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Old 01-24-2011, 11:26 AM   #21 (permalink)
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Are you talking about the tempered saftey lens? I wouldn't remove that. I can't imagine that making any significant difference.
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Old 01-24-2011, 06:54 PM   #22 (permalink)
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Yeah it's a tempered safety lens. I was wondering because it's not technically a grow light, but it is Metal Halide. Do lights designed for growing have glass in front of them? I'm serious I don't really know, do they?
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Old 01-24-2011, 07:33 PM   #23 (permalink)
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Poor babies!

Based upon the first picture, and the various growth factors described...I'd suggest to you that the primary reason your seedlings struggle so much is because they are dehydrating. While they may be moist after you water them - for some hours even - when they do dry out, the heat, coupled with a lack of moisture will compromise their health quickly.

The little trays/jiffy pot/cube things the seedlings are in at the moment are hopelessly inadequate/small. You would only get 'ok' results useing these things if they were kept moist all the time. But if they dry out, the seedlings will without question wither unto arid decay rapidly.

In this situation...firstly. ..forget all about peroxide. There is no 'need' for that, especially for young plants.

Transplant the seedlings into decent pots with some kind of potting mix(no need to be fussy). A decent pot, at this stage of the seedlings life, would be something like medium, to large milkshake cup...with a decent hole in the base for drainage.

Once you've done that, water the soil well...the excess should drain away. Then aim to water once per day, such that when they are drying out...there is still some moisture in the soil. If you do this, the seedlings will recover and show strong growth within a few days.

Was it that hard? Rly?
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Old 01-24-2011, 08:09 PM   #24 (permalink)
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When you re-pot, plan for a gallon of soil per month of plant growth to avoid root-lock. Too much re-potting stresses the plant, and we don't want that.
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Old 01-25-2011, 05:34 AM   #25 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by proggyjammer View Post
Yeah it's a tempered safety lens. I was wondering because it's not technically a grow light, but it is Metal Halide. Do lights designed for growing have glass in front of them? I'm serious I don't really know, do they?
Not usually unless the reflector has air cooling.

Some of the light is absorbed by the glass and turns to heat. If you remove the glass you have more usable light and less heat.

Do you have a link for the specs of your bulb?

If it's a 100w halide I'd advise a distance at least 8" from seedlings, maybe more.


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Originally Posted by Kishimbawa View Post
In this situation...firstly. ..forget all about peroxide. There is no 'need' for that, especially for young plants.

Transplant the seedlings into decent pots with some kind of potting mix(no need to be fussy). A decent pot, at this stage of the seedlings life, would be something like medium, to large milkshake cup...with a decent hole in the base for drainage.

Once you've done that, water the soil well...the excess should drain away. Then aim to water once per day, such that when they are drying out...there is still some moisture in the soil. If you do this, the seedlings will recover and show strong growth within a few days.
Good advice here ^.

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When you re-pot, plan for a gallon of soil per month of plant growth to avoid root-lock. Too much re-potting stresses the plant, and we don't want that.
Yes and no. Repotting does stress the plant a little but if the rootball is much smaller than the volume of soil in the new pot this tends to lead to much of the soil sitting stagnant- which tends to retard root growth. So a small plant in a huge pot probably won't do very well.
Best results are obtained potting up gradually when needed, maybe doubling the volume of soil each time then waiting for the roots to fill out the pot before the next re pot.


