Some simple complex questions

Cerebro · 01-19-2011, 03:40 AM

do i need to do the whole mum clone thing?
or should i just grow from seed?
i want a high output, what veg period will give me the best yield? taking into consideration number of harvests per season, so annual yield.
i'm thinking of a grow tent or two, should i make them myself?

a few questions that i wouldn't mind your help with

Jenna_Grows · 01-19-2011, 05:35 AM

Its pretty nice to have moms and run clones.. much faster as lots of people don't veg their clones at all.

I like beans and variety but miss having a mom collection of keepers. Growing a clone from the mamas, you can dial in your nutes according to the strain cuz you know the subtlety's of that strain backwards and forwards so that's a big plus.

But.. I like beans! Beans Beans the magical fruit, the more you grow, the more you hoot? ha

Research your tent if you buy one.. I've read some give off some sort of toxin that adversely effect the plants. Don't know enough about it to say much more...

PS... full moon in Cancer Cerebro....watch for low flying owls!

**Pharm Girl** · 01-19-2011, 11:02 AM

Quote:

i'm thinking of a grow tent or two, should i make them myself?

farmergiles · 01-19-2011, 12:37 PM

In your case I can't see any benefit apart from knowing the sex and the pheno.

Seeds will most likely yield better if you plant them early enough as the longer veg period will make for a bigger plant.

Unless you vegged your clones indoors but I guess that's not the best use of resources in this instance.

Having a tray full of female keeper clones has got to be tempting though. Specially if you have sativa-ish plants (mh?) so they're gonna grow a fair bit before finish anyway...

**mothernature** · 01-19-2011, 02:17 PM

I think for indoor, clones would give the biggest overall yield, because you don't have to wait for the plant to mature, and could have more crops per year.

Actually, even outside, clones would probably give the biggest overall yield as well, because they would have a jump start on seeds.

Ideally, I would want both. Clones to keep my supply consistent, and seeds to play with and get more potential clones. Variety is nice.

I always vegged at a 18/6 cycle. I kept moms and fresh cuttings under flouros at a 24/0 cycle until the big lights were available.

I know nothing about grow tents.

Very cool pic Pharm Girl. I just wanna....climb in and hang out.

Cerebro · 01-19-2011, 04:08 PM

lol at pg's pic, imagine a small disco ball in there, maybe a couch in the corner, pipe some tunes down the ducting.
Jenna - I'm not really thinking of keeper Mothers. Clones, yes. Many dont veg clones; but is that the best option, or just for the impatient?
The HydroHut is the one i remember. I'll post a pic of some tents, they are available in mylar, or white pvc. It seems mylar is the standard, I think that's because you dont get that fume issue with mylar. Anyone know more on this? mylar vs white?
fg - can you tap a little about how you'd run a tray of keeper clones, that sounds very interesting.
mn - i'd be wanting to grow from seed, then either (i) butcher for clones, and grow from clones, or (ii) take a couple (when?) of cuts, one to sex out, others as clones and grow out original seed plant, or (iii) a better idea that i dont know yet.

Jenna_Grows · 01-19-2011, 04:20 PM

If anyone could make their own tent.. It would be you Pharmette. I still can't figure out how to make slip covers!

Quote:

but is that the best option, or just for the impatient?

Good question Cerebro...those who do it swear by it but that's indoors for sure..hydro in alot of cases too.

Would you veg inside? Do you have the time to sex em? I mean if you ran clones, you'd know they were ladies and wouldn't put alot of effort out to boys.. less of course you are looking to make beans?

Cerebro · 01-19-2011, 04:55 PM

two level or

single level
plus

Just pics, no dimensions yet, that's based on the outcome of this thread.
So, forget about outdoors. I'll consider that separately

SmokeaJoint · 01-19-2011, 05:34 PM

If you ask me, I say go for seed. I also say go a step further and experiment with genetics and making your own seed stock.

