spanking your kids

SweetSativa · 03-23-2005, 10:01 AM

So, what do you think?

03-23-2005, 10:06 AM

i dont do it, aside from the tap on the finger or hand to reinforce that touching something is dangerous, but even then extremely rare...

snapshot · 03-23-2005, 10:07 AM

I'm not a parent but I think it teaches kids that it's OK to let irrational anger control you when it comes to disciplining someone whether or not that was the parents intention.

When I was getting spanked the only thing I wanted to do was hit my parents back. I knew if I did that I'd just get hit more.

I just think it's for stupid people.

"Grrr I'm so mad I could hit you!"

SweetSativa · 03-23-2005, 10:12 AM

I do use spanking as a form of discipline but also rare. It is mostly with my youngest child who insists on torturing his older sister... I tried telling her that she could hit him back in cases of self defense (she's much older than him but he's a tough little cookie and I just don't know what gets into him when it comes to her... he doesn't do it to anyone else and she does nothing to 'ask for it') but she started 'abusing' that advice so I took it away. I sit him in time out and talk to him (try reasoning...hehe) but nothing seems to work. He's such a sweet thing until it comes to this.... he was really spoiled when he was a baby (he's four now) because he had severe eczema and asthma and I held him pretty much constantly... he's a momma's boy and my buddy and maybe he's jealous of her. I think that there are times when spanking is warranted... I also think that different children require different forms of discipline and different behavior warrents different parental approaches. They should come with instruction manuals.

snapshot · 03-23-2005, 10:27 AM

I think there should be heirarchy of what you should teach your children. Like what if in martial arts they taught you how to take down and kill and human being for the first 9 years of training, and then the last month they taught you how to avoid confrontations and to avoid using your abilities whenever possible. Fuck that last month of training.

Turn it around though, and place the first month as the confrontation avoidance training and that aspect would be included in all lessons thereafter.

I don't think self-defense should be taught to children until they understand what the self is. A child could understand the self as either physical or mental/emotional.

I don't understand why different children would need different forms of punishment unless the children manipulated you into certain forms of punishment that they felt was best for them (less stressful for them). When I was a kid I always tried to avoid certain punishments and when I saw a certain punishment was inevitable I would use reverse psychology on my mom to try to get her to give me the lesser of the punishments by begging her not to do the lesser punishment to me.

Anyway, I think there's better things than spanking.

Koery · 03-23-2005, 10:31 AM

What about teasing with food? You could punish your kids by not giving them food. I don't mean starving them, but perhaps give the better one a treat while the other watches. Or give the better one the choice of A or B and the bad one with only A. Steak and potatoes, or JUST STEAK!

SweetSativa · 03-23-2005, 10:54 AM

Different discipline works differently with different kids because they are individual people, Snapshot. Some kids don't care about being sat in a corner and to others it is the worst thing on the face of the earth. I didn't react to punishment the way that you did. I was ashamed of myself most of the time when I got into trouble (my mother is the unsurpassed queen of guilt)... because I didn't get into trouble unless I deserved it and I knew it (from her anyway). I also knew that she loved me.

Assuming that all children have the same requirements is a rookie mistake. To my daughter, there is nothing worse than having her privelege to talk on the phone with her friends taken from her. My (step) son on the other hand, could care less... even though he's the one that constantly has people (girls) calling. He'd rather be doing other things and it's not uncommon (depending on the girl

) for him to tell us to stay on the internet when we see a call coming in or to whisper that he's not home when the phone rings.

I also agree with what kamikazi mentioned... a slight tap on the hand of a very young child who is reaching for the stove with a harsh "NO" is much better than them burning their fingers on the stove.... and they will fight a simple, "no"... the slap is a reinforcment (in psychological terms it is a positive punishment). You may be able to distract the child and give them a cookie to sit in the other room but they still have not learned that the stove is dangerous in that scenario. Well anyway, I do not think that there is one right and one wrong method of parenting or we'd all be doing it, would't we?

