A Billion Athiests? - Page 11

nailthatshit · 04-23-2008, 01:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SmokeSomeDoja

like zip said, having a god isnt a prereq for religion.

buddhism is a religion, and you wont find very many theologians that would disagree with that.

ok i couldnt find any, can you find me some that do agree with it

ziplock · 04-23-2008, 01:39 PM

Yes it's purely semantic.

Quote:

Originally Posted by dictionary.com

re·li·gion Audio Help /rɪˈlɪdʒən/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[ri-lij-uhn] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
–noun
1. a set of beliefs concerning the cause, nature, and purpose of the universe, esp. when considered as the creation of a superhuman agency or agencies, usually involving devotional and ritual observances, and often containing a moral code governing the conduct of human affairs.
2. a specific fundamental set of beliefs and practices generally agreed upon by a number of persons or sects: the Christian religion; the Buddhist religion.

Quote:

Originally Posted by wikipedia.org

A religion is a set of beliefs and practices, often centered upon specific supernatural and moral claims about reality, the cosmos, and human nature, and often codified as prayer, ritual, and religious law. Religion also encompasses ancestral or cultural traditions, writings, history, and mythology, as well as personal faith and mystic experience. The term "religion" refers to both the personal practices related to communal faith and to group rituals and communication stemming from shared conviction.

In both cases it's understood that it is a set of beliefs and practices. While a supernatural being, god, blind faith, etc, are noted and found within religions they are not the only criteria for a religion.

In this sense I find when people attempt to make an exception for a particular set of beliefs, such as Buddhism, that it is really more a matter of the individual attempting to disassociate it from other unattractive religions than it is an accurate attempt to define it.

zoltron · 04-23-2008, 01:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SmokeSomeDoja

many heads of churches and religions are concerned with gaining more power, like politicians and other greedy assholes. not nearly all or a majority, id argue. an obvious and cliche example would be the 14th dalai lama. he oozes positivity and love out the ying yang.

Well said, my friend. I agree....

Organized religion is just a money-generating joke. I don't think "belonging" to any certain religion is necessary. bongsmilie

EDIT:

& I was born & raised Catholic.

JcP · 04-23-2008, 02:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ziplock

In this sense I find when people attempt to make an exception for a particular set of beliefs, such as Buddhism, that it is really more a matter of the individual attempting to disassociate it from other unattractive religions than it is an accurate attempt to define it.

I think your analysis here is a bit off.

If you asked 100 people how they define religion, I guarantee a majority of them would include the word "God."

When people make an exception for a particular set of beliefs, they are responding to the definitions of religion that have permeated the public discourse, not the actual one.

So the exception some buddhists take with regards to their beliefs vs. "religion", I think, is pretty relevant.

While you are right in terms of actual word definition, the word "religion" means something completely different to most people.

I suppose the correct distinction would be along the lines of -theism.

Psilocychosis · 04-23-2008, 03:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SmokeSomeDoja

religions dont hate each other.

a very small minority in various religions hate other religions for a few different reasons.

religion has caused negativity...and positivity, dont ignore one or the other.

many heads of churches and religions are concerned with gaining more power, like politicians and other greedy assholes. not nearly all or a majority, id argue. an obvious and cliche example would be the 14th dalai lama. he oozes positivity and love out the ying yang.

Historically, the Abraham religions (Islam, Christianity, Judaism) have constantly been at war for one reason or another, id call that hate, whether its a minority or not.

SmokeSomeDoja · 04-23-2008, 05:58 PM

are you trying to tell me that most or even a majority of your everyday, average muslim, jew, or christian, harbor that hate?

you are wrong.

similar to idealogical/political conflicts, it is a very few people that manipulate and coerce the average person to hate and kill others. -- take the 'average' german during world war 2. germans were manipulated to go along with hitlers bullshit, for a number of reasons, fear and coercion being among them.

say what you will, but i dont believe for a second that most people of the abrahamic faiths harbor ill will or hatred toward those of the other abrahamic faiths.

