Lack of UV in indoor breeding rooms lead to substantial reductions in thc levels....

Sureshot · 07-07-2005, 07:20 AM

....over a small number of generations.

Discuss.

Sureshot · 07-07-2005, 07:52 AM

Most indoor growers in Europe at least grow solely under HPS HIDs which have little to no UV output. Most indoor growers used to use MH which does have useable UV output levels.

I personally combine both HPS and MH with specific UVa and UVb tubes when running an indo' breeding programme.

I'm not looking for advice, I know what I think about it, I was wondering whether you guys had any views.

07-07-2005, 09:48 AM

This has crossed my mind a few times...and why I always go back to wishing everyone could just grow outside under the bright, perfect sun. How fast do the genetics lose a noticible amount THC?

Dandaweedman · 07-07-2005, 04:09 PM

I run an HPS.
I am thinking the costs far out way the benefits.

Cost of the extra lighting, the electricity, the heat.
MH is hotter than HPS isn't it Sureshot?
The heat alone would be a big issue for me.

Judging by weed I have smoked from underneath each type of source...
are the benefits that great?

Sureshot · 07-07-2005, 04:16 PM

Devil, that si what we are here to find out

Dan, hello mang.

Let's forget single cycle.

Let's think, F4 - F6 (acclimatised).

To answer your question in both contexts:

Your context : No it's not

My context : (I think) Yes

I have a few interesting notes and papers but I'll save them for later if we don't mind.

kiWikkid · 07-07-2005, 10:59 PM

http://www.yahooka.com/forum/showthr...t=ultra+violet
specifically posts #6 & #7

Peace seeker · 07-07-2005, 11:21 PM

i didnt know that.

so basically it affects F4's and up right?

Dandaweedman · 07-08-2005, 02:08 PM

What I want to know is;
Does it have to have uv in flower and veg, or just flower? or can ya mix and match?

Doesn't cfl lighting contribute uv?

Dandaweedman · 07-09-2005, 07:47 AM

Here is an interesting read.
http://www.cannabisculture.com/articles/2159.html
http://www.cannabisculture.com/articles/4351.html

Might be worth thinking about.

Dandaweedman · 07-09-2005, 09:47 PM

Well, in that article it states tests were done.
Course they can say what they want can't they?
It's weed man LOL

sput·nik · 07-20-2005, 09:56 AM

always admired your mind kosh.. interesting thoughts from all.

almost everything i see is traveled, so i can never tell much of anything about it one way or another. the trichrome appearance vs. thc% vs. buzz quality issues are all mind-boggling, and you can meet so many folks who feel different ways.
most buyers of bags never give any of this much thought.. it's rather funny how much you begin to think about the stuff when you make that changeover and begin to look at it from the production angle.

smokethedoge · 12-01-2005, 12:20 PM

Hi all, I am a first time grower and I have done very well for my first time. I have 10 female plants all in their 2nd week of flowering under a 400 watt HPS hortilux bulb and I had a couple of questions for the 'pros' in Yahooka. I saw this thread and thought, you know, these are probably my favourite growers in all of Yahooka. Anyways, I started my plants with a MH 400 and I turned to HPS when they began 12/12. I was wondering if I should switch out the bulbs every week or so or if I should switch at all. More information on my grow that might apply here: Soil, topped (only due to my lack of experience), 5.5 quart pail for medium; soil is peat moss, worm castings, and miracle grow potting soil (been exposed to the elements for 1 year), and the plants are a mix between Holland's Hope and something else. The breed was grown outside last year and I have successfully moved it indoors. The plants themselves are approx. 2.5 to 3 feet tall and have anywhere from 10-18 budsites. The buds themselves have lots of white hairs and it is looking like I have about 45 days left of so until harvest. If any of you have the heart to answer my question I would greatly appreciate it.

P.S.-this is my first grow and I am planning on entering my crop into a mid-January contest to show all.

To all of the incredible growers out there...Thank you for all of your advice and patience for educating me for the last year+. And as always, take it easy.

smokethedoge · 12-01-2005, 12:24 PM

By the way, I can only use one bulb at a time because I have a HPS ballast, but a conversion MH hortilux bulb for veg.

