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Old 10-29-2007, 09:48 AM   #1 (permalink)
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Is there a topic we can ALL agree on?

.... ?


think about it for a sec.


....the one thing that comes to mind is that everyone wishes they could live long, healthy, meaningful lives.......

....but then, many people dont even want THAT!~


....basically, if you're looking for truth, im thinking, then lets see what is a precept that EVERYONE can agree on


how about- pleasure is preferable to pain? - ill bet some ppl would disagree with that as well....


when u consider how almost totally impossible it is for everyone to agree on anything, democracy and a system where different value judgements can clash cages seems to be a pretty good idea.... sure , if everyone COULD AGREE on what is best why would we need democracy? the smartest person would simply know what all the rest want.... but since I cant seem to find even a fundamental thing bout humans that they all would agree on, it seems like it makes much more sense for a system that is largely status quo but with the potential to be fluid...... essentially you change things only when a large enough marjoirty of people start to think that the change is good or necessary.....

that was a small digress into the political implications of this notion.... but the larger question remains.


in pursuit of something true, i ask - is there a topic , any topic, that we all can agree on ?

probably by virtue of the fact that we are all reading this thread - maybe that the internet is a good way to exchange ideas? im sure some would disagree with that too. but they likely wouldnt be on the internet .....

so....anything else that everyone can agree on ? if u have any ideas just put them down.... whatever comes to mind, there are no right naswers and most of what u think is probably not really universally accepted, but im interested to see what things u guys think have "broad" support....
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Old 10-29-2007, 09:54 AM   #2 (permalink)
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I am opposed to child molestation.

Does anybody disagree?
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Old 10-29-2007, 09:55 AM   #3 (permalink)
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NAMBLA does
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Old 10-29-2007, 10:09 AM   #4 (permalink)
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Can we all agree on that Exxon is run by heartless bastards who need to be lined up in front of a wall, but not before handing over their ATM PIN numbers...
BBC NEWS | Business | Exxon can appeal $2.5bn oil fine
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Old 10-29-2007, 10:47 AM   #5 (permalink)
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There is one VERY OBVIOUS thing we can agree on.
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Old 10-29-2007, 10:55 AM   #6 (permalink)
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yeah no kidding, if someone here does not agree with marijuana law reform, they can step off yo

but in a larger sense, all people everywhere? i dont think so.
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Old 10-29-2007, 10:56 AM   #7 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by LetsPlayYourWay View Post
Can we all agree on that Exxon is run by heartless bastards who need to be lined up in front of a wall, but not before handing over their ATM PIN numbers...
BBC NEWS | Business | Exxon can appeal $2.5bn oil fine
Exxon stakeholders would disagree with that.

J-wonder is right in this instance. I doubt there is any issue that everyone could agree one. This bring me back to a point that I frequently bring up on here. Socialist democracies are easier to run in small homogeneous countries where people generally have a similar culture, religion, and outlook on life. When you look at a country like the USA, and all of our different subcultures and outlooks on what life should be, it becomes infinitely more difficult to implement government systems that work for everyone.
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Old 10-29-2007, 10:58 AM   #8 (permalink)
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^ A government system that promotes avenues toward ensuring food, clothing, shelter, health, and jobs for its citizens wouldn't work for everyone?
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Old 10-29-2007, 10:59 AM   #9 (permalink)
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not if all it was was a vaccum cleaner sucking money out of some people and handing it to others....
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Old 10-29-2007, 11:02 AM   #10 (permalink)
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not if all it was was a vaccum cleaner sucking money out of some people and handing it to others....
see this is the think people like you don't get. The money those at the top make is a direct result of the labor of those on the bottom, so the money is going where it should have in the first place.
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Old 10-29-2007, 11:02 AM   #11 (permalink)
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whether or not thats true, it doesnt mean that the people having their money taken all the time would agree that it was for the best.....
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Old 10-29-2007, 11:06 AM   #12 (permalink)
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So the .5% of the population that controls most of the wealth would be better off not having healthy workers to fuel the economy that provides their wealth?

