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Old 02-02-2010, 02:08 AM   #1 (permalink)
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Unhappy Why did games stop evolving?

Anyone who has the patience to step in here and see what this is about probably asks "What the hell do you mean? Have you seen graphics lately?"

Why, yes I have. and however impressive it is, I'm not completely won over. They say it's usually the little things that count, and believe me, it is. Some of the gaming staples I'm going to grill in particular are things like :

Reloading in FPS games
Carrying containers in just about every game
Health restoration, or otherwise physical integrity

So for all the FPS players, let's discuss reloading by starting with a familliar example.

So you're running and gunning (or laying and gunning, I don't care) and it's time to reload. There are a few bullets left in the clip, but you're willing to sacrifice them. It's called a tactical reload. but wait! You didn't sacrifice them at all! You still have them. For you see, the clips in FPS games are magical relics which teleport unused bullets back into your possession.

As much as I like disobeying the rules of reality when I game, there are some things they could treat more realistically for the sole purpose of immersion. If every clip you threw away like that was a clip wasted, wouldn't you think a little more tactically? I know that sometimes in Call of Duty games, I reload with two bullets missing out of a clip. That's poor planning, and should never go unpunished.

Now let's discuss the inventory system.

When you think of games with unrealistic inventory setups, you may think of Doom, Quake, Fallout 3, Bioshock, Grand Theft Auto, and various other titles and genres. Let's call out our good buddy Fallout 3 and grill it thoroughly.

In a game that revolves around survival, you are able to carry an assault rifle, a shotgun, a revolver, a pistol, a flamethrower, a minigun, a missle launcher, 60 pounds of scrap metal, not to mention all the ammunition for all these damn guns, a sledgehammer, a sword, 20 bottles of beer, and 50 packs of cigarettes ALL ON YOUR BODY! No explanation needed. This is video game land. You can shoot nails from your pee pee for all we care! Well, I care.

I notice a lot of the time that the lack of consequence really takes the fun out of gaming. Imagine if in Fallout, you actually had backpacks, holsters, ammo belts, tool belts, etc. How fucking satisfying would that be? So much customization, you'd feel the most immersed that one could feel (aside from the fact that poking yourself with a needle can heal a broken limb in mere seconds). Just imagine gearing up before a big mission. You could, say:

Slap on your leg holster.

Equip a pistol ammo pouch on the correct side of your body for a reload speed boost.

Put two more holsters on your back for an assault rifle and a sniper rifle.

Jerry rig that knife sheath you got off that dead bandit to attach to your shoulder for easy access.

Equip a quickdraw holster for a second sidearm, or equip an extra ammo belt/pouch in its place.

Equip a backpack with only your bare essentials, such as first aid, food, water, and spare ammunition.

and there you have it. You're not a walking man-arsenal, but you certainly have enough gear to be self-sufficient. Not only that, but you know that you could really carry all of these things in real life. If that's not satisfaction, then what is? Blowjob doesn't count as an answer, so we'll continue on to...

Health Restoration / Physical Integrity

Think of a game that lets you take an infinite number of stabs, bullets, fireballs, kicks to the groin, or anything else that makes people dead and/or uncomfortable. If you didn't think of one then don't worry, because I already dragged one out for show-and-tell. It's Modern Warfare 2.

Let's face it, in a combat situation where you take on hoards of armed men by yourself, you're fucked hombre. I can think of numerous times when I was running through a hail of bullets and damn near absorbing every single one. and what does my character do? He breaths heavy, sitting completely still, and waits until he feels better. Although that is convenient for video game land, you feel much less satisfied knowing that by all laws of reality, you should be a dead man.

and with that said, couldn't they even it out? Make the CPU controlled opponents a little less accurate (on higher difficulties), and make it a tad easier to get taken down by a stray bullet, or even a well placed shot. Now we're talking. Now we've got consequences.

Doesn't that sound a little harsh? One or two bullets, c'mon man, how do you expect anyone to finish the game? With careful timing and pinpoint accuracy I'd say.

To cut down on the harshness, let me introduce another concept. Simulation physical damage.

If an enemy shoots and nails you in the hand, will you croak? Not necessarily, but you might have a hard time aiming steadily afterwards.

If an enemy shoots you in your kevlar/body armor, you won't always be ousted but you'll sure need some time to get your wits about you and finish shitting yourself.

If an enemy shoots you in the foot, you'll limp. In the leg, you'll not only limp but move slower.

and you can deduce what I'm getting at. This sounds like a terrible idea at first I'm sure, but it takes testing and a team of actual developers to work out the kinks.

I'm done. Wish I had more, but I'm done. I felt like writing something and here it is. Like it, hate it, print it out and roll a blunt with it. Do what you will.