Just curious as to everyone's views.

SweetSativa · 03-23-2005, 11:08 AM

I also agree with SoulSpeaker... I spank, I do not hit and leave a mark. Once I was cutting my step-son's hair and he kept intentionally shaking his head around being a brat and I (out of anger... and without thinking) slapped his leg and left a welt... and I felt horrible, told him that I was sorry and should have never done it. Spanking shouldn't be done out of anger and I like the idea of putting oneself in time out... I try to do that but never seem to hear the end of, "mom, mom, mom, mom" ... it's like a mantra to them, I think.

snapshot · 03-23-2005, 11:26 AM

My mom was terrible with guilt and still is. That is one of the reasons why she never had any control over me. She could never get inside my head.

snapshot · 03-23-2005, 11:31 AM

The feeling between spanking and hitting is different but I don't think the idea of between them is that different at all. If a spank on the bottom is OK, a spank on the face is OK? Is it only a spank if you hit them on the hand, or the bottom?

I think the most important thing is not to rationalize it to yourself but to try to get in your kids head to get them to understand you. It's all about communicating a point to your children, whether through physical contact or timeout. If you can't get into your child's head I think you should practice, thereby just switching it up maybe a way of discinplining.

SweetSativa · 03-23-2005, 11:33 AM

Do you see your mother as an 'enemy' or someone to combat?

SweetSativa · 03-23-2005, 12:15 PM

Man, am I wasting alot of time online today... but I did come across this little fact sheet that I thought I'd pass along to anyone interested (btw... I was a psychology major for three years and am now a drop-out

and have thoroughly heard both sides... years ago though).

http://www.rmfc.org/fs/fs0072.html

John F. Kerry · 03-23-2005, 12:49 PM

a negative punishment is much better than a positive one imo,

taking away tv priveleges, not getting extra priveledge, etc .etc.
something like hitting (positive) can have a far reaching negative effect on the kids psyche , besides i agree with snapshot that its pretty irrational for someone to hit their kids only because they cant control their anger.

snapshot · 03-23-2005, 12:52 PM

She's always been the bad guy and my dad's always been the good guy.

~1~ · 03-23-2005, 01:01 PM

If you sit the child down and explain to them that they were bad and they are going to be spanked as a punishment for bad behavior, you've blown it, you have missed the window...

Bad acts need immediate and effective consequences so a young person will galvanize the idea that bad behavior= bad consequences, put it in their head that its NOW that you learn not to do that.

My mom smacked us kids, and I admit, I have given the boys a "brain duster" on occasion just to shake loose the cobwebs. Always the severity of the punishment fit the severity of the crime, so to say, if they don't clean their room they don't get their allowance but if I come in and they're in a headlock wrestling on the floor breaking shit, someones getting the back of my hand.

In every instance of me being on the recieving end of the smack I equated the action that got me smacked and you know what? Much like lab rats, I learned to not perform that particular behavior because I didn't like the effect it had on my day, get it?

You can rationalize it to them all day long, tell them to share their feelings and talk it out, tell you why they kicked mom in the shins but really, when did you learn the stove was hot? Ain't ONE of you here at three years old didn't reach up and burn themselves on something hot right after mom said "NO! thats hot!"

snapshot · 03-23-2005, 01:05 PM

Guilt trips are the way to go, IMO but only when needed. Kids don't understand rationalization, which is a higher level brain function that kids havn't formed yet, but they do understand lower level brain functions associated with emotions. Hitting is the lowest form of punishment requiring the lowest level of brain functioning known as action/reaction, which I feel inhibits maturation. That's just me though.