You might find a hand watered soil (or soil less mix) grow easier than ebb and flow first time round proggyjammer, soil is more forgiving.
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Old 01-25-2011, 05:48 AM   #26 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by proggyjammer View Post
Yeah it's a tempered safety lens. I was wondering because it's not technically a grow light, but it is Metal Halide. Do lights designed for growing have glass in front of them? I'm serious I don't really know, do they?
Every HID grow lite I've bought has had a tempered saftey lens. Now if there is a heat buildup like farmergiles was talking about, I haven't connected any growing problems to that. I have a 250 hps with a tempered glass I use for vegging and have excellent growth. I keep a fan going just under the lite blowing across the glass which at the same time makes my canopy flutter.
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Old 01-25-2011, 09:43 AM   #27 (permalink)
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Ok thanks all for the comments. An update: I started two more Northern Lights two days ago. Made sure not to over-water them at all, keeping them in the ideal moisture range, on a heating pad. What I actually did was to turn the lid of the tupperware at a 45 degree angle so it wasn't really on. This kept it moist but allowed it to dry out if it was a tad moist. Then I only had to even LOOK at it once per day, only sprayed water on it once. Last night they had not popped at tall, this morning they had both popped (sprouted out of the rooter)!! These look a lot better than the first two did, and I'll admit I did f*** with the first round of NLs quite a few times, trying to see if there was any germination happening. I know, noob mistake, I was too anxious, I know (slap me in the face, lol). But getting that under control, these are showing more promise, as I'm learning how to "baby" my "babies."

As far as soil is concerned. I'm kind of set on a hyrdroponic set up. I spent about 200 bucks on all the supplies I needed to get my ebb and flow set up - 3-part nutrients (GH Flora), water pump, air pump, air stone, hydro rocks, root plugs, net pots, hydro fill/drain tray, etc. I might consider switching to soil next time around but I am going to give it one more shot hydro since I think this time around I can nail it. I know to not use nutes until a week or two after it sprouts or so, and I'll try the light 8" away. I'll make sure not to over water at all but with the light about twice as far away it will dry out less so we will be great. Once I get the roots to show and hang out of the rooter I think I'll be set.

I will leave the tempered glass on there for now, if I'm inspired to change it later I will. For now I want to have a somewhat "controlled experiment" in that I want to see what changes are causing what to happen in my growth cycle. I might remove it down the line.

I'll have to get you specs on the bulb/fixture at another time. It's the Lumark Bandit fixture, with the Lumark LU/100 or something like that. I could be wrong about the bulb number, but the Lumark Bandit is correct. Bulb might not even be Lumark, lol.

Anyways with all of that said I have 1 questions that came up this morning.

These new ones popped this morning. They have been in 24 hours of dark for
the last 2 days. The cotyledons are still folded down and they are a slight orange, with no green yet. Am I wanting to put them under the MH at a distance of like 8-10 inches? Do I want to wait until the cotyledons turn green, or do they need light to turn green?
By the way they are looking incredibly more healthy than the last batch (because I didn't f*** with them and have to water em so damn much).

I'm going to vote put them under the light NOW. Move the light up 4-5" higher. Keep an eye on everything. Keep them at that good moisture range. These little girlies (we hope) are going to be fine I can feel it. But I would like some verification of if I should wait to put them under the light.

I have to say this. Watering/overwatering is such a relative thing. When someone tells you on the Internet to water em a little, not a lot, or things to that effect. While I appreciate the hell out of it, it still takes real experience to actually LEARN what that correct amount of moisture is. And I think I am learning it.

Thanks to stoneric, farmergiles, SmokeaJoint, Kishimbawa. Thanks to all of you for helping me out. I'll let you know how it goes. I will possibly post a pic of the new babies soon.

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Old 01-25-2011, 11:08 AM   #28 (permalink)
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Ok, I am putting them under the MH about 10" away doing some indirect lighting for 12-24 hours before I scoot them directly underneath.
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Old 01-25-2011, 11:20 AM   #29 (permalink)
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I'd leave the light on 24/0 during seedling stage. I go 16/8 around 2 weeks after sprout.
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Old 01-25-2011, 11:37 AM   #30 (permalink)
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Alright will do. xD
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Old 01-25-2011, 11:38 AM   #31 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by farmergiles View Post



Yes and no. Repotting does stress the plant a little but if the rootball is much smaller than the volume of soil in the new pot this tends to lead to much of the soil sitting stagnant- which tends to retard root growth. So a small plant in a huge pot probably won't do very well.
Best results are obtained potting up gradually when needed, maybe doubling the volume of soil each time then waiting for the roots to fill out the pot before the next re pot.
Really? I mean, I'm sure you're right but I have been putting sprouts in the final pot for a bit now. They always grow just fine, and the roots seem to fill the pot very well indeed.