As far as for yield, clones are faster and more reliable. No space wasted keeping unproductive males. Either from seed or clone though, you could still set up a perpetual harvest with just a little trial and error. That way, no worries about yield. You got a rotation of plants coming out of cure as some more go it, got plants going into flowering as new ones get vegged, etc.

Of course, cant really do that kind of grow outdoors in most of the world. I'd definitely take advantage of the outdoor season while it lasts though!

EDIT: To answer the tent material question, a flat, white surface reflects a good deal better that a silvered or mirrored surface. Hence why we tell rookies not to use tin foil to line a grow area. That, and hotspots.

Cerebro · 01-19-2011, 07:37 PM

I will def have some seeds, nice genetics too, so i'll find some pollen along the way and selectively pollenate some favoured outdoor fems, that's the likely plan for breeding and seedstock at the mo.
Yeah, I have it in my head that white reflects a little more light and puts out less heat. But I'm not sure about it, all the pics of the tents seem to have mylar.

SmokeaJoint · 01-19-2011, 07:53 PM

I know I have seen covering similar to mylar, but black/white. Its called visqueen plastic, and they advertise it at 100% opacity on the outside, and 85% effective reflection off the white interior. I tried but couldn't find anything comparing reflectiveness of visqueen and mylar, and alot of the mylar statistics I found were conflicting. However, the 85% for visqueen is thrice verified from my search. (and Jorge Cervantes supposedly uses visqueen in his garden setups inside.)

The thanks is for being Boss enough to support using seeds and strengthening the phenos. Too many folks cloning or killing males killed off the F1 phenotype for P. Haze and no other strain should go that route.

Cerebro · 01-19-2011, 07:54 PM

Next simple complex question is what floor size
I'm thinking 4, or 9, square pots. 4, if they are going to veg long, 9 if i'm going throw them into early flower.
So; 4 in a ScrOG, or 9 single kolas. Thoughts on height? I'll mostly grow hybrids and sat doms. Light wattage, duct diam, are two more that i'm looking for feedback on. And cooltubes.

Cerebro · 01-19-2011, 07:57 PM

yeah, i know that as panda film, the option listed is for white pvc mostly, though i may not have read that perfectly, and i want to be comparing apples to apples. thanks for your help. I'll know what visqueen is now

SmokeaJoint · 01-19-2011, 08:16 PM

For height, and since their Sat doms and hybrids, between 5-6 ft. Indicas, they can be 3-4 foot without too much effort, but sativas...trees man, trees. If you go with any pure Sativa or close (90/10), aim for the roof. 7-9 feet.

As far as width, it depends on your pot size. And your pot size is dependent on how long you want the plant to be in there. 1 gallon of pot per month of growth is a good general rule.

For 4 plants with a scrog setup (Im just assuming its 4 months, veg and flowering total), maybe...10x10? That way you have room for the fans, timers, lights etc and the canopy has room to.. well... canopy.

For 9 plants on a straight up grow, at least double floor size IMO. You need room to walk amongst the ladies, too! That way you can make sure they all know how much you love and appreciate them as individuals.

farmergiles · 01-20-2011, 12:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cerebro

fg - can you tap a little about how you'd run a tray of keeper clones

A smallish space say 800mm wide x 400 deep x 600 high. More space is often helpful if available.
At least 100w of flouros, 200w would be better. T5's are probably the handiest format but any bluish flouros are fine. You might not need all the lights all the time, depending on how full the cab is.
Passive ventilation should fine with this wattage, you want a small desk fan in there though.
Instead of doors you could have a curtain at the front- no need for serious light tightness anyway.
In this space you can easily keep a mother plant(s) indefinitely, root lots of cuts in a propagator and pot up a few seedlings.
With a bit of scavenging the construction cost could be very low.

You have to get the mother plant(s) from somewhere else- maybe grow some plants outdoors, take cuts and keep the best one(s) so it would take a year for this plan to come into fruition maybe.

**mothernature** · 01-20-2011, 01:34 PM

I'm a little confused on what you're wanting to do.

