ChiefBongWater

So ive never really understood the f1 , f2 generation thing. Ive heard it a bunch of times but never really knew what it meant.

I guess the first cross between 2 diff strains is f1 and then the cross between those is the 2nd generation, right? and then so on...

Ive heard a lot of people say that they stay away from f2 gen seeds cause they are unstable or they vary the most. Is that true? If that is the case what would be the ideal generation to look for? Would the f1 be best or would it be better to wait wayyy down the line like f6 or something like that?

__________________

Mafoo

the first cross, mom x dad is Parental generation 1, or P1. thats your reference point

F1 is the first offspring of the P1 cross.
F2 would be if you crossed two F1 plants (self polination[self x self], or brother x sister)

i guess F2's might have a little more phenotypic variance because if the P1 plants had any recessive traits that are not favorable they would be more likely to be expressed in the F2 generation.

rough example:
AA= high yeild, heavy stoney high
Aa= good yeild, good balanced high
aa= low yeild, creative stimulating high

P1: AA x aa
F1: 100% Aa
F2: 25%AA; 50%Aa; 25%aa <--- so theres possibly more variation in the seeds from this generation, meaning you might get different phenotypes

__________________
PLUR
For once you have tasted flight you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skywards, for there you have been and there you will long to return

farmergiles

Mafoo, I'm not sure you're right about f2's having the most variety.

An f1 (1st filial generation) is the offspring of any given cross, the f2 the offspring of f1s, etc..

If the parents are dissimilar the f1s will (as an average) show the most variation in phenotype and the most vigour.

Careful selection is needed to preserve vigour and desirable traits in successive filial generations. By the 4th generation, f4s, desirable traits might be stabilised in an IBL.

IBLs (in bred lines) will produce offspring which are similar to the parents.

So I guess the answer is f1s if you don't mind sorting between a lot of phenotypes to find a keeper.

On the other hand the offspring of IBL's are pretty good if you are growing from seed as you have a good idea of what you are going to get.

__________________
Cultivate a stoic calmness

ChiefBongWater

Thanks guys. that cleared a lot up for me I havent seen too many listed as IBL. Come to think of it ive only seen it once. It was listed as Herijuana IBL ...

__________________

Mafoo

the example i gave would only be valid if both parents are homozygous. like farmer giles said, if the parents are different then you have a wider range of variation among the generations. its not really a question that can be summed up with a few sentences, genetics are really complicated, and to try and 'guess' is not really possible.

__________________
PLUR
For once you have tasted flight you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skywards, for there you have been and there you will long to return

farmergiles

On further research it seems that you are right Mafoo, but only if your p1 plants are two different IBLs.

__________________
Cultivate a stoic calmness

fenderbender

biology is awesome eh

__________________
Imagine there's no heaven,It's easy if you try

<3

ChiefBongWater

Awesome but very confusing, lol. This girl i work with just moved here from portland. She was telling me how her dad is a bio chemist, and he grows marijuana for some dispensary out there.

__________________

Mafoo

i just took genetics

it all depends on the parental genotypes, if the parents are both heterozygous(Aa) then the F1's ratios will look like the F2's ratios in the example i posted.

i dont know much about ibl's but i would assume they are pure breeding(meaning AA or aa, not mixed dom and recessive), so it doesnt really matter how many generations you produce as long as you breed using 2 purebreads of the same genotype. that will insure consistency in the progeny

__________________
PLUR
For once you have tasted flight you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skywards, for there you have been and there you will long to return

farmergiles

A breeders ploy...

Cross two IBLs to make a vigorous fairly consistent F1.

The F2s will be inconsistent, rendering the F1s relatively worth more money.

__________________
Cultivate a stoic calmness

vaporedout

wha wha what? thats why i come here, you guys know your shit

TIG

I was under the impression that the f2s would have the most variation. It was explained to me that because its the first cross of sibling plants in the line some recessive genes come forward. Kinda the same way you don't breed puppies from the same litter haha.

tig

Pharm Girl

and that's why I stay here.....

__________________

.....The Time has Come to 'Walk the Talk'.....~

......A message for ALL from the Deer Tribe...~

It is a great journey —
but you must do the walking
and have the willingness to change
and make the leap into
the next level of human evolution.

Become an inquisitive free thinking
individual that takes
responsibility for your life
and the spiritual accountability to live life to the fullest.

Fuck the Monkeys

Dandaweedman

P1s are the stable parents you are going to cross together. Key word is stable.
If the parents aren't stable you will have 4x the work to do anything useful to the kids.

F2 is where alllll the monkeys come out to play for sure, good post Mafoo. I love the F2s for that reason. It's generally where you find the bestest and most interesting babies.
The problem being we can't use thousands of plants to pick and choose from so things get homogenous
(I always forget if it's homogenous or the other one I can't spell real well )
very fast and you lose the rest of the funky part of the gene pool

__________________

farmergiles

Huge test runs that's what we need.

__________________
Cultivate a stoic calmness

Dandaweedman

Yep, a few greenhouses would be sweet.

__________________