugly. We are not to be involved in “hatred...strife and seditions” (Gal.5:19)

We are not even to let our minds dwell on the wickedness of the world. “whatsoever things are true, whatsoever things are honest, whatsoever things are just, whatsoever things are pure, whatsoever things are lovely, whatsoever things are of good report; if there be any virtue, and if there be any praise, think on these things.” (Phil 4:8)

Our speech is to be “always with grace” (Col.3:6) Heard any grace at Protest rallies?

We are to stay away from “Perverse disputings of men of corrupt minds, and destitute of the truth, supposing that gain (reform) is godliness: from such withdraw thyself.” (1 Tim.6:5)

Not even Michael the Archangel when disputing with Satan reviled him (Jude 1:9)

We are to meekly instruct those who oppose us. (2Tim.2:5)

We must realize that suffering is redemptive and has a place in life, even Jesus became perfect by the things he suffered. “Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered.” (Heb.5:8)

True religion is not tearing down the oppressive satanic babylon system but visiting the widows and fatherless. (James 1:26) It’s a lot more glorious to protest and march with a sign and make bellowing speeches of great swelling words and sing battle songs then help an old, smelly, feeble woman go to the store.

If you side with the poor against the rich then you are a respecter of persons “But if ye have respect to persons, ye commit sin, and are convicted of the law as transgressors.” (James 2:9)

Peace cannot come from strident protesting . You must sow peaceful seeds to have a peaceful harvest, “And the fruit of righteousness is sown in peace of them that make peace.” (James 3:18)

We are to be strangers and pilgrims, not citizens and legislators, lobbyists and partisans.

“The whole world lies in wickedness” (1 John 5:19) Where would you begin to reform it?

funky_unkle

Yes.

__________________
A communist officer told a Christian he was beating, "I am almighty, as you suppose your God to be. I can kill you."
The Christian answered, "The power is all on my side. I can love you while you torture me to death."

Peace seeker

nice read Veda


funky uncle, its good to see you

higherlearner84

So what was that whole load of whoey about?

Sugar420

Basically the mesage is that it is foolish and pointless to try to fix all the problems in the world by political or violent means; no matter how well intentioned, trying to do so will only add to the troubles and strife of the world.

It is better to not participate in the evils of the babylon system, either by way of embracing and conforming to the state or by way of rejection/revolution





thanx guyz

Waves

you dont need thousands year old teachings designed to supress your natural desires and instincts to know that!

__________________
On this life that we call home
The years go fast and the days go so slow

Canuck Wisdom

Cool thread V3d4

How about, 'you dont need thousands year old teachings which have been abused for the purpose of supressing your natural desires and instincts to know that!'? But they go a long way towards helping you.

__________________
-Knowitall A&P type-

Waves

no, they were created and maintaned for the purpose of control and wealth. church + government = control. today of course its science + government but i dont want to get into that.

im talking mainly in christianity and western religion. todays christianity is so far off base that its hardly even comparable. im all for christians in todays society who are out to genuinely do good but the original point was not love and compassion- it was fear and control. JUST READ THE OLD TESTAMENT MAN!

your opinion is half right. today we have people using thousand year old teachings meant to suppress your natural desires and instincts and turning them around to spread love and peace. which im all for. but you dont need christianity or the bible to do this. in my experience its nothing but a hindrence with all the beliefs and dogma associated with it. but just my opinion, i dont mean any offense. we all get different things out of religion. i simply hate using thousand year old beliefs when i can create my OWN beliefs simply from experience. its worked so far.

__________________
On this life that we call home
The years go fast and the days go so slow

Canuck Wisdom

I don't mean any offence either man but thats just not how it is. Your right orginizations can be manipulative, but religion is about the human condition.

I don't know how else to explain it. The old testament was about love too.

__________________
-Knowitall A&P type-

higherlearner84

Noone should conform to what someone of great "wisdom" said or did in the past.
Although it's hard to seperate fact from false facts made out to seem like facts I advise all of you to make up your minds about what you want to with your lifetime based on what you know is right to do. Think it yourself instead of asking the bible,goverments or education system what to do with your life. Be your own man, man.

higherlearner84

why dont you try reading the Quaran?

higherlearner84

making decisions in life has nothing to do with killing people man, if you are sane you should know that.

Do you really think Jesus would want you to waste time reading about him? No he wouldent. He would want you to get your ass out the door and make a difference in the world.


O ya doesent God say that if I dont beleive in him I will go to hell? Lol how can you not see that it is bullshit. What if I was never exposed to god in my life? DO i automatically go to hell? Well the bible says I do. Can you say brianwashed?

