spanking your kids - Page 4

Transcend · 04-07-2005, 08:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Black_Francis

Uh, how is shouting any less violent than spanking?

Are you serious?
Uh, physical violence is what we're talking about here and it's a million miles away from shouting. Causing someone physical pain and elevating your spoken voice are 2 different things.
You see your parents shouting at you when you've done something wrong or you see them hitting you when you've sone something wrong - you don't see a major difference in this!?!?!?!?

SweetSativa · 04-07-2005, 09:38 AM

I was spanked by my mother and my father but my dad had a tendency to be 'a bit' (cough) verbally abusive.... now, I can tell you that the swat on the ass did not hurt.... not AT ALL like the words. I'm not going to get emotionally upset about this topic because there is no need. My kids love me and I love them and occassionally they get their butts spanked. As far as the teenagers above trying to take on their dads... I say, lay down the law, pop

. My nephew never did get that... in fact nothing was ever 'his fault' and now he's around 230 pounds and pushes his mother and grandmother around (physically). I told him that if he even tried that shit with me I'd knock his ass down and I wasn't joking. 'Cuz I'll tell ya what, if he outweighs me by that much and thinks he has the balls to put his hands on me, I'll grab a weapon and set him straight... and I don't need a man to do it for me either.

*puts on her 'bad ass' face... huh!

04-07-2005, 10:36 AM

transcend is right, as far as "should be" goes...

yes she is

13, 9, and 2 year old

thats just me

cant speak for anybodyelse

Transcend · 04-07-2005, 10:37 AM

I have no kids, correct. But does this make my view point invalid? I was once a child myself and have family with children who never hit their kids. All I can do is give my opinion based on where I'm at in life right now, just like everybody else. Of course my views might change when I'm a parent but I seriously hope not.
Some parents manage to keep control of children without hitting them once. If that can be done then it should...surely!
Every individual case is different, of course, but as a general principle I'd never hit a child and indeed an adult unless I was truly forced to.
Basically, violence is never the answer. How do you know when you've gone too far? Your idea of 'too far' might differ significantly to another parents. It just makes me whince when I see a loudmouth mum in a mall or supermarket hitting her kids about and getting red in the face from all the anger. Now I'm not saying anyone on these boards is like that, just talking in general

^^^SS, yes I agree physical and mental abuse are no different, abuse is abuse. However, I'm not talking about shouting abuse at your kids I'm talking about shouting to stop them doing something immediately rather than spanking their arse.

^^^Slunt-"Pain is a learning tool that evolved with the species, so as to help avoid potentially hazardous situations. You can be told Many times not to touch the stove,but you only have to touch it once to understand."
So if you tell a kid off for something he's gonna keep doing it but give him some pain and he'll never do it agian? BS man!

SweetSativa · 04-07-2005, 10:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Transcend

^^^SS, yes I agree physical and mental abuse are no different, abuse is abuse. However, I'm not talking about shouting abuse at your kids I'm talking about shouting to stop them doing something immediately rather than spanking their arse.

Hi. I understand your viewpoint and I don't mean to demean it in any way. I am not talking about hitting your children abusively either... there is a difference (the extreme case would be what I mentioned with my nephew and if parenting had been different when he was young, he would never dream of raising a hand to his mother... my 16 year old would never think of it... or he wouldn't act on it anyway

). You really 'shouldn't' shout at them either... in an ideal situation, you should be able to reason with them but the situation is definately not always ideal and you do what you have to do. My son still insists on torturing his sister and I'm not going to give him to the count of three when he is digging his teeth into her arm... if he doesn't let go when I yell at him, he's getting his butt spanked. My daughter never did anything like that and she required very few spankings (her attitude has become a bit... mmmmm ... snotty lately but grounding is fitting for her). I think it's great if parents do not spank as long as they do not comprimise their position as the head of the house and allow the kids to run all over them. Every situation is indeed different. I would wager to bet that if I had only one child, they'd never be spanked. I think that it is a parent's choice and should not be demonized. I believe that it is an effective means of discipline and do not consider it abusive at all (the punishment should fit the crime). My nephew's on his way to prison... it's only a matter of time (hope I'm wrong, but I'm not) because he does not recognize authority. It seems that people are afraid to discipline their kids 'these days' and allow them to run all over them... I hear it all the time, and see parents tell their kids not to do something and the child (without even bothering to hide it) does it anyway. Blatant disrespect and why not... they're never made to show respect. My husband and his sister were adopted from different families but raised by the same mother. COMPLETELY different people and completely different parenting methods were required. My husband just seemed to have respect within him, his sister did not... I find it completely irrational that we would believe that there is a 'correct' parenting technique for every child. If that were the case, everyone would be using it... but wait! Now that we don't spank behinds, we have miracle drugs to give these rambunctious little tykes to settle them down. Much better.