Sugar420 · 04-23-2008, 06:05 PM

^ i agree, and i believe most of the historical conflicts that people always bring up were really political in nature, disguised with bogus religious-sounding rationalization

ziplock · 04-23-2008, 09:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JcP

I think your analysis here is a bit off.

If you asked 100 people how they define religion, I guarantee a majority of them would include the word "God."

When people make an exception for a particular set of beliefs, they are responding to the definitions of religion that have permeated the public discourse, not the actual one.

So the exception some buddhists take with regards to their beliefs vs. "religion", I think, is pretty relevant.

While you are right in terms of actual word definition, the word "religion" means something completely different to most people.

I suppose the correct distinction would be along the lines of -theism.

You raise a good point JcP. When people think religion they typically do think of God, faith, organization, large number of followers, etc. Not so much simply a set of beliefs and practices. So again it becomes largely semantic. When dealing with exceptions it is most likely largely a byproduct of a misunderstanding as to what qualifies as a religion. I should have to correct my analysis to include that it is only valid within the context of the definitions I provided. Even then tho it is a blanket statement. People are complex, creative when it comes to reasoning.

Psilocychosis · 04-24-2008, 02:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SmokeSomeDoja

are you trying to tell me that most or even a majority of your everyday, average muslim, jew, or christian, harbor that hate?

you are wrong.

similar to idealogical/political conflicts, it is a very few people that manipulate and coerce the average person to hate and kill others. -- take the 'average' german during world war 2. germans were manipulated to go along with hitlers bullshit, for a number of reasons, fear and coercion being among them.

say what you will, but i dont believe for a second that most people of the abrahamic faiths harbor ill will or hatred toward those of the other abrahamic faiths.

You misunderstand, only radical sects of these religions harbor hate today. The key word was historically. And even like you said the heads of religions try to squander power by denouncing other faiths for fiscal gain. Abraham or not. Extortion has been prevalent however, especially in the catholic church. From indulgences (selling get out of hell cards basically) to the spanish and papal inquisitions... Today, no average intelligent person, even under manipulation harbors hate or deceit towards other religions. Radical sects are taught all there lives to hate and hate and hate those who do not follow their set teachings, yet there are those who are taught to love those who don't believe in their teachings even more so. But the foundations of modern day religion was built upon blood, and that is a fact.

JcP · 04-24-2008, 05:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ziplock

You raise a good point JcP. When people think religion they typically do think of God, faith, organization, large number of followers, etc. Not so much simply a set of beliefs and practices. So again it becomes largely semantic. When dealing with exceptions it is most likely largely a byproduct of a misunderstanding as to what qualifies as a religion. I should have to correct my analysis to include that it is only valid within the context of the definitions I provided. Even then tho it is a blanket statement. People are complex, creative when it comes to reasoning.

yea, I agree. Especially with the bolded section. Anyway, cool.

kamikazi89 · 04-27-2008, 11:07 AM

see how far humans have evolved..why just 50 years ago religion was considered essential for moral developement..now we know that's not true.

except in parts of africa, and the middle east..and we know what some of those places are like>D E A D LY

04-23-2008, 05:58 PM	#206 (permalink)
SmokeSomeDoja Lushous Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Erogenous Zones Posts: 17,386 Thanks: 240 Thanked 446 Times in 280 Posts	are you trying to tell me that most or even a majority of your everyday, average muslim, jew, or christian, harbor that hate? you are wrong. similar to idealogical/political conflicts, it is a very few people that manipulate and coerce the average person to hate and kill others. -- take the 'average' german during world war 2. germans were manipulated to go along with hitlers bullshit, for a number of reasons, fear and coercion being among them. say what you will, but i dont believe for a second that most people of the abrahamic faiths harbor ill will or hatred toward those of the other abrahamic faiths. __________________ fotoz fo yo azz "I've run over black cats that were luckier than me."

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04-23-2008, 06:05 PM	#207 (permalink)
Sugar420 Freedom Bird Join Date: Mar 2002 Posts: 6,138 Thanks: 41 Thanked 183 Times in 733 Posts	^ i agree, and i believe most of the historical conflicts that people always bring up were really political in nature, disguised with bogus religious-sounding rationalization

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