I guess what I'm saying is, as long as the soil is a good mix with plenty of aeration, it should be fine, right?
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Old 01-25-2011, 01:34 PM   #32 (permalink)
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Quote:
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I guess what I'm saying is, as long as the soil is a good mix with plenty of aeration, it should be fine, right?
Indeed.

You might find they grow quicker if you pot up a little more incrementally at first though.
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Old 01-25-2011, 03:10 PM   #33 (permalink)
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Quote:
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I'd leave the light on 24/0 during seedling stage.
I would too- the transition to colder lights off temps and high humidity promotes mould, better to just leave the lights on imo.
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Old 01-25-2011, 03:27 PM   #34 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stoneric View Post
I'd leave the light on 24/0 during seedling stage. I go 16/8 around 2 weeks after sprout.
Quote:
Originally Posted by farmergiles View Post
I would too- the transition to colder lights off temps and high humidity promotes mould, better to just leave the lights on imo.
Thanks guys! Sounds like a good idea and some good reasons to back it up. I took my timer off and will be doing 24/0 for the first two weeks!

Pic is from my cell. These are the new babies. they were white this morning, and now they are working on turning green. They are a green yellow right now.

I have them in a tupperware with hydro rocks underneath, and around them, and when I water I can just spray the rocks a few times on each side. Works!
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Old 01-25-2011, 04:33 PM   #35 (permalink)
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Thanks guys! Sounds like a good idea and some good reasons to back it up. I took my timer off and will be doing 24/0 for the first two weeks!
Just wanted to add that I do 16/8 during veg because of convenience, not because I think it's the optimum lite schedule.
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Old 01-25-2011, 04:50 PM   #36 (permalink)
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Just wanted to add that I do 16/8 during veg because of convenience, not because I think it's the optimum lite schedule.
Ok. I plan to do 16/8 anyway because I've heard good things about both ways and at least 16/8 is more similar to nature.
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Old 01-25-2011, 07:35 PM   #37 (permalink)
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NL(#5) is one of my favorite indoor plant.

Quote:
plan for a gallon of soil per month
5 gallon is not out of the question. I buy those 4 gallon mushroom containers from several local Italian restraunts .

2 gallon to start, then add more soil for stability over the next several weeks.

I use sterile potting mix. (generic ) 4 (outdoors)(particula rly for non-fungus resistant strains.)...whew...s ince some are clones.

Last edited by Roach; 01-25-2011 at 07:42 PM.
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Old 01-25-2011, 09:18 PM   #38 (permalink)
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On Second thought...

I got to thinking again about what you said:

Quote:
Originally Posted by stoneric View Post
Just wanted to add that I do 16/8 during veg because of convenience, not because I think it's the optimum lite schedule.
So you're saying I might be better off doing 24/0 if I can up until flowering?

Might as well get some thoughts on this old debate
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Old 01-25-2011, 10:04 PM   #39 (permalink)
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If you do a 24 hr schedule, take into account you're gonna have to keep up with nutrients as they get bigger. I was surprised how much nutes it took to maintain 24 hrs a day of growth.
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Old 01-26-2011, 09:53 AM   #40 (permalink)
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Well it was pretty moist last night before bed, but when I woke up and checked them this morning the cubes were dry and they were drooping slightly. But they have a rich green color and the cotyledons are completely opened. I'm going to keep the cubes slightly moist and keep them at that constant moisture level, and they should perk right back up.

But I was thinking I might do 18/6 to help eliminate drying out overnight? Thoughts?
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