Waves

done. twice. was raised a catholic in a catholic school from k-7th grade.

__________________
On this life that we call home
The years go fast and the days go so slow

ziplock

I'm sick of Catholic/Christians thinking everyone who doesn't agree to their idea of God is an atheist. Though whole labelling everyone that opposes you something in your mind derogitory is really reptitive and I'm tired of it. Every fucking time something is brought up you get this bullshit.

Anyways, I should be drunk enough to handle this. My perception of the bible, Christianity and the like... Is they're old. Out dated, past their expirary date. Sure, they got some goodness in them, but so does sour milk. The whole way the message is passed, and all the bullshit thats been implemented to sway the masses that read it, keeps you from that true message. Most mainstream Christians are cluelessly sheltered and contradict their fundamental beliefs at every turn, UNLESS it's to do with another Christian. They apply thing to their own circles, yet outside of them, you're condemned to hell. It's bullshit.

It's a spiritual experience percieved by the consciousness of a person that lived thousands of years ago. They went through social conditioning that had them percieving things a certain way, when they had a metaphysical experience they tried their best to understand it by associating it to physical experiences and objects, tradition, things they knew. By this very process the original message is distorted, not even mentioned the numerous accomodations that were made to make way for personal agendas.

They're fucking ideas. They're a bunch of people thinking about the same shit we do, and they wrote it out from a 2000 year old perspective. Right the fuck on. I can read this, and take in their life labours in a couple days. Does this mean its true? Fuck no, taking into consideration all the bullshit surrounding it I'd be ignorant to think so.

Now some people ,they don't have problems with being hypocritical or contradictory they just like shit working to their standards. Me on the other hand have a problem with those aformentioned labels and try to refrain from being regarded as one. Call it a character trait. Regardless, because of this I could never fully buy into the Christian scenario of suffering life. I actually enjoyed life in my earlier years. God damn me for not seeing my punishment as punishment but whatever, it was Adam and Eve that fucked up not me.

Regardless, today when the contents of these teachings are assessed and understood by the masses they lead to an individual that is restrictive to progression and has historically PROVEN and demonstrated their ability to do so. It psychologically implements itself in the individual to way where the individual is associated with it, that the individual cannot exist outside of this context. There's a dependance that is impressed on them, and in later life scenarios this dependance impeeds them from communicating with other individuals. Communition is the BRAIN of society. Just as the brain cells in your head communicate the people of society need to for it to function. When this is obstructed, it's like brain damage. We try to work to counteracting this in a persons body, and do so also in society (law) however, the constant pressure from religious bodies that refuse to let go of restrictive tradition cause problems at every turn. I'm getting also, very tired of this.

NONE of this is to say however that I don't respect and admire highly the persona of Jesus of Nazareth and do not charish the beauty and validity in his teachings. This is an attack on the transmittance of the message, and it's delivery by his followers. They betrayed him, just as he was in his life.

I also don't regard Jesus any different then me. Infact I regard him as closer to myself then most other people that I've met. He was a man, who had an understanding, and tried to teach. It is NOT his fault that the students were not ready for the message. I know how hard it is to communicate with people, get an understanding accross even if it is to better their life. The difficulty in this is great, and the fact that he could persist and be so devoted is incredible, and something I work towards because I frequently get demotivated by the tendancies of others. This is not their own fault, but generally the conditioning that's been placed upon them. I must respect them, and aid them in reliquinshing this conditioning so they can be exposed freely as their true, individual self. Not as someone who is habitually responding to stimuli as dictated. Not someone who resembles a computer. A free, confident, independant individual who can face each scenario on their own and feel full capable to do so. One that can observe beyond their emotion and direct position in a situation and seek out a better position, seek out an answer to these problems. Instead of being impacted by society, they themselves will impact society. I see each and every person as a Jesus, a Ghandi, a Martin Luther King Jr. They just need to remember that they are. Need to recognize that ability and potential. I feel that this is closer to the true original teachings of Jesus then many followers have found through the bible. I do not restrict myself, to do so would keep me from the goals i wish to accomplish. Instead, I seek to understand. Unfortunately far too many don't care about understanding nowadays, and I had to grow up facing that stupid, harsh reality. Welcome to the real world....

Anyways boys, enough drunken ranting for me. Fuck typings been a bitch... Have a good night everyone, smoke up lots. Time to blaze for me. Peace out! Salam and may you find yourself.