04-07-2005, 12:56 PM

calm down, jesus fucking christ, you're almost hysterical

lashes or prozac??

lol

and bud head, what the fuck are you doing??

did he piss you off little buddy, had to censor that ass, since you couldnt spank it??

transend is still right, this aint nuthin to do with playin or training hard, such as onder does with his boys, unless theyre too small to whack that ass back, which doesnt sound like they are, and not now..that's parenting and conditioning, male style, as long as he aint picking on anybody, he'll be allright, thats why we have the social order, and the cops

so if you need to constantly defend what you've done, obviosly something wrong with it

hitting a child by an adult (in my opinion) is a sign of weakness, or disiplin, or lack there of, mostly lack..

you hit your kids, get over it

other then that i dont hit my, cause of my nature...

and learning by examples

SweetSativa · 04-07-2005, 02:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kamikazi89

calm down, jesus fucking christ, you're almost hysterical

rotflmao... I am? hahaha

You so silly

I wasn't at all angry when I wrote this. HOWEVER, my nephew that I referred to (who is causing lots of emotions of those who are around him alot... I'm not anymore) IS on drugs (prescribed for ADHD and bipolar disorder

) and has been since he was about 4 years old. The last statistic that I read (and I admit it has been a few years ago... during the 90s) stated a 700% increase in the use of psychostimulants by children prescribed for 'behavioral disorders'. I don't mean to suggest that spanking could cure anything... it does take however, a willingness to consistantly discipline, love, and be involved in a child's life. This statistic strongly suggests to me an unwillingness to take responsibility for parenting and the search for an 'easy answer' or easy way out.

Quote:

lashes or prozac??

Lashes seem to point toward someone holding a 'switch' or a belt... not someone swatting his/ her child on the bum. And Ritalin was the primary drug I was pointing at.

Quote:

lol

and bud head, what the fuck are you doing??

did he piss you off little buddy, had to censor that ass, since you couldnt spank it??

transend is still right, this aint nuthin to do with playin or training hard, such as onder does with his boys, unless theyre too small to whack that ass back, which doesnt sound like they are, and not now..that's parenting and conditioning, male style, as long as he aint picking on anybody, he'll be allright, thats why we have the social order, and the cops

so if you need to constantly defend what you've done, obviosly something wrong with it

hitting a child by an adult (in my opinion) is a sign of weakness, or disiplin, or lack there of, mostly lack..

you hit your kids, get over it

other then that i dont hit my, cause of my nature...

and learning by examples

Hey, I'll send ya my 4-year-old (if I could pry him away long enough... had a hard time NOT spoiling because of illnesses in the beginning and now he's a bit of a momma's boy... redundant though... already said it) and you send him back when you've got him all 'broken'

(wouldn't really give him up for the world... well.... depending on the day

)

04-07-2005, 02:36 PM

you dont break them sweetsativa, " " or not...

bad ananlogy, could be taken to extremes psychologicly

just stop spoiling him so much, or come to terms with his brattyness

but hitting him will not do it

just remember why he is so loved in the first palce, before you react phyiscal
and you may find yourself with one less action to regret

it aint easy, and i'm sure he'll scream how you're the worst mother in the world, then you'll be more on a level playing field...overreacting emotionaly

as long as the child does not feel you regret him, well..everything will be ok, in the long run..

we all make mistakes, better not to repeat them, or dwell on them

honesty is always best

i feel like kicking the 13, year olds ass sometimes, christ then he goes all.."emo" , i guess you call it

anyway, 4?? no thanks, been there, and gonna do it again, twice more

...sigh, oh well..when i forget something or fail to be the all knowing powerful mystic father

i'll give you a yell for some refresher courses

:bigjoint:

SweetSativa · 04-07-2005, 02:55 PM

Oh well, Ron. I respect your opinion... and I think that if you were around our family, you would respect mine a bit more.