Are you wanting an indoor grow? Or a mom and clones indoor, to be moved outdoors later? Or...???

Cerebro · 01-20-2011, 04:06 PM

I like growing outdoors, and will continue to put a few out. Starting them indoors is something I've always wanted to do. I grow in pots, self watering ones, or saucers at the least. I'd probably want to know what sex they are before putting them out, so how big would the plant get before i could sex a cutting? or maybe growing from clone would be ok. next season doesnt start until late in the year, so time isnt an issue.
One grow season a year is a bit of an ache, so i'm also after some pertetual harvest action.
A few standard tent dimensions
1.2m x 1.2m x 2m high
2m wide x 1m x 2m high
4' is 1.2m for any backwards nations out there

I'm going to go check youtube for grow tent scrogs
Thanks for the run through fg, i'll keep at you with questions buddy.
That two layer tent up there^ is about those dimensions, maybe $100

Cerebro · 01-20-2011, 04:18 PM

How small can mums be kept, and still be healthy?

farmergiles · 01-20-2011, 04:30 PM

Probably something like a cup sized pot. There's not really any limit but if they're too small they're easy to let perish by accident.
I keep mine in about a pint of soil so I can get away with leaving them for a few days at a time.

If you're flowering indoors you can keep making new moms and flowering the old ones as you go along.

How many cuts will you want at once?

Cerebro · 01-20-2011, 04:54 PM

as few as possible to keep one, or possibly two, of those tents going.
i want to keep things simple, one strain, maybe two at a time, repeat. variety will take place over time. so maybe two mums. your advise on number of clones (forgetting about outdoor) and how much size 2 strains x 2 phenos might take up. and how much space that much might take up by the time first crop finishes.
thanks to all the guys and girls

01-19-2011, 12:37 PM	#4 (permalink)
farmergiles Yahookan Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: wakka wakka wakka Posts: 9,439 Thanks: 2,803 Thanked 4,936 Times in 3,152 Posts	In your case I can't see any benefit apart from knowing the sex and the pheno. Seeds will most likely yield better if you plant them early enough as the longer veg period will make for a bigger plant. Unless you vegged your clones indoors but I guess that's not the best use of resources in this instance. Having a tray full of female keeper clones has got to be tempting though. Specially if you have sativa-ish plants (mh?) so they're gonna grow a fair bit before finish anyway... __________________ Cultivate a stoic calmness *Fuck the Monkeys*

01-19-2011, 05:34 PM	#9 (permalink)
SmokeaJoint Be High With Me Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Portlandia Posts: 4,707 Blog Entries: 11 Thanks: 1,219 Thanked 1,271 Times in 919 Posts	If you ask me, I say go for seed. I also say go a step further and experiment with genetics and making your own seed stock. As far as for yield, clones are faster and more reliable. No space wasted keeping unproductive males. Either from seed or clone though, you could still set up a perpetual harvest with just a little trial and error. That way, no worries about yield. You got a rotation of plants coming out of cure as some more go it, got plants going into flowering as new ones get vegged, etc. Of course, cant really do that kind of grow outdoors in most of the world. I'd definitely take advantage of the outdoor season while it lasts though! EDIT: To answer the tent material question, a flat, white surface reflects a good deal better that a silvered or mirrored surface. Hence why we tell rookies not to use tin foil to line a grow area. That, and hotspots. __________________ AMERICA: LAND OF THE FREE!* *Some restrictions may apply. Void where prohibited. SmokeaJoint's YouTube Channel

01-19-2011, 07:53 PM	#11 (permalink)
SmokeaJoint Be High With Me Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Portlandia Posts: 4,707 Blog Entries: 11 Thanks: 1,219 Thanked 1,271 Times in 919 Posts	I know I have seen covering similar to mylar, but black/white. Its called visqueen plastic, and they advertise it at 100% opacity on the outside, and 85% effective reflection off the white interior. I tried but couldn't find anything comparing reflectiveness of visqueen and mylar, and alot of the mylar statistics I found were conflicting. However, the 85% for visqueen is thrice verified from my search. (and Jorge Cervantes supposedly uses visqueen in his garden setups inside.) The thanks is for being Boss enough to support using seeds and strengthening the phenos. Too many folks cloning or killing males killed off the F1 phenotype for P. Haze and no other strain should go that route. __________________ AMERICA: LAND OF THE FREE!* *Some restrictions may apply. Void where prohibited. SmokeaJoint's YouTube Channel

