Black

left wing propaganda or the truth?

if it is true, why isn't there a revolt happening right now?

how drunk are you right now?
drunk enough to not think about it? Good. That's the way I like it too.

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formality known as higherlearner84, la coka nostra and finding balance.

al-Mu'akhkhir

because people are too stupid to make a decision, they'd rather be sedentary and get fatter than do something to save mankind.

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José

this is nothing new to me.

trains ftw

Freight trains, on average, move one ton of material 423 miles on one gallon of gas.

Flamingnun

Peak oil exists whenever their is a shortage of funding. Sea oil is easily good for our lifetimes, and shale oil, which is basically unused, since we have sea oil, will last for god knows how long.

You know that was worked out around moving the actual mass of the train, rather than freight, right? Random facts about ecology ftl.

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Ego Tripping

Yeah, because you're doing so much.

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Flamingnun

And you're balls deep in alternative energy academia, right..?

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Ego Tripping

No, that's not my job. I do, however, perform acts that can directly effect how much oil is consumed and thus how much oil needs to be used. but I reduce the amount of oil I consume on a daily basis. Less heat, more clothes/blankets. Less trash, more compost/recycling. Less car, more biking/walking. Less supermarkets, more local/farmers markets. Less consuming, more conserving. Less oil used, less drilling needed, less pollution and more incentive to gradually make the shift towards green energy. Yeah, I'm one household, but I'd rather be part of a solution than just bitching about the problem.

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Ego Tripping

I do think there is a reality to peak oil, albeit, incredibly blown out of proportion to the reality of when it would occur. Although I believe peak oil is about the production of cheap oil, not so much the ready availability of oil at all. There's tons of it, but its cost vs. production that makes peak oil a reality.

Either way, I think its pretty god damn primitive to be drilling out this black goo to power our entire civilization when there's other sources all around us, in much easier access and in much more abundance, with low to zero emissions to boot.

Just a matter of time....and lately, I think we'll be embracing 'green energy' before peak oil becomes a danger.

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Flamingnun

It's fabricated. Obviously oil will run out, as will coal, since their finite resources.

It's just that once every decade someone plays the "zomg low oilz!!" card and triggers a price hike. Which has pretty much happened on cue, since the mid sixties.

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The Rev

As oil becomes more expensive to produce, the price will rise. As it does, alternatives to oil, which were too expensive before, now can compete with oil, and you will see more development in those areas. This is exactly what we saw with the last surge in gas prices, in a short term way. People stopped buying gas-guzzlers and Prius sales took off, for example. It has settled down somewhat, now that gas is back closer to where it was, but that will not last.

I'm not especially worried about peak oil.



The Rev

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Ego Tripping

I agree, dude, 100%. Definitely just a media tool for some quick profits. Either way, whether fabricated or not (same with climate change), I'm glad it's in front of people so we can move away from such an outdated form of energy, once and for all.

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Canuck Wisdom

Thing with renewable energy is that its a lot harder to own and sell if people, or communities can collect it on their own (once they buy the tech).

I mean, why give a contract to build a solar power plant when you could give a tax refund for everyone to install one of their own panels. Doesn't power everything for the house, but you could still have as many overall.

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-Knowitall A&P type-

Black

A Crude Awakening is a great documentary about this subject, you can find it on google.

it frightens me when we are mining the Athabasca oil sands, even when the cost per barrel is ridiculously high.

the fact that those resources (which are substantially less profitable) are already being tapped tells me that we have passed peak oil already.

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formality known as higherlearner84, la coka nostra and finding balance.

al-Mu'akhkhir

yeah well i'm not a pussy and that's better for the future of mankind than whatever you could do with your life.

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Ego Tripping

Suuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu reeeee you're not.

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Commonlands

When the consortium of energy companies and their subservient governments have arranged a way to make alternative energy as profitable as oil, we will be allowed access to alternative energy.

Grieves

They could be doing it out of greed, as opposed to necessity..Money now is better than prospective money in alot of eyes...

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tedkennedy

the funny thing is 3 months ago when gas prices were high the country was shitting itself.

now it seems people have gone back to not caring.

the fact is that scientists are the ones who predict (and are usually right beyond a reasonable doubt) about things like ecological collapse, global warming, oil etc... this is not a debate, these things are scientific fact. an example is the collapse of the cod fisheries in the 50's. a scientist predicted exactly when the first fisheries would collapse and no one listened. and then they collapsed and many people were devastated. yet the worlds fisheries are STILL being overfished and people arent listening. it is not profitable to listen to scientists. in the case of the fisheries, how can you tell a fisherman to stop fishing? of course the fisherman needs to feed his family so he keeps fishing. this is the core problem, the people doing the damage dont want to stop unless it is profitable for them to do so. and our economy is fundamentally based on OIL. oil is linked to everything from delivery of goods, to transportation of people to their jobs, to airfare to agriculture. EVERYTHING is based on oil. if the price of oil goes up 10 percent EVERYTHING becomes 10 percent more expensive. oil will run out. this is fact, you can look at the charts of how many barrels are being produced and we peaked a long time ago.

the science has been completely taken out of the issue, because its not what the facts are, its how you can spin the facts. there is no spokeman for the scientists and the average person is not smart enough to understand or read or care enough to read scientific journals so the world will just believe whatever fox news tells them.

america could have/should have been worrying about oil for the past 50 years but rebublicans fought setting fuel economy standards and continue to do so. the shit has begun to "hit the fan" as they say as global climate change, rising fuel prices, economic collapse are becoming more and more obvious and are no longer just "debates".

under bush presidency all the scientists were told to shut up or lose their jobs. maybe now this might change because obama is not a dumbass (i dont think) but neocons are still arrogant ignorant fuckheads who will not listen to science.

but anyway, my whole point of this rant is that people are shortsighted arrogant ignorant assholes. scientists have known and continue to try and prevent and solve the worlds problems but until people start listening to scientists nothing will improve and it will continue to be a dinner table debate and nothing will be done.

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matthew munari

dubtrice

its all money

if the people on top of the oil companies would be willing to take a chance and invest %1 of their profit into some kind of renewable energy, scientists would probably have more money than they knew what to do with and could come up with -something- simple, efficient and affordable.

but the rich get get richer and the rest of us get fucked

Ego Tripping

Obama science choices break from Bush - White House- msnbc.com

Obama's Science Team: A Change Of Climate? : NPR

Obama science picks hailed as signal of policy shift

While the articles are more about climate change, it's a move in a great direction for all of science...restoring it to the respect it deserves.

Shit's changin....

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