SweetSativa · 03-23-2005, 02:00 PM

The things that my son gets spanked for (the other kids are pretty much out of the spanking stage and grounding them works just fine... and is seldom needed) are things that he has been told over and over and over again not to do... things that he knows are obviously wrong and deliberately does anyway. No explanation is necessary by that time... he knows perfectly well what the deal is. I also (if it is at all possible) use the counting method... I count to three and if they haven't stopped doing what they are doing (such as the wrestling that Oneder referred to) then they may get a swat on the butt or sent to their room or in time out (depending on what we're referring to). I find this quite effective with my kids (very seldom do I get past "ONE").

GodSka · 03-23-2005, 02:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oneder

You can rationalize it to them all day long, tell them to share their feelings and talk it out, tell you why they kicked mom in the shins but really, when did you learn the stove was hot? Ain't ONE of you here at three years old didn't reach up and burn themselves on something hot right after mom said "NO! thats hot!"

I think that when the child grows large enough to reach the top of the stove, you should force his hand onto the hot stove and keep it there for a couple of seconds so he knows that it hurts and will never touch it again. That's what my mom did for me.

~1~ · 03-23-2005, 02:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SweetSativa

I also (if it is at all possible) use the counting method... I count to three and if they haven't stopped doing what they are doing (such as the wrestling that Oneder referred to) then they may get a swat on the butt or sent to their room or in time out (depending on what we're referring to). I find this quite effective with my kids (very seldom do I get past "ONE").

It's quite effective because the first two or three times you tried it, you got not only to three, but you re-enforced the threat by carrying through with it in your actions so that next time mom starts the count if you dont stop you know whats coming. It's called 'conditioning', it works, as animalistic as it may seem kids need to be trained sometimes more than taught...

By the way, don't send the kids to their rooms as punishment, my kids have cable, computers, video games as well as a rather large library that they use often so in my opinion, theres no punishment there. If I want them to go somewhere and be bored to tears as punishment, I send 'em to my room, nothin' goes on in there...

SweetSativa · 03-23-2005, 02:24 PM

^Yep... well, my kids aren't allowed to play thier games when they're sent to their rooms and if they tick me off just right, I've got a billion chores that I have them do. Different kids different... my oldest just loves it when I'm all pissed off... thrives on it so I keep my cool and never let on and I say, "OH GOOD! I was needing someone to pull weeds for me!!!! Thank you SO MUCH for volunteering!!!"

I'll bet you're a cool parent, Oneder... weren't you the one who framed your kids' "artwork" on the dresser? And the honesty thing.... I'm almost the same way... value it above all else (I remember the Santa conversation).

View Poll Results: Do you believe in spanking as discipline
Yes and I am a parent	11	14.67%
No and I am a parent	5	6.67%
Yes and I am not a parent	26	34.67%
No and I am not a parent	25	33.33%
I'm not sure	8	10.67%
Voters: 75. You may not vote on this poll

03-23-2005, 10:01 AM	#1 (permalink)
SweetSativa Lucid Daydreamer Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 3,930 Thanks: 26 Thanked 51 Times in 47 Posts	spanking your kids So, what do you think? __________________ "Why is it that when people talk to God, we call it praying but when God talks to people, we call it crazy?"- Touched by an Angel http://www.youtube.com/user/immelody.../0/DDRj93dQ0O0

03-23-2005, 10:07 AM	#3 (permalink)
snapshot no custom. customize Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: The unOriginal Rorschach. Posts: 19,302 Thanks: 15 Thanked 22 Times in 21 Posts	I'm not a parent but I think it teaches kids that it's OK to let irrational anger control you when it comes to disciplining someone whether or not that was the parents intention. When I was getting spanked the only thing I wanted to do was hit my parents back. I knew if I did that I'd just get hit more. I just think it's for stupid people. "Grrr I'm so mad I could hit you!" __________________ We are all atheists about most of the gods that society has ever believed in. Some of us just go one god further. -Richard Dawkins