Last edited by apathybullet; 02-02-2010 at 02:12 AM. Reason: Careless typos
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Old 02-02-2010, 02:17 AM   #2 (permalink)
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well it's gotten to a point that they need to be able to make games for everyone. this means, people that can afford gaming computers. the more and more advanced the graphics get, the more advanced(expensive) computers it takes to run games.

they need to market to all people, not just people who can afford the expensive gaming computers.

until technology catches up with the software it's going to be awhile before we start to see any major explosions in gaming. the gaming industry is bigger than it's ever been right now. they're just trying to play catch up at this point. once they do though, we'll be in business.

part of me wants to go into graphic design to try to help the gaming industry with my artistic talent, but part of me says i would be one of a million trying to do the "same" thing.

who knows, maybe someday well figure out a completely new code other than binary(if that's even possible) and then games will look like real life.

in reality, the matrix is possible. the brains works very similar to a computer. the military is actually studying that right now with 2300 PS3's. don't ask me what you could possibly need that many play stations for.
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Old 02-02-2010, 02:55 AM   #3 (permalink)
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Well, I just remembered a concept that I forgot to stick in my previous post. I'm sorry, I know it must be painful to read my posts, but hear me out. This new concept is as such.

I realize that I just brought up Fallout 3, but for the following idea, no game would be more suitable.

Once again with the reloading. How does one reload in games like these? By the push of a single button. In reality, changing a magazine is a skill that must be honed and worked for to be done quickly. It takes practice. Well, imagine this situation.

In order to reload, a series of simple button combinations (specific to the weapon being used) would be executed. We'll use the XBOX 360 controller as an example.

Pressing down on the directional pad + X would remove the spent clip.

Pressing B would reach for a fresh one out of the ammo pouch (you know, the one you equipped to your liking? Awwwwwww yeah).

Pressing up on the directional pad + X would put the fresh clip in the gun.

Depending on whether you reloaded in the middle of the clip or at the end, a pulling back of the slide or hammer could be done by holding the controller sideways and pulling back on both control sticks with the palm of your hand.

Not too complex, not too simple. Seems just right. Remember how satisfying the active reload system in Gears of War was? It was like its own little mini-game in which the player was rewarded for the excellent timing. It added a sense of urgency to the situation, especially if you were in a really tight spot and happened to jam your gun by trying to do an active reload.

Let's not just focus on reloading, however. What about treating wounds? Repairing weapons? These things are also done with the push of a button yet we all know they aren't that simple. I'll adress both of these things.

In order to treat a wound, one would first have to find a good, quiet place to do so. Does anyone else remember MGS3's healing system? I'm talking along the same lines, only mini-game style. The amount of health restored would be lightly based on your character's stats, but at the same time would be dependent on your speed, accuracy, and memory of the procedures (all of which could be reviewed in a sort of "field manual" in-game). These, of course, wouldn't be overly complex, but just right. Enough to make the player 'work for it', but not enough to make it overly-complex and unfun.

Next is weapon repair and maintenance.

In Fallout 3, you needed to find a weapon identical to the broken one, weigh it over your repair skill, and hit a button. You could also take it to a vender or some kind, but most of them sucked at it too. It gets really boring after a while, and kills the immersion.

How about a mini-game very similar to lock picking (as seen in Oblivion, and Fallout 3, SPLINTER CELL). They could have just made the player hit a button, but why didn't they? Because they knew it would be fun for the player to test their abilities. Rather than to leave it in the hands of a dice roll, they wanted the player to use their judgement, precision, patience, and experience to unlock locked doors. I know I'm not the only one who thought this was badass.

Why can't tending to your arsenal be the same way? Instead of going through the hassle of waiting until you find an identical gun, why not let the player take it into their own hands to repair it? As with treating wounds, the characters stats would come into play somewhat, but most would be dependent on the player's skill, memory, speed, accuracy, and overall coordination. For players who weren't so good at the minigame, they could always take it to a vender and have them repair it for them, but the choice would always be theirs whether they wanted to fix it themselves or have someone else do it.

A person starting a fresh game wouldn't be so good at repairing weapons. However, they would get better and better at weapon repair. Shucks, who knows, maybe they could repair NPC gear for a price? This would be a fun way to make money. Same with field surgery. The possibilities are endless. Why do game makers think the opposite? I wanna see some of this implemented in the years to come. I'm surprised they haven't already done this.

I know that their goal is to "appeal to everyone", but ironically, they are sacrificing so much just to appeal to those who just picked up gaming, and at the same time experienced gamers are given a lack of challenge that they so often crave. Why can't they make both simple games and complex games? If they're afraid of losing money, I think they're just paranoid. There are plenty of gamers like me who love complexity.