__________________
Insanity is the only sane reaction to an insane society.

Waves

Why is that? the town i grew up in was wonderful and the people in it were generally honest and caring people. granted it was a private school i still consider it a great childhood. i simply grew up and changed. some people dont change, and thats not my problem.
ignorance and apathy strike again!

__________________
On this life that we call home
The years go fast and the days go so slow

ziplock

Here sandman, quote all the parts of my post that gave you trouble. Be specific. And I'll clear everything up. Honestly.

__________________
Insanity is the only sane reaction to an insane society.

Waves

You read the bible and believe it out of sheer ignorance and apathy. in your mind, *something* must have created the earth in all its perfection, right? so you jump to the conclusion that its the giant entity in some other realm watching all of us at once and has a plan yet gives us free will etc etc?

My main problem with the bible is thus. You reality is created by your beliefs. I dont care if you believe me or not, thats how it is. The bible preaches needless beliefs that have little to no relevence in todays society. we need to think up NEW systems and new ways of doing things. we cant have stagnation in thousand year old beliefs.

The funny thing is, to me, you can trace all these religions back to an original message that has just been bullshit over the years by so much greed and corruption. christianity is an offshoot of judaism. your beliefs make sense in your head and in your head only, and i wish you could realize that.
You do it because your parents did it, straight and simple. if it were not for your parents spreading their beliefs onto you, you might have grown up a jew, or a muslim. theres no explanation for stagnation. that rhymes

__________________
On this life that we call home
The years go fast and the days go so slow

Waves

Thats how belief works. Belief creates your reality. Theres absolutely no reason for a person to be christian unless they believe they want to be. this is usually accomplished two ways. 1)indoctrination of beliefs from parents. this is how you pick up ALL YOUR BELIEFS NOT JUST YOUR RELIGION. You pick up your views on woman from your father. you might pick up child-raising beliefs from your mother. thats how it works, monkey see monkey do. the other way is if something happens in your life causing you to "seek god" and become a born-again. these people suck imo.

Im going to put all my money on the fact that your parents were christian. Im good at this shit.
Explain further, i do not understand. how exactly do you get closer to a being which doesnt exist? You dont realize that its all in your head?

The thing is, when you die, all that shit in your head literally becomes your reality. right now you are living in CONSENSUS reality. so you can think something and it wont happen. but when you die whatever you think becomes your reality. You dont want to be sitting around in some "heaven" just sort of waiting around. thats not what the afterlife is about at all. Sure you might be happy and content but its all a figment of your imagination. so i would advise you, before you pass, to seperate the stuff in your HEAD, from the stuff in REAL LIFE. Just because a bunch of people happen to believe in god doesnt make it any more real of a concept. even MORE PEOPLE believe in allah than believe in god. what does that tell you?

__________________
On this life that we call home
The years go fast and the days go so slow

ziplock

sandman, stfu about IQ and the whole belittlement act. You're in no position to be pulling that bullshit and even if you were it's never appreciated or constructive so just drop it. You didnt respond to me, of course. You can make claims but never back them up. You don't respond or defend your position in regards to waves. All you do is sit there and insult like a pissed off little kid. It's childish man. Everywhere you post, same shit.Here, I'm going to fix this last lil sentence up for you. "I have an experience that resembles a closeness with a detatched, seemingly external being, or force. In conceptualizing this experience I have chosen to associate it with my relationship with my mother and father. It's somewhat like a knowing of a family I left but am now close to. I have read a book known as the Bible that some find ignorant. I however found it's content to align well with my experience, my perception of it, and my conceptualization, though this interpretation seems to differ from others who have read the book. Therefore, I will attempt to understand this phenomena further using this way of looking at it."

Now, you have a start.

__________________
Insanity is the only sane reaction to an insane society.

Sugar420

i think some of you guys are misinformed or confused, and all of you guys are way off topic.

you guys have brought a lot of your own baggage to this thread but the topic is not about all that stuff.

im talking about Jesus politics, and the way his followers are instructed concerning the issue of reforming the world: you cant do it, it is vanity to even try. here the issue of "forcing your beliefs onto others" is directly addressed; to respond to all the evil in the world by trying to force everyone to act like you want them to, is to simply become another oppressor

so we are instructed to humble ourselves, and not become furious yelling egos like many of the posts in this thread exemplify.
if anyone here wants to follow the Jesus road, go back and re-read the first post in this thread, or better yet, read the gospel for yourself without my commentary, and let yourself be transformed. try to remember Mt. 5:22

if anyone here wants to debate Jesus politics, go back and read the first post in this thread, and address the issues and concepts presented therein