Take care of the little ones... they truly are a gift.

I do, however want to point out that I believe that you are envisioning someone hitting their child in anger... this is not what I am referring to.

04-07-2005, 07:14 PM

i just took the break part too far SS, but it has been my experience thatwhen people do hit children most generally they are angry..i see now that i may have "projected" that onto you, but, this is one of those "emotional" topics, so i do appologize to you personally, i'm just stubborn on the issue

SweetSativa · 04-08-2005, 05:17 AM

Not a problem

I see how you took it... what I meant was (and I was joking as well) you could break him of his obnoxious habits. Honestly though, if he was not obnoxious, he would not be him. I playfully call him "George" after my grandfather because he acts JUST LIKE HIM. Most of the time it is pretty funny and cute but the thing with his sister has got to stop and repeatedly hurting someone else (unprovoked) after being told not to is definately a 'spankable' offense in this house (but I respect the rights of others to make their own rules and punishments). Also, the reason that he was so 'spoiled' was because he was very miserable when he was little... he was very covered in eczema and it hurts to even remember everything that came with this illness.... which also included severe asthma for which he was hospitalized three times and nearly died the last time (spent four days in a pediatric ICU that he was flown to). The thought that I would abuse my children definately hits a nerve. If anyone in the world appreciates the life of their child, it's someone who's almost lost them.

OldSchoolStylee · 04-08-2005, 06:05 AM

What you need is a billy club.

SweetSativa · 04-08-2005, 09:26 AM

^I'm not sure what the cause of this is slunt but the problem cannot be denied. I know that I have heard my own nephew tell his mother and grandmother to shut the *F up, called them whores and all kinds of things that would never have crossed my mind if I didn't want to pick my teeth up off of the floor. His mother's too lazy and his grandmother's afraid of the law. These are things that I've heard since he was small too, not just the teenage years (which, if my son said something like this to me, I'd be picking my own jaw up off of the floor before I asked him what drugs he was on to make him have this false sense of courage

). Now, like I said he's 15 years old and 230 pounds and he doesn't know how to control his anger and has no sense of what is and isn't appropriate. It's not that I think that he hasn't a heart either and he actually has always treated me with respect. One memory rings through my mind as if it were yesterday. My oldest and he were about 5 or 6 and were outside playing as was my neice who was around 3. I heard her crying and looked out to see the boys dragging her by her ankles, her head bouncing off of the cement sidewalk. I ran out and grabbed my son and beat his butt; my nephew came in and heard, "Well, she's always butting in everywhere the boys are playing" and was dismissed to play. I feel confident in my reaction and these years later, have no regrets of it.

SweetSativa · 04-08-2005, 10:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by slunt

I hope you don't hold this against me,but when your nephew decides one day to break into my house or steal my car....I'm going to spank him with a bat.It will be for his own good.

They were over here last year at Easter and he didn't want to leave when it was time (he was messing around on the computer with my son) so he pushed his mother down!!! I told him that if he tried that shit with me, I would knock him on his ass even if I needed a weapon to do it. Personally, I think that prison will be lucky for him because he's going to push the wrong person around... he's too old for a 'spanking' he needs his ass kicked. I don't know what he needs but that's what he would get if he thought he was going to push me around... he knows that I don't play. My son was sitting there with his eyes the size of saucers; he would never dream of acting that way... especially to an adult... and especially to a woman.

SweetSativa · 04-08-2005, 03:20 PM

*nods* He won't hate you. My mom spanked me and I love her to death.