03-23-2005, 10:12 AM	#4 (permalink)
SweetSativa Lucid Daydreamer Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 3,930 Thanks: 26 Thanked 51 Times in 47 Posts	I do use spanking as a form of discipline but also rare. It is mostly with my youngest child who insists on torturing his older sister... I tried telling her that she could hit him back in cases of self defense (she's much older than him but he's a tough little cookie and I just don't know what gets into him when it comes to her... he doesn't do it to anyone else and she does nothing to 'ask for it') but she started 'abusing' that advice so I took it away. I sit him in time out and talk to him (try reasoning...hehe) but nothing seems to work. He's such a sweet thing until it comes to this.... he was really spoiled when he was a baby (he's four now) because he had severe eczema and asthma and I held him pretty much constantly... he's a momma's boy and my buddy and maybe he's jealous of her. I think that there are times when spanking is warranted... I also think that different children require different forms of discipline and different behavior warrents different parental approaches. They should come with instruction manuals. __________________ "Why is it that when people talk to God, we call it praying but when God talks to people, we call it crazy?"- Touched by an Angel http://www.youtube.com/user/immelody.../0/DDRj93dQ0O0

03-23-2005, 10:27 AM	#5 (permalink)
snapshot no custom. customize Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: The unOriginal Rorschach. Posts: 19,302 Thanks: 15 Thanked 22 Times in 21 Posts	I think there should be heirarchy of what you should teach your children. Like what if in martial arts they taught you how to take down and kill and human being for the first 9 years of training, and then the last month they taught you how to avoid confrontations and to avoid using your abilities whenever possible. Fuck that last month of training. Turn it around though, and place the first month as the confrontation avoidance training and that aspect would be included in all lessons thereafter. I don't think self-defense should be taught to children until they understand what the self is. A child could understand the self as either physical or mental/emotional. I don't understand why different children would need different forms of punishment unless the children manipulated you into certain forms of punishment that they felt was best for them (less stressful for them). When I was a kid I always tried to avoid certain punishments and when I saw a certain punishment was inevitable I would use reverse psychology on my mom to try to get her to give me the lesser of the punishments by begging her not to do the lesser punishment to me. Anyway, I think there's better things than spanking. __________________ We are all atheists about most of the gods that society has ever believed in. Some of us just go one god further. -Richard Dawkins

03-23-2005, 10:06 AM	#2 (permalink)
kamikazi89 Guest Posts: n/a	i dont do it, aside from the tap on the finger or hand to reinforce that touching something is dangerous, but even then extremely rare...

03-23-2005, 10:54 AM	#7 (permalink)
SweetSativa Lucid Daydreamer Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 3,930 Thanks: 26 Thanked 51 Times in 47 Posts	Different discipline works differently with different kids because they are individual people, Snapshot. Some kids don't care about being sat in a corner and to others it is the worst thing on the face of the earth. I didn't react to punishment the way that you did. I was ashamed of myself most of the time when I got into trouble (my mother is the unsurpassed queen of guilt)... because I didn't get into trouble unless I deserved it and I knew it (from her anyway). I also knew that she loved me. Assuming that all children have the same requirements is a rookie mistake. To my daughter, there is nothing worse than having her privelege to talk on the phone with her friends taken from her. My (step) son on the other hand, could care less... even though he's the one that constantly has people (girls) calling. He'd rather be doing other things and it's not uncommon (depending on the girl ) for him to tell us to stay on the internet when we see a call coming in or to whisper that he's not home when the phone rings. I also agree with what kamikazi mentioned... a slight tap on the hand of a very young child who is reaching for the stove with a harsh "NO" is much better than them burning their fingers on the stove.... and they will fight a simple, "no"... the slap is a reinforcment (in psychological terms it is a positive punishment). You may be able to distract the child and give them a cookie to sit in the other room but they still have not learned that the stove is dangerous in that scenario. Well anyway, I do not think that there is one right and one wrong method of parenting or we'd all be doing it, would't we? Just curious as to everyone's views. __________________ "Why is it that when people talk to God, we call it praying but when God talks to people, we call it crazy?"- Touched by an Angel http://www.youtube.com/user/immelody.../0/DDRj93dQ0O0