BY THE WAY, NOT SURE IF THIS HELPS, BUT MY INITIAL SPECIMENS COULD NOT SURVIVE WITH THE HPS AT FIRST, THAT IS WHY THEY DIED AND I HAD TO START OVER AND GET THE MH CONVERSION.

My theory is that the HPS had no UV rays, which are crucial for beginning plants, so they invariably died. No nutes were used, though the plants that I have now have been fertilized twice to date with 1/2 ration Miracle Gro for Tomatoes.

Dandaweedman · 12-01-2005, 03:13 PM

I doubt that they couldn't survive with you HPS... and saying that, I have been in touch with GE.
They said that with the small amount of UV the MH of today put out, you could spend 15$ on a uv floro and get far more out of it.

MH are good for keeping the internode spacing tight tho... but so are CFLs.
I have started lots of babies with my HPS and never had a problem.

If you like, tell us what your plants did before they died. Were they yellow? was there burnt leaf edges?
May not help you with the last batch, but probably will help you with a future one.

smokethedoge · 12-02-2005, 01:33 AM

The last batch were very small, slightly yellowed on the tips, but nothing the plant couldn't live with. I think that the fact that they died and were so small was due to the fact that this particular mother that I got the seeds from was from an outdoor grow. If HPS has little to no UV rays, then this particular specimen would do poorly starting on HPS. My second grow, which I am on now is in its 2nd week of flowering, currently on 400 w HPS. These seeds, coming from the same mother as the last grow, thrived on MH during early veg.(though this switched to HPS at 12/12). For this reason I believe that MH is better for vegging, but not necessarily better for flowering. In my mind, this is logical, but I'm not sure though. My question for all of you is whether MH would be good to use at the same time as HPS, or moderating every other week, if at all-mind you I have one HPS lamp with a hps and conversion bulb. I understand that MH is from the 'blue' spectrum which is found when the cooler months of growth occur (distance from sun is greater); if MH mimics this light then it might produce more growth on a flowering female in the late stages of nug development. This is just a theory of mine, probably has no truth in it, but please comment below as to the real answer to my question.

Thnx for all of your help, and keep up the good work.

smokethedoge · 12-02-2005, 10:09 AM

Thanks for your input kosh; I will go solo on the HPS to finish the ladies off then. If this strain (Holland's Hope x local?) has a flowering period of 60-70 days, then I will be harvesting about mid-January, with a 'little suprise' on New Years. I have 10 plants, so I plan on taking about 1/2 of the topmost growth from the runt (which is very developed still and looking well). Hopefully this will encourage growth to lower nodes without killing the plant. Anyways, I will post some pics in a week or so....

Thanks for all of your help, and as always, take it easy.

07-07-2005, 07:20 AM	#1 (permalink)
Sureshot Can't-Get-Right Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Surrounded by the unimaginative Posts: 6,444 Thanks: 0 Thanked 19 Times in 16 Posts	Lack of UV in indoor breeding rooms lead to substantial reductions in thc levels.... ....over a small number of generations. Discuss. __________________ - The information in the above post is conjecture and the poster a figment of your imagination. - All images are computer generated or were taken in nations with forward thinking laws. o GrowFAQ o Add A Canna Grow Tip o Other Highs FAQ o Inquiring Minds FAQ o

07-07-2005, 07:52 AM	#2 (permalink)
Sureshot Can't-Get-Right Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Surrounded by the unimaginative Posts: 6,444 Thanks: 0 Thanked 19 Times in 16 Posts	Most indoor growers in Europe at least grow solely under HPS HIDs which have little to no UV output. Most indoor growers used to use MH which does have useable UV output levels. I personally combine both HPS and MH with specific UVa and UVb tubes when running an indo' breeding programme. I'm not looking for advice, I know what I think about it, I was wondering whether you guys had any views. __________________ - The information in the above post is conjecture and the poster a figment of your imagination. - All images are computer generated or were taken in nations with forward thinking laws. o GrowFAQ o Add A Canna Grow Tip o Other Highs FAQ o Inquiring Minds FAQ o