Hehe... I had to laugh at the attempt to get the TV back on...sounds like home

My son just got ungrounded from cartoons as well (4 years old) he was grounded for a week but got off early because he was sick (I never said I wasn't soft damn it... don't look at me like that

) .

atantricchic · 04-08-2005, 03:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by slunt

The Prisons of North America are rapidly filling up with the "New" generation of kids with no conscience(sp).Once they stop listening to or respecting the parents,then they export their terrorism to the neighbourhood.
The "Real" world eats those kids up like candy.They seem to think everyone wants to have a debate about things they do wrong and they throw casual Fuck You's out in the conversation as if there are no consequences.
I work with 87 young guys in my crew.You can tell the ones that grew up in mommies lap by the way every order and instruction you give is shrugged off or questioned.I fire them before the roughnecks can beat them."Real World" nobody wants to work with a mouth-piece who thinks that the world will treat them as Mom did.
Splitting hairs here, but I once threw a father to the ground in a mall who was spanking his unruly child repeatedly.The kids back was bending with every hit.I lost it,grabbed his father by the neck,lifted him off the ground and threw him to the floor.
It's a tough call either way,and sometimes even the best intentioned parent still produces a monster.IMO more monsters are coming into society from the families which have no discipline.eg.A few weeks ago in my neighbourhood,two teens with no respect or discipline,stole a car,ran over a gas station attendant and dragged him screaming for seven kilometers under the car,til he died.Apparently neither of these fine individuals ever faced corporal punishment at home and they feel a good Sorry will fix everything.
Hope whoever puts the beat on them in prison says sorry after they are done.

This man is talking good sense!

kamikazi89 · 09-01-2008, 04:37 AM

and if beating doesn't work..BEAT them some MORE

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thepizzaguy

In the red corner we have Billy The Kid weighing in at just over 39 pounds. Little Billy has a reach of 18 inches and stands about knee high to the contender. You can expect to see serveral blows to the crotch by the little monster

In the blue trunks we have Your Daddy weighing in at a staggering 220 pounds with a good 32 inche reach, and roughly 475 pounds of pressure when it comes down to punching.

If the kid is like 15-20 I say wait until he starts throwing those punches, before you start swinging away.

Enough said

yoh · 09-01-2008, 05:02 AM

if i had a child and i knew it'd grow up to ressurect threads, yes, id beat it.

kamikazi89 · 09-01-2008, 05:09 AM

then they'd be ready for the real-world,,thank me later

yoh · 09-01-2008, 07:47 AM

Really think the whole concept of violence to prove a point is terrible though. What gives anyone the right to inflict harm on another? you created it? well creating something doesnt give you ultimate control over it, just like you couldnt kill your child and say "well its *my* kid, i can do what i want with it" people have absolutely no right to do this to anyone.

View Poll Results: Do you believe in spanking as discipline
Yes and I am a parent	11	14.67%
No and I am a parent	5	6.67%
Yes and I am not a parent	26	34.67%
No and I am not a parent	25	33.33%
I'm not sure	8	10.67%
Voters: 75. You may not vote on this poll

04-07-2005, 09:38 AM	#62 (permalink)
SweetSativa Lucid Daydreamer Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 3,930 Thanks: 26 Thanked 51 Times in 47 Posts	I was spanked by my mother and my father but my dad had a tendency to be 'a bit' (cough) verbally abusive.... now, I can tell you that the swat on the ass did not hurt.... not AT ALL like the words. I'm not going to get emotionally upset about this topic because there is no need. My kids love me and I love them and occassionally they get their butts spanked. As far as the teenagers above trying to take on their dads... I say, lay down the law, pop . My nephew never did get that... in fact nothing was ever 'his fault' and now he's around 230 pounds and pushes his mother and grandmother around (physically). I told him that if he even tried that shit with me I'd knock his ass down and I wasn't joking. 'Cuz I'll tell ya what, if he outweighs me by that much and thinks he has the balls to put his hands on me, I'll grab a weapon and set him straight... and I don't need a man to do it for me either. *puts on her 'bad ass' face... huh! __________________ "Why is it that when people talk to God, we call it praying but when God talks to people, we call it crazy?"- Touched by an Angel http://www.youtube.com/user/immelody.../0/DDRj93dQ0O0