01-19-2011, 08:16 PM	#14 (permalink)
SmokeaJoint Be High With Me Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Portlandia Posts: 4,707 Blog Entries: 11 Thanks: 1,219 Thanked 1,271 Times in 919 Posts	For height, and since their Sat doms and hybrids, between 5-6 ft. Indicas, they can be 3-4 foot without too much effort, but sativas...trees man, trees. If you go with any pure Sativa or close (90/10), aim for the roof. 7-9 feet. As far as width, it depends on your pot size. And your pot size is dependent on how long you want the plant to be in there. 1 gallon of pot per month of growth is a good general rule. For 4 plants with a scrog setup (Im just assuming its 4 months, veg and flowering total), maybe...10x10? That way you have room for the fans, timers, lights etc and the canopy has room to.. well... canopy. For 9 plants on a straight up grow, at least double floor size IMO. You need room to walk amongst the ladies, too! That way you can make sure they all know how much you love and appreciate them as individuals. __________________ AMERICA: LAND OF THE FREE!* *Some restrictions may apply. Void where prohibited. SmokeaJoint's YouTube Channel

01-20-2011, 04:30 PM	#19 (permalink)
farmergiles Yahookan Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: wakka wakka wakka Posts: 9,439 Thanks: 2,803 Thanked 4,936 Times in 3,152 Posts	Probably something like a cup sized pot. There's not really any limit but if they're too small they're easy to let perish by accident. I keep mine in about a pint of soil so I can get away with leaving them for a few days at a time. If you're flowering indoors you can keep making new moms and flowering the old ones as you go along. How many cuts will you want at once? __________________ Cultivate a stoic calmness *Fuck the Monkeys*

01-19-2011, 05:35 AM	#2 (permalink)
Jenna_Grows Decade Yahookan Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 995 Thanks: 335 Thanked 372 Times in 220 Posts	Its pretty nice to have moms and run clones.. much faster as lots of people don't veg their clones at all. I like beans and variety but miss having a mom collection of keepers. Growing a clone from the mamas, you can dial in your nutes according to the strain cuz you know the subtlety's of that strain backwards and forwards so that's a big plus. But.. I like beans! Beans Beans the magical fruit, the more you grow, the more you hoot? ha Research your tent if you buy one.. I've read some give off some sort of toxin that adversely effect the plants. Don't know enough about it to say much more... PS... full moon in Cancer Cerebro....watch for low flying owls!

01-19-2011, 02:17 PM	#5 (permalink)
mothernature ancientbongmaster Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Kentucky Posts: 3,731 Thanks: 8,772 Thanked 4,309 Times in 2,085 Posts	I think for indoor, clones would give the biggest overall yield, because you don't have to wait for the plant to mature, and could have more crops per year. Actually, even outside, clones would probably give the biggest overall yield as well, because they would have a jump start on seeds. Ideally, I would want both. Clones to keep my supply consistent, and seeds to play with and get more potential clones. Variety is nice. I always vegged at a 18/6 cycle. I kept moms and fresh cuttings under flouros at a 24/0 cycle until the big lights were available. I know nothing about grow tents. Very cool pic Pharm Girl. I just wanna....climb in and hang out.

01-20-2011, 01:34 PM	#16 (permalink)
mothernature ancientbongmaster Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Kentucky Posts: 3,731 Thanks: 8,772 Thanked 4,309 Times in 2,085 Posts	I'm a little confused on what you're wanting to do. Are you wanting an indoor grow? Or a mom and clones indoor, to be moved outdoors later? Or...???

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