I know I said "that's all" last time, but for real this time. I can't think of anything else I'd like to add. Sorry for the lengthy post...and the last one...and the one that will probobly follow this one.
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Old 02-02-2010, 03:04 AM   #4 (permalink)
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fallout would be rubbish if you could only carry small amounts of gear. it would make the whole game a fuck on as you travel backwards and forwards transporting all the stuff you want. its not meant to be realistic its meant to be entertaining
and as for the rounds left in clips do you think real soldiers just throw them on the floor when they change them? they keep them
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Old 02-02-2010, 03:18 AM   #5 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lloydy View Post
fallout would be rubbish if you could only carry small amounts of gear. it would make the whole game a fuck on as you travel backwards and forwards transporting all the stuff you want. its not meant to be realistic its meant to be entertaining
and as for the rounds left in clips do you think real soldiers just throw them on the floor when they change them? they keep them
I know they don't chuck em' on the 'floor'. I sure as fuck wouldn't either. I'd keep the damn things. So why don't they keep em' in games? I see them dropping those clips. Even if they think I don't, I totally do.

and sir, don't get closed minded on me now. Who says you'd have to run baaack and fooorth and baaack and fooorth to transport your gear? How much gear does a person need for crying out loud? Half the shit people carry around they don't even use.

To address the issue of finding and selling loot, perhaps something such as a vehicle (something Fallout 3 lacks entireley, unless it's blowing me up) could be used to transport loot.

Other than loot, who cares. Make a sacrifice. Choose your gear wisely, grow close with your gear, depend on your gear. Don't just think of it in one way. That's what's wrong with the gaming industry.
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Old 02-02-2010, 03:26 AM   #6 (permalink)
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i think the new one is going to have vehicles.
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Old 02-02-2010, 04:25 AM   #7 (permalink)
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Vehicles would be a nice adittion. If the damn things can explode when someone shoots them with a bullet (bullet + old rusty metal = TNT somehow?) then they can somehow be used. I'm pretty sure nobody was happy that they made them that way.
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Old 02-02-2010, 09:10 AM   #8 (permalink)
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Games aren't evolving for the same reasons movies are sucking..... people buy the half rate crap so they keep making it.

That is simple economics. Why pay more for your product when less will do?

Ultimately you'll just decide to stop playing them if they get bad enough right?
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Old 02-02-2010, 11:05 AM   #9 (permalink)
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lloydy got it...

id rather it be entertaining than realistic...i like to run around and shoot people...when i run low on ammo, i dont want to have to play a round of bop-it on my controller to get more ammo...i want to either push a button and waste time or switch to my secondary and end that shit...
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Old 02-02-2010, 11:33 AM   #10 (permalink)
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most game developers cater the difficulty of their games to casual players

as time goes on we will see the complexity and intricacy of games naturally increase, so give it some time. videogames have only been around for 30 years.
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Old 02-02-2010, 11:36 AM   #11 (permalink)
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i dont see what would be wrong with having a realistic mode tho ,
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Old 02-02-2010, 01:28 PM   #12 (permalink)
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the distiction that you are missing is that of the difference between action games and simulation games...The market is saturated with action games just like the entertainment industry is saturated with action flicks, stories, etc...Pure war simulations although realistic are not on the minds of consumers because most gamers are content with having the gaming remain a thrilling experience that they can jump in and out of, while gunning down thousands of baddies with minimal reloading...If games were too real, they wouldn't be games, they would be life simulators...
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Old 02-02-2010, 01:36 PM   #13 (permalink)
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i dunno, games could at least have something approaching hollywood-style realism. when we watch action movies it's cool to see some badass things being done, and the appeal of action games is the prospect of actually doing some of that badass stuff. you're never actually going to be locked in a firefight with terrorists or surviving in a nuclear wasteland. video games will always be able to give us that chance, however realistic the gameplay becomes.

but i'll agree with the general consensus that it's simply easier and more lucrative to keep games as they are
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Old 02-02-2010, 01:43 PM   #14 (permalink)
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what about bioware's games? they keep getting even deeper. the trilogy they're making is pretty nuts.
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Old 02-02-2010, 01:46 PM   #15 (permalink)
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I want to see games with worlds that actually change depending how you play them, where time makes a difference so being passive is also making things turn out certain ways. I want possibilities and more possibilities and a game engine capable of compensating for any number of variables - a game that gives you something to accomplish, and if you can think of a way to accomplish it, you actually CAN attempt to do it.
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Old 02-02-2010, 01:48 PM   #16 (permalink)
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yeah fable 2 is way too shallow
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Old 02-02-2010, 01:49 PM   #17 (permalink)
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they have that game, its called reality...
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Old 02-02-2010, 01:51 PM   #18 (permalink)
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fable 2 was gay
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Old 02-02-2010, 01:52 PM   #19 (permalink)
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that IL-2 Sturmovik is pretty damn realistic on realistic mode, but wasn't that popular because of how hard it was im guessing.

games used to be hard. ya know you had to wait to save, couldnt just save whenver you want so you could redo it over and over again. didn't recharge health (i like the game mag's approach better than mw2, you cant just sit you have to inject yourself to regain health).

to get a bigger audience they made it easier so more people wouldn't get turned off.


just realized this has already been said, but i already typed it out. posting anyways
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Old 02-02-2010, 01:55 PM   #20 (permalink)
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because if i wanted to play something more realistic, id play this:


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