03-23-2005, 11:08 AM	#8 (permalink)
SweetSativa Lucid Daydreamer Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 3,930 Thanks: 26 Thanked 51 Times in 47 Posts	I also agree with SoulSpeaker... I spank, I do not hit and leave a mark. Once I was cutting my step-son's hair and he kept intentionally shaking his head around being a brat and I (out of anger... and without thinking) slapped his leg and left a welt... and I felt horrible, told him that I was sorry and should have never done it. Spanking shouldn't be done out of anger and I like the idea of putting oneself in time out... I try to do that but never seem to hear the end of, "mom, mom, mom, mom" ... it's like a mantra to them, I think. __________________ "Why is it that when people talk to God, we call it praying but when God talks to people, we call it crazy?"- Touched by an Angel http://www.youtube.com/user/immelody.../0/DDRj93dQ0O0

03-23-2005, 11:26 AM	#9 (permalink)
snapshot no custom. customize Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: The unOriginal Rorschach. Posts: 19,302 Thanks: 15 Thanked 22 Times in 21 Posts	My mom was terrible with guilt and still is. That is one of the reasons why she never had any control over me. She could never get inside my head. __________________ We are all atheists about most of the gods that society has ever believed in. Some of us just go one god further. -Richard Dawkins

03-23-2005, 11:31 AM	#10 (permalink)
snapshot no custom. customize Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: The unOriginal Rorschach. Posts: 19,302 Thanks: 15 Thanked 22 Times in 21 Posts	The feeling between spanking and hitting is different but I don't think the idea of between them is that different at all. If a spank on the bottom is OK, a spank on the face is OK? Is it only a spank if you hit them on the hand, or the bottom? I think the most important thing is not to rationalize it to yourself but to try to get in your kids head to get them to understand you. It's all about communicating a point to your children, whether through physical contact or timeout. If you can't get into your child's head I think you should practice, thereby just switching it up maybe a way of discinplining. __________________ We are all atheists about most of the gods that society has ever believed in. Some of us just go one god further. -Richard Dawkins

03-23-2005, 11:33 AM	#11 (permalink)
SweetSativa Lucid Daydreamer Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 3,930 Thanks: 26 Thanked 51 Times in 47 Posts	Do you see your mother as an 'enemy' or someone to combat? __________________ "Why is it that when people talk to God, we call it praying but when God talks to people, we call it crazy?"- Touched by an Angel http://www.youtube.com/user/immelody.../0/DDRj93dQ0O0

03-23-2005, 12:15 PM	#12 (permalink)
SweetSativa Lucid Daydreamer Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 3,930 Thanks: 26 Thanked 51 Times in 47 Posts	Man, am I wasting alot of time online today... but I did come across this little fact sheet that I thought I'd pass along to anyone interested (btw... I was a psychology major for three years and am now a drop-out and have thoroughly heard both sides... years ago though). http://www.rmfc.org/fs/fs0072.html __________________ "Why is it that when people talk to God, we call it praying but when God talks to people, we call it crazy?"- Touched by an Angel http://www.youtube.com/user/immelody.../0/DDRj93dQ0O0

03-23-2005, 12:52 PM	#14 (permalink)
snapshot no custom. customize Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: The unOriginal Rorschach. Posts: 19,302 Thanks: 15 Thanked 22 Times in 21 Posts	She's always been the bad guy and my dad's always been the good guy. __________________ We are all atheists about most of the gods that society has ever believed in. Some of us just go one god further. -Richard Dawkins