04-07-2005, 10:37 AM	#64 (permalink)
Transcend Old School Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: London England Posts: 136 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	I have no kids, correct. But does this make my view point invalid? I was once a child myself and have family with children who never hit their kids. All I can do is give my opinion based on where I'm at in life right now, just like everybody else. Of course my views might change when I'm a parent but I seriously hope not. Some parents manage to keep control of children without hitting them once. If that can be done then it should...surely! Every individual case is different, of course, but as a general principle I'd never hit a child and indeed an adult unless I was truly forced to. Basically, violence is never the answer. How do you know when you've gone too far? Your idea of 'too far' might differ significantly to another parents. It just makes me whince when I see a loudmouth mum in a mall or supermarket hitting her kids about and getting red in the face from all the anger. Now I'm not saying anyone on these boards is like that, just talking in general ^^^SS, yes I agree physical and mental abuse are no different, abuse is abuse. However, I'm not talking about shouting abuse at your kids I'm talking about shouting to stop them doing something immediately rather than spanking their arse. ^^^Slunt-"Pain is a learning tool that evolved with the species, so as to help avoid potentially hazardous situations. You can be told Many times not to touch the stove,but you only have to touch it once to understand." So if you tell a kid off for something he's gonna keep doing it but give him some pain and he'll never do it agian? BS man! __________________ "Time Passes unhindered. When we make mistakes, we cannot turn back the clock and try again. All we can do is use the present well." - HH DL

04-07-2005, 02:55 PM	#69 (permalink)
SweetSativa Lucid Daydreamer Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 3,930 Thanks: 26 Thanked 51 Times in 47 Posts	Oh well, Ron. I respect your opinion... and I think that if you were around our family, you would respect mine a bit more. Take care of the little ones... they truly are a gift. I do, however want to point out that I believe that you are envisioning someone hitting their child in anger... this is not what I am referring to. __________________ "Why is it that when people talk to God, we call it praying but when God talks to people, we call it crazy?"- Touched by an Angel http://www.youtube.com/user/immelody.../0/DDRj93dQ0O0

04-08-2005, 05:17 AM	#71 (permalink)
SweetSativa Lucid Daydreamer Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 3,930 Thanks: 26 Thanked 51 Times in 47 Posts	Not a problem I see how you took it... what I meant was (and I was joking as well) you could break him of his obnoxious habits. Honestly though, if he was not obnoxious, he would not be him. I playfully call him "George" after my grandfather because he acts JUST LIKE HIM. Most of the time it is pretty funny and cute but the thing with his sister has got to stop and repeatedly hurting someone else (unprovoked) after being told not to is definately a 'spankable' offense in this house (but I respect the rights of others to make their own rules and punishments). Also, the reason that he was so 'spoiled' was because he was very miserable when he was little... he was very covered in eczema and it hurts to even remember everything that came with this illness.... which also included severe asthma for which he was hospitalized three times and nearly died the last time (spent four days in a pediatric ICU that he was flown to). The thought that I would abuse my children definately hits a nerve. If anyone in the world appreciates the life of their child, it's someone who's almost lost them. __________________ "Why is it that when people talk to God, we call it praying but when God talks to people, we call it crazy?"- Touched by an Angel http://www.youtube.com/user/immelody.../0/DDRj93dQ0O0

04-07-2005, 10:36 AM	#63 (permalink)
kamikazi89 Guest Posts: n/a	transcend is right, as far as "should be" goes... yes she is 13, 9, and 2 year old thats just me cant speak for anybodyelse

04-07-2005, 12:56 PM	#66 (permalink)
kamikazi89 Guest Posts: n/a	calm down, jesus fucking christ, you're almost hysterical lashes or prozac?? lol and bud head, what the fuck are you doing?? did he piss you off little buddy, had to censor that ass, since you couldnt spank it?? transend is still right, this aint nuthin to do with playin or training hard, such as onder does with his boys, unless theyre too small to whack that ass back, which doesnt sound like they are, and not now..that's parenting and conditioning, male style, as long as he aint picking on anybody, he'll be allright, thats why we have the social order, and the cops so if you need to constantly defend what you've done, obviosly something wrong with it hitting a child by an adult (in my opinion) is a sign of weakness, or disiplin, or lack there of, mostly lack.. you hit your kids, get over it other then that i dont hit my, cause of my nature... and learning by examples

