Speaks.hazy

Hey folks, been thinking more and more lately about growing Ruderalis plants aka Autoflower. I read they can finish from seed to flower in about 9 weeks outdoor, but is the end result really worth it? Does anyone here have experiences with them?

Thanks

José

I doubt they could finish in 9 weeks from seed. I would be willing to try them some day though. I guess it depends how much space you have and how many plants your willing to have/how much bud you want.

I hear they can produce 2oz each, no idea how accurate that is though.

flappy

Autoflowering and not waiting until Fall, when the narcs and thieves come out . . .
The return of Ruderalis | Cannabis Culture Magazine

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Speaks.hazy

Thanks for that link, was a good read, i can envision a sort of outdoor sea of green with these plants you could get them started indoor and move them out if you did it right you could harvest all summer, since the plant doesn't rely on photo period changes. I also hear they are not clone-able does anyone know this to be true?

José

that's a good point, I might look into this..

Sugar420

i havent grown any but i have heard that theres no point in cloning because the cuttings will flower at the same time as the plant they came from

Speaks.hazy

Oh, figures so you end up with a runted cutting trying to flower, unless you try to take the cutting early into the mothers life so they are both small and about the same size, but it looks like the only effective way would be to work from seed. I still would like to hear from someone who has tried growing them, a greenhouse would defiantly be idea for all year growing without having to shade or cover your plants

farmergiles

I've never tried ruderalis- there seem to be a couple of drawbacks-
-If it autoflowers then how do you control how big it's gonna get?
-Unless the strain is truebreeding it is going to be an awful hassle dealing with different phenotypes- with no cloning you'll never be sure what exactly you are growing until after you've grow it.


A clone proof plant has got to be a seed seller's dream .


I've heard two theories on the origins of ruderalis

- It is wild Russian weed

- It is descended from indica stock but has been bred choosing plants which show autoflowering tendencies- normally a breeder would avoid any such plant.


Another thing- if you can't clone ruderalis then how do you breed it?
I mean I can see that you could but you would have to employ methods different from those generally used.

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José

I don't think it's the actual ruderalis. They just used selective breeding to shorten the flowering time.

I for one would love to mess around with trying to cross breed them with regular plants. Try to find out what characteristics are dominant.

TheTrueShangsta

I have grown out many autoflowering plants of a few different strains. Not worth the time, effort, or cost(which was very high when i first bought these seeds- the prices have gone down since the breeders and seed banks have gotten poor feedback in regards to yield and stability) IMHO.

Dont get me wrong, I've heard a couple success stories with AF strains, but generally speaking, dont waste your time.

I've grown Lowryder, Lowryder 2, and a few other lowryder crosses. I've also grown Auto Ak-47, Diesel ryder and White Dwarf as well has some random autoflower mixed packs from cheaper breeders. I tried all of the above indoors and out in pretty good numbers. I also have tried some since they first came out a few years ago, and IMO nothing has really changed- A bit more potent perhaps, but AF strains still run into the same problems as they used to.

First off, my first batch of Lowryder ever, was barely an actual Autoflowering strain...I had to reduce the daylight hours from 24 to 18 in order for it to begin flowering (in theory- they should flower at a certain age of sexual maturity, rather than depending on photoperiod- the should have began flowering without a decrease in light.

The seedbanks and breeders go on and on about the short turn around time and multiple harvests per season......in truth, I once had some Lowryder 2 plants that i put out with my outdoor crop in March, planning on doing 2 harvests at 10 weeks per plant.....Long story short: i got one harvest of Lowryder 2 that year, and it finished just a couple weeks before my other non-AF strains. Indoor, they seemed to finish a bit quicker but not by much.

The leaf-to-calyx ratio is not great in my experience. You would think that since the plants are supposed to use less time and energy vegetating, that they would produce more bud than leaves but this is not the case- My diselryder was some of the leafiest bud I've had/seen.

The taste/high of most of these strains are good. I dont really notice much of a difference between the high of AK47 and Auto AK...or that of diesel ryder and NYCdiesel. But the way they grow sure is different.