03-23-2005, 01:01 PM	#15 (permalink)
~1~ Successful Failure Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: where 'they' can't see. Posts: 10,925 Thanks: 466 Thanked 1,581 Times in 925 Posts	If you sit the child down and explain to them that they were bad and they are going to be spanked as a punishment for bad behavior, you've blown it, you have missed the window... Bad acts need immediate and effective consequences so a young person will galvanize the idea that bad behavior= bad consequences, put it in their head that its NOW that you learn not to do that. My mom smacked us kids, and I admit, I have given the boys a "brain duster" on occasion just to shake loose the cobwebs. Always the severity of the punishment fit the severity of the crime, so to say, if they don't clean their room they don't get their allowance but if I come in and they're in a headlock wrestling on the floor breaking shit, someones getting the back of my hand. In every instance of me being on the recieving end of the smack I equated the action that got me smacked and you know what? Much like lab rats, I learned to not perform that particular behavior because I didn't like the effect it had on my day, get it? You can rationalize it to them all day long, tell them to share their feelings and talk it out, tell you why they kicked mom in the shins but really, when did you learn the stove was hot? Ain't ONE of you here at three years old didn't reach up and burn themselves on something hot right after mom said "NO! thats hot!" __________________ "And those who are successful, be always on your guard. Success walks hand in hand with failure, along Hollywood Boulevard" Ray Davies --------------------------------------------------- --------------------------------------------------- Click Here Asshole Last edited by ~1~; 03-23-2005 at 01:03 PM. Reason: clarity...ehh, I'm stoned.

03-23-2005, 01:05 PM	#16 (permalink)
snapshot no custom. customize Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: The unOriginal Rorschach. Posts: 19,302 Thanks: 15 Thanked 22 Times in 21 Posts	Guilt trips are the way to go, IMO but only when needed. Kids don't understand rationalization, which is a higher level brain function that kids havn't formed yet, but they do understand lower level brain functions associated with emotions. Hitting is the lowest form of punishment requiring the lowest level of brain functioning known as action/reaction, which I feel inhibits maturation. That's just me though. __________________ We are all atheists about most of the gods that society has ever believed in. Some of us just go one god further. -Richard Dawkins

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03-23-2005, 02:00 PM	#17 (permalink)
SweetSativa Lucid Daydreamer Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 3,930 Thanks: 26 Thanked 51 Times in 47 Posts	The things that my son gets spanked for (the other kids are pretty much out of the spanking stage and grounding them works just fine... and is seldom needed) are things that he has been told over and over and over again not to do... things that he knows are obviously wrong and deliberately does anyway. No explanation is necessary by that time... he knows perfectly well what the deal is. I also (if it is at all possible) use the counting method... I count to three and if they haven't stopped doing what they are doing (such as the wrestling that Oneder referred to) then they may get a swat on the butt or sent to their room or in time out (depending on what we're referring to). I find this quite effective with my kids (very seldom do I get past "ONE"). __________________ "Why is it that when people talk to God, we call it praying but when God talks to people, we call it crazy?"- Touched by an Angel http://www.youtube.com/user/immelody.../0/DDRj93dQ0O0

03-23-2005, 02:24 PM	#20 (permalink)
SweetSativa Lucid Daydreamer Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 3,930 Thanks: 26 Thanked 51 Times in 47 Posts	^Yep... well, my kids aren't allowed to play thier games when they're sent to their rooms and if they tick me off just right, I've got a billion chores that I have them do. Different kids different... my oldest just loves it when I'm all pissed off... thrives on it so I keep my cool and never let on and I say, "OH GOOD! I was needing someone to pull weeds for me!!!! Thank you SO MUCH for volunteering!!!" I'll bet you're a cool parent, Oneder... weren't you the one who framed your kids' "artwork" on the dresser? And the honesty thing.... I'm almost the same way... value it above all else (I remember the Santa conversation). __________________ "Why is it that when people talk to God, we call it praying but when God talks to people, we call it crazy?"- Touched by an Angel http://www.youtube.com/user/immelody.../0/DDRj93dQ0O0

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