04-07-2005, 02:36 PM	#68 (permalink)
kamikazi89 Guest Posts: n/a	you dont break them sweetsativa, " " or not... bad ananlogy, could be taken to extremes psychologicly just stop spoiling him so much, or come to terms with his brattyness but hitting him will not do it just remember why he is so loved in the first palce, before you react phyiscal and you may find yourself with one less action to regret it aint easy, and i'm sure he'll scream how you're the worst mother in the world, then you'll be more on a level playing field...overreacting emotionaly as long as the child does not feel you regret him, well..everything will be ok, in the long run.. we all make mistakes, better not to repeat them, or dwell on them honesty is always best i feel like kicking the 13, year olds ass sometimes, christ then he goes all.."emo" , i guess you call it anyway, 4?? no thanks, been there, and gonna do it again, twice more ...sigh, oh well..when i forget something or fail to be the all knowing powerful mystic father i'll give you a yell for some refresher courses :bigjoint:

04-07-2005, 07:14 PM	#70 (permalink)
kamikazi89 Guest Posts: n/a	i just took the break part too far SS, but it has been my experience thatwhen people do hit children most generally they are angry..i see now that i may have "projected" that onto you, but, this is one of those "emotional" topics, so i do appologize to you personally, i'm just stubborn on the issue

04-08-2005, 06:05 AM	#72 (permalink)
OldSchoolStylee ¯\(º_o)/¯ Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Blighty Posts: 8,202 Thanks: 17 Thanked 131 Times in 54 Posts	What you need is a billy club. __________________ .<12not_bongo> oss is legit hellz ya.

04-08-2005, 09:26 AM	#73 (permalink)
SweetSativa Lucid Daydreamer Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 3,930 Thanks: 26 Thanked 51 Times in 47 Posts	^I'm not sure what the cause of this is slunt but the problem cannot be denied. I know that I have heard my own nephew tell his mother and grandmother to shut the *F up, called them whores and all kinds of things that would never have crossed my mind if I didn't want to pick my teeth up off of the floor. His mother's too lazy and his grandmother's afraid of the law. These are things that I've heard since he was small too, not just the teenage years (which, if my son said something like this to me, I'd be picking my own jaw up off of the floor before I asked him what drugs he was on to make him have this false sense of courage ). Now, like I said he's 15 years old and 230 pounds and he doesn't know how to control his anger and has no sense of what is and isn't appropriate. It's not that I think that he hasn't a heart either and he actually has always treated me with respect. One memory rings through my mind as if it were yesterday. My oldest and he were about 5 or 6 and were outside playing as was my neice who was around 3. I heard her crying and looked out to see the boys dragging her by her ankles, her head bouncing off of the cement sidewalk. I ran out and grabbed my son and beat his butt; my nephew came in and heard, "Well, she's always butting in everywhere the boys are playing" and was dismissed to play. I feel confident in my reaction and these years later, have no regrets of it. __________________ "Why is it that when people talk to God, we call it praying but when God talks to people, we call it crazy?"- Touched by an Angel http://www.youtube.com/user/immelody.../0/DDRj93dQ0O0

04-08-2005, 03:20 PM	#75 (permalink)
SweetSativa Lucid Daydreamer Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 3,930 Thanks: 26 Thanked 51 Times in 47 Posts	nods He won't hate you. My mom spanked me and I love her to death. Hehe... I had to laugh at the attempt to get the TV back on...sounds like home My son just got ungrounded from cartoons as well (4 years old) he was grounded for a week but got off early because he was sick (I never said I wasn't soft damn it... don't look at me like that ) . __________________ "Why is it that when people talk to God, we call it praying but when God talks to people, we call it crazy?"- Touched by an Angel http://www.youtube.com/user/immelody.../0/DDRj93dQ0O0

09-01-2008, 05:02 AM	#78 (permalink)
yoh the real folk blues Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: A hat made of lemons Posts: 51 Thanks: 8 Thanked 13 Times in 7 Posts	if i had a child and i knew it'd grow up to ressurect threads, yes, id beat it.

09-01-2008, 07:47 AM	#80 (permalink)
yoh the real folk blues Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: A hat made of lemons Posts: 51 Thanks: 8 Thanked 13 Times in 7 Posts	Really think the whole concept of violence to prove a point is terrible though. What gives anyone the right to inflict harm on another? you created it? well creating something doesnt give you ultimate control over it, just like you couldnt kill your child and say "well its my kid, i can do what i want with it" people have absolutely no right to do this to anyone.

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