Gben-Chalice

i was wondering, what is the rate of loss of vigor as the generation of yourclones rises? While i grow bonsai moms so all my cuttings are x1 clones, cuttings i've given away have been used as moms and one friend (who seems incapable of growing a decent mom, he always ends up with these nasty leggy moms) is on his x5 mom. I cans see for myself that his plants are less vigorus than my cuttings...the difference is really only noticeable up to 3-4 internode

farmergiles

If the mom is healthy the clones get a better start. If you took one of your clones and one of his and vegged them for a good while in identical environments you probably wouldn't tell the difference.

Can't say I've ever had noticeable loss of vigor in clones but then I've never ran a strain for decades or anything. Probably depends on the genetics to some extent.

I think loss of vigor is caused by the age of the plant triggering hormonal changes, rather than the number of generations. Of course a virus or mutation could affect the plant.

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kitch

I've heard this prollem is pretty common. There are epi-genetic chains that extend off your DNA and basically determine the lifespan of an organism. They get used up over time. Even in mammalian reproductive cloning, the clones are genetically older than their parents.

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farmergiles

Maybe better strains have more durable epi genetic chains.

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thcbuz

I also think the whole gamut of variables has effect on clone vigor over time.in a perfect world,maybe nothing would change.but IMHO I've only gotten clones to last about 3 years before they stray to the point the finished product isnt up to par and gets culled from the garden.and I will admit,moving,temp swings,bug infestations are all symptoms of reasons for loss of vigor.but i will admit also that for around a dozen clone cycles of a strain there should be very little drift from what you harvested the first run and IMHO thats a considerable time span if a clone cycle is 60 days.given the price of a decent pack of genetics and the ability to clone one speciman several times for several cycles.I don't concern myself with if it'll happen or when,I just grow it and clone 'em as fast as I can till I'm able to mess it up,and then I pick a new strain

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SpankyMcLankey

this is true. it's proven that humans have "better genetics" for kids while they are younger, like 20-30. then again humans and weed is a lot different. but come to think of it, they both use the same double helix... soo.. your guess is as good as mine.

Gben-Chalice

yah...sounds reasonable...i dont get any problem with my x1 moms...but i went the extra mile to select them ( grown from seed,in soil, vegged their whole life, the only time they've ever had less than 15 hrs light was when i sexed them, plus i grow my moms bonsai....30 + cuttings a month per plant and my oldest mom is 9 year old and 14 inches high) i'd post my bonsai html, but it's on a drive in a infected pc...if you can find "overgrow.com" archived somewhere that's where i got the method