It's not a question of robbing the rich to feed the poor. No one's going to have to suck anything from anyone, it'll eventually be seen as the only way for our continued development as a global population and will be chosen freely. It's more lucrative to have an economy growing on its own instead of one subsidized (in such a way as to belie the real effects of an unhealthy workforce) by foreign interests. It's the only way, like it or not pal.
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Old 10-29-2007, 11:13 AM   #13 (permalink)
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.....are u rich?

im not saying i disagree with you.... but a lot of people would for the simple fact that they spent lifetimes working hard to get rich and dont see why poor people who didnt do that deserve their money..... whatever stats you could show them to the contrary....


perhaps this is a good metaphor for why democracy works....(ie that despite the objections im pointing out that they would have, there IS a graduated income tax which taxes the rich a lot more than the poor, thus providing the systemic benefits you are talking about).
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Old 10-29-2007, 11:16 AM   #14 (permalink)
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Seriously, I spent a good deal of time over the last 8 years doing well in school and working my ass off. I've seen other people I know do jack shit, barely graduate highschool and go to work some menial job that required no effort...and they still manage to barely keep that.

I dont think its very fair to tax my work for the benefit of that other person.
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Old 10-29-2007, 11:21 AM   #15 (permalink)
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.....are u rich?

im not saying i disagree with you.... but a lot of people would for the simple fact that they spent lifetimes working hard to get rich and dont see why poor people who didnt do that deserve their money..... whatever stats you could show them to the contrary....

Very few billionaires out there have done any actual work dude. They have built their fortunes through other people's labor. The pencil pusher sitting in a comfy leather chair in an office deserves less than the guy he is ordering around.
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Old 10-29-2007, 11:25 AM   #16 (permalink)
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Seriously, I spent a good deal of time over the last 8 years doing well in school and working my ass off. I've seen other people I know do jack shit, barely graduate highschool and go to work some menial job that required no effort...and they still manage to barely keep that.

I dont think its very fair to tax my work for the benefit of that other person.
The job you will get with your University diploma and the salary and profits you will make will most likely depend on those poor shmucks doing the menial jobs. You will not be doing the work, there for you do not deserve the money. The mere fact that you think you do makes you deserving of high taxation and getting your money distributed where it needs to go. Your ideology = greed. Have fun with that.
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Old 10-29-2007, 11:51 AM   #17 (permalink)
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In the words of Gordon Gekko, greed is good, greed works. It keeps an economy rolling, someone wants more than everyone else so he strives to get it, or he creates a way to get it, then when he has it someone else thinks 'Hey, I want some of that too' and the ball rolls on...
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Old 10-29-2007, 11:53 AM   #18 (permalink)
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In the words of Gordon Gekko, greed is good, greed works. It keeps an economy rolling, someone wants more than everyone else so he strives to get it, or he creates a way to get it, then when he has it someone else thinks 'Hey, I want some of that too' and the ball rolls on...
Wow...so basically greed for the sake of greed. Fuck the economy.
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Old 10-29-2007, 11:56 AM   #19 (permalink)
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Quote:
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In the words of Gordon Gekko, greed is good, greed works. It keeps an economy rolling, someone wants more than everyone else so he strives to get it, or he creates a way to get it, then when he has it someone else thinks 'Hey, I want some of that too' and the ball rolls on...
The pharmaceutical industry is a shining example of that being complete bullshit. What keeps an economy rolling is jobs and workers. That's it. When greed enters the picture workers are less able to work and jobs disappear.

I know you're big on illegal immigration, so I'll use this example: greed pushes companies to hire illegal workers. Hey, it works!
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Old 10-29-2007, 12:03 PM   #20 (permalink)
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Do you know how much R&D goes into the countless drugs that never make it to market? Thats part of the reason the ones that do make it cost so much.
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