07-07-2005, 04:09 PM	#4 (permalink)
Dandaweedman Old School Join Date: May 2004 Location: At the Cabana Posts: 7,407 Thanks: 699 Thanked 760 Times in 613 Posts	I run an HPS. I am thinking the costs far out way the benefits. Cost of the extra lighting, the electricity, the heat. MH is hotter than HPS isn't it Sureshot? The heat alone would be a big issue for me. Judging by weed I have smoked from underneath each type of source... are the benefits that great? __________________ Hanging in the Cabana

07-07-2005, 04:16 PM	#5 (permalink)
Sureshot Can't-Get-Right Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Surrounded by the unimaginative Posts: 6,444 Thanks: 0 Thanked 19 Times in 16 Posts	Devil, that si what we are here to find out Dan, hello mang. Let's forget single cycle. Let's think, F4 - F6 (acclimatised). To answer your question in both contexts: Your context : No it's not My context : (I think) Yes I have a few interesting notes and papers but I'll save them for later if we don't mind. __________________ - The information in the above post is conjecture and the poster a figment of your imagination. - All images are computer generated or were taken in nations with forward thinking laws. o GrowFAQ o Add A Canna Grow Tip o Other Highs FAQ o Inquiring Minds FAQ o

07-07-2005, 10:59 PM	#6 (permalink)
kiWikkid Wikkid Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: land of the bong white cloud Posts: 2,267 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	http://www.yahooka.com/forum/showthr...t=ultra+violet specifically posts #6 & #7 __________________ __________________ THE BLUNCH BLACK OF BLOTRE BLAME

07-07-2005, 09:48 AM	#3 (permalink)
frendofthedevil Guest Posts: n/a	This has crossed my mind a few times...and why I always go back to wishing everyone could just grow outside under the bright, perfect sun. How fast do the genetics lose a noticible amount THC?

07-07-2005, 11:21 PM	#7 (permalink)
Peace seeker free the herb Join Date: Nov 2003 Posts: 6,844 Thanks: 773 Thanked 551 Times in 385 Posts	i didnt know that. so basically it affects F4's and up right?

07-08-2005, 02:08 PM	#8 (permalink)
Dandaweedman Old School Join Date: May 2004 Location: At the Cabana Posts: 7,407 Thanks: 699 Thanked 760 Times in 613 Posts	What I want to know is; Does it have to have uv in flower and veg, or just flower? or can ya mix and match? Doesn't cfl lighting contribute uv? __________________ Hanging in the Cabana

07-09-2005, 07:47 AM	#9 (permalink)
Dandaweedman Old School Join Date: May 2004 Location: At the Cabana Posts: 7,407 Thanks: 699 Thanked 760 Times in 613 Posts	Here is an interesting read. http://www.cannabisculture.com/articles/2159.html http://www.cannabisculture.com/articles/4351.html Might be worth thinking about. __________________ Hanging in the Cabana

07-09-2005, 09:47 PM	#10 (permalink)
Dandaweedman Old School Join Date: May 2004 Location: At the Cabana Posts: 7,407 Thanks: 699 Thanked 760 Times in 613 Posts	Well, in that article it states tests were done. Course they can say what they want can't they? It's weed man LOL __________________ Hanging in the Cabana

07-20-2005, 09:56 AM	#11 (permalink)
sput·nik denizen Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: the blackest lodge Posts: 3,659 Thanks: 142 Thanked 137 Times in 102 Posts	always admired your mind kosh.. interesting thoughts from all. almost everything i see is traveled, so i can never tell much of anything about it one way or another. the trichrome appearance vs. thc% vs. buzz quality issues are all mind-boggling, and you can meet so many folks who feel different ways. most buyers of bags never give any of this much thought.. it's rather funny how much you begin to think about the stuff when you make that changeover and begin to look at it from the production angle. __________________ and those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who could not hear the music . . .