As for breeding, I have breed some autoflowering f1s from Lowryders and crosses, and from my experience, the autoflowering trait (though unstable as it is) seemed to carry pretty well from generation to generation. Be careful, I have found a few herms (not stress induced) which definitely carried from generation to generation. From what i've seen...the seeds produced by the herms have been all females that end up herming late in flowering. When breeding AF strains with regular ones, the most dominant trait that is carried is the dwarfed size of the plant. It takes several generations of back crossing and selective breeding (with seed, not clone) to successfully carry over the autoflowering trait without diminishing yield. More commonly, you just end up with a stunted version of the non-AF parent.

As for cloning-You can certainly take a cutting, and root it...but by the time the clone successfully roots-it will chronologically be a couple weeks into "flowering" and you'll basically just end up with a clone-it wont grow into much more than a clone with some pistils and maybe trichomes. Ideally, when taking a clone from a non-AF strain, you want to take it from a sexually mature and healthy mother in veg. Taking a clone from an AF strain is kind of like taking a clone from a flowering non-AF plant-sure, it can be done...but the cloning process takes significantly longer and in the case of Autoflowering strains, too long. When you take a clone from a flowering plant, before the cutting can start to produce roots, it must redirect its hormones and generate rooting and vegging hormones, as opposed to the flowering hormones it is used to producing at this point in its life. As someone said here before, the clone you take will most likely flower at the same time as the mother you took it from-whether it exhibits signs of flowering during the rooting process or not, either way-the plant will "think" it had been flowering the whole 2 weeks of rooting-leaving you with 2 less important weeks of flowering. Cannabis in general, packs on nearly half of its final weight on in the final 2 weeks of flowering-if you effectively cut 2 weeks of flowering out of its life cycle than in theory, your harvest will only be 50% of what it could be.


So there you go, a bunch of reading for you from an experienced AF grower.
Verdict- NOT WORTH IT.

hope that helped

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farmergiles

Cheers Shangsta, good to have 1st hand experience here.

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Speaks.hazy

Thanks a bunch Shangsta, I was planning on pollinating a female every so often to continue a crop, but sounds like that really stirs up the gene pool with these things. Its disappointing to hear how inconsistent the flowering is, i guess that goes to show you cant completely trust what the seed banks tell you.

What was your approximate yield per plant? I was just hoping i could some how supplement the fall crop and use these as a "hold me over" but I'm not so sure i will be trying them now sound like a headache.

farmergiles

Yeah I was wondering how easy this shit is to breed with conventional methods.

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Speaks.hazy

Yeah if they wouldn't be such a pain indoors id like to stabilize a strain. I'm sure after enough "artificial selection" breeding a nice male with a pretty girl of the same strain they would even out a bit and be a bit more reliable. Even if it does take a good lot of generations. Maybe in a few years that's what the breeders will do, instead of seeing which new hybrid they can put on the market without testing it.

However some of these seeds are equal in price to feminized high end strains, so i guess they must have some type of expense or hassle to breed and collect them

Rubix

great post, Shangsta. very informative. i think yahooka should have reputation post scores

José

that's what the thanks button is for, otherwise everyone would have 2 negatives for every positive..

Rubix

well, yea, but a rep meter would be better i still say. but then again, this isn't a dedicated drug board either

TheTrueShangsta

I had the same idea as you, wanted 2 harvests so that i would have something to smoke until the bigger fall harvest....Most recent average yeild per plant was very low. They had about 12 hours of direct sun a day outdoors and each produced less than a quarter oz per plant, using organic soil and nutrients. They were very healthy plants, but very low yeilders. Indoor, the number was around 1/8th per plant (with 18 hour days). Dont get me wrong, they can give you a decent yeild in mass numbers...but the cost per seed is generally worth its weight in bud IMHO

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Pharm Girl

Autoflowering clone question answered ..........^ up there's somewhere!

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DailySmoker

If your going to go ruderalis I suggest getting a hold of some Lowryder #2 seeds.
It is apparently twice as strong as the previous lowryder with the same flowering time.