12-01-2005, 12:20 PM	#12 (permalink)
smokethedoge YaHookan Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Tornado Alley Posts: 4 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Hi all, I am a first time grower and I have done very well for my first time. I have 10 female plants all in their 2nd week of flowering under a 400 watt HPS hortilux bulb and I had a couple of questions for the 'pros' in Yahooka. I saw this thread and thought, you know, these are probably my favourite growers in all of Yahooka. Anyways, I started my plants with a MH 400 and I turned to HPS when they began 12/12. I was wondering if I should switch out the bulbs every week or so or if I should switch at all. More information on my grow that might apply here: Soil, topped (only due to my lack of experience), 5.5 quart pail for medium; soil is peat moss, worm castings, and miracle grow potting soil (been exposed to the elements for 1 year), and the plants are a mix between Holland's Hope and something else. The breed was grown outside last year and I have successfully moved it indoors. The plants themselves are approx. 2.5 to 3 feet tall and have anywhere from 10-18 budsites. The buds themselves have lots of white hairs and it is looking like I have about 45 days left of so until harvest. If any of you have the heart to answer my question I would greatly appreciate it. P.S.-this is my first grow and I am planning on entering my crop into a mid-January contest to show all. To all of the incredible growers out there...Thank you for all of your advice and patience for educating me for the last year+. And as always, take it easy.

12-01-2005, 12:24 PM	#13 (permalink)
smokethedoge YaHookan Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Tornado Alley Posts: 4 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	By the way, I can only use one bulb at a time because I have a HPS ballast, but a conversion MH hortilux bulb for veg. BY THE WAY, NOT SURE IF THIS HELPS, BUT MY INITIAL SPECIMENS COULD NOT SURVIVE WITH THE HPS AT FIRST, THAT IS WHY THEY DIED AND I HAD TO START OVER AND GET THE MH CONVERSION. My theory is that the HPS had no UV rays, which are crucial for beginning plants, so they invariably died. No nutes were used, though the plants that I have now have been fertilized twice to date with 1/2 ration Miracle Gro for Tomatoes.

12-01-2005, 03:13 PM	#14 (permalink)
Dandaweedman Old School Join Date: May 2004 Location: At the Cabana Posts: 7,407 Thanks: 699 Thanked 760 Times in 613 Posts	I doubt that they couldn't survive with you HPS... and saying that, I have been in touch with GE. They said that with the small amount of UV the MH of today put out, you could spend 15$ on a uv floro and get far more out of it. MH are good for keeping the internode spacing tight tho... but so are CFLs. I have started lots of babies with my HPS and never had a problem. If you like, tell us what your plants did before they died. Were they yellow? was there burnt leaf edges? May not help you with the last batch, but probably will help you with a future one. __________________ Hanging in the Cabana

12-02-2005, 01:33 AM	#15 (permalink)
smokethedoge YaHookan Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Tornado Alley Posts: 4 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	The last batch were very small, slightly yellowed on the tips, but nothing the plant couldn't live with. I think that the fact that they died and were so small was due to the fact that this particular mother that I got the seeds from was from an outdoor grow. If HPS has little to no UV rays, then this particular specimen would do poorly starting on HPS. My second grow, which I am on now is in its 2nd week of flowering, currently on 400 w HPS. These seeds, coming from the same mother as the last grow, thrived on MH during early veg.(though this switched to HPS at 12/12). For this reason I believe that MH is better for vegging, but not necessarily better for flowering. In my mind, this is logical, but I'm not sure though. My question for all of you is whether MH would be good to use at the same time as HPS, or moderating every other week, if at all-mind you I have one HPS lamp with a hps and conversion bulb. I understand that MH is from the 'blue' spectrum which is found when the cooler months of growth occur (distance from sun is greater); if MH mimics this light then it might produce more growth on a flowering female in the late stages of nug development. This is just a theory of mine, probably has no truth in it, but please comment below as to the real answer to my question. Thnx for all of your help, and keep up the good work.

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12-02-2005, 10:09 AM	#16 (permalink)
smokethedoge YaHookan Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Tornado Alley Posts: 4 Thanks: 0 Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts	Thanks for your input kosh; I will go solo on the HPS to finish the ladies off then. If this strain (Holland's Hope x local?) has a flowering period of 60-70 days, then I will be harvesting about mid-January, with a 'little suprise' on New Years. I have 10 plants, so I plan on taking about 1/2 of the topmost growth from the runt (which is very developed still and looking well). Hopefully this will encourage growth to lower nodes without killing the plant. Anyways, I will post some pics in a week or so.... Thanks for all of your help, and as always, take it easy.

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