Waves

they want them demilitarized because otherwise they would spend all day fighting each other, its not some kind of grand conspiracy. these people hate the fuck out of each other.

the bottom line is a month ago there was no hope for a palastinian state. now there is. you can take the pessimistic view that this is not progress or you can take the optimistic view and see that a landmark decision has been made which might set the course for actual peace and stabilization in that region. not that this decision will directly do any good, but the decisions that come after it WILL. like you said, baby steps. thats how actual progress is made in real life, whether its one person taking baby steps to learn a new skill or an entire nation taking baby steps towards peace. you gotta take it one small step at a time.

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stoneric

quasi staehood.

badgoalie85

Isuppose it is a good step but let's not get ahead of ourselves here...the demands that israel have made are absolutely preposterous. it is certainly a good thing that israel has at least mentioned that they're open to the idea of a separate country but they're going to have to make a better effort than this

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Pursue happiness.

To each his own.

Legen...dary!

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Time is a matter of fact
when it's gone
it'll never come back

stoneric

Some people think this is just an opening offer from the israeli's, like the negotiating will now begin. Don't hold your breath.

ziplock

They've realized that if they hope to keep Israel a Jewish state they're going to need somewhere to put all the Arabs. Might as well call it Palestine and give them some sense of nationalism. Demilitarized state surrounded by a highly sophisticated military? Grandiose concentration camp.

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Insanity is the only sane reaction to an insane society.

Waves

you think that shit is realistically going to just keep going between these two groups forever?

you dont see it slowing down?

im not claiming that this is any landmark decision, but it may lead to greater things. i really dont know how long third world countries in general are going to be able to sustain these kinds of dictatorships and regimes.

its certainly not a step in the WRONG direction.

__________________
On this life that we call home
The years go fast and the days go so slow

dubtrice

I can see these people fighting to the death, at fault of the religious extremist nutcases running the area.

FourtySecondRip

im surprised there are any palistinians left as it is

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verklingen

the thing, to me, is that this kind of talk is coming from the old school of israeli nationalism. really, this is akin to yassar arafat conceding that "palestinians don't really need their own state, you know." in a region that steeped in tradition, you would think the old would have to die off before at all deviating away from senselessness, and that is why i see this as a greater step than it appears.

in other words: if seeds such as this can sprout even in decrepit soil, imagine how they will blossom in the fertile minds of the region's youth.

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“Be kind, for everyone you meet is fighting a hard battle.”

al-Mu'akhkhir

Uh, from what I understand this literally has been going on forever. Correct me if I'm wrong..

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zerodown

Here is rough translation of a song by ska-p on the subject.

6 million Jews annihilated in the most cruel way, an imperialist genocide by a fascist military, from history we have to learn, the victims have become the executioners, again colonizing Palestine territories, again tempting sense and reason. Dead people in the name of who? dead people in the name of Israel. dead people in the name of who? dead people in the name of Yahweh. What would you do if you were thrown out of your home without the right to complaint? stomping on your culture, submerged in the craziness of losing your dignity, Palestine is suffering in exile the opulence of Israel, by a high-handed government prepared for war in the name of you know who. Dead people in the name of who? dead people in the name of Israel. dead people in the name of who? dead people in the name of Yahweh. Stones against guns a new "intifada" in Cisjordania, Gaza or Jerusalem, oh who could have imagined that David could become Goliath? Don't confuse my posture, im atheist I don't believe in any god, I don't differentiate people by their race, their culture or their shitty religion, I just condemn suffering, injustice and the abuse of power, Palestine is being subjected to the most idiotic of wars, the opulence of Israel. Dead people in the name of who? dead people in the name of Israel. dead people in the name of who? dead people in the name of Yahweh. Stones against guns a new "intifada" in Cisjordania, Gaza or Jerusalem, oh who could have imagined that David could become Goliath?

stoneric

It was an insult. I can't look at it any other way.

Mr. Poatheed

From an article I read on the subject.

There are details that people have left out in this thread that make the deal the equivalent of a pile of shit. Not only does Israel become a fully Jewish state that has control of Palestinian air space. And not only does Palestine have to completely give up the right to defend their newly formed nation. Palestinian refugees whose homes were previously in Israeli land, most likely the homes of many previous generations of their families, must forfeit the right to ever return to their homes. Also, Netanyahu will not call for the end of Zionist colonization which would be able to expand in Palestine even though Palestinians would not be allowed to reside in Israel.

This comes down to a state of homeless people that have no right to defend themselves against an aggressive neighbor who has control of their airspace and constantly edges further into their territory.

That is no country.

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dubtrice

well put

stoneric

Plus they wouldn't be allowed to enter into treaties with whomever they please, Iran for one.

zerodown

So they'll stop killing them with guns and will just let them die of hunger and become a global statistic...

ziplock

I want to buy a car. I go to a banker and they tell me that yes, they'll give me a loan, but at 500% interest.

That is basically what I'm looking at with this offer of (false) statehood from Israel. It's more of a slap in the face as there's no way I could accept the terms of the banker/Israel without completely shooting myself in the foot. So in the end all I can do is refuse and hope that the interest rate comes down to a realistic level before I die of old age.

As per usual, the hope seems to reside in the change brought about by the modern perspectives of the youth. A youth that hopefully has not been raised and conditioned to simply repeat the actions of the generations before them. I don't really need anyone to mention a Palestinian statehood to know that the change will come from these youth.

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Insanity is the only sane reaction to an insane society.

dubtrice

wasnt there something about the jews in the bible??

verklingen

but that's just the thing man, it's not coming from the youth. netanyahu is about as far removed from israel's youth as you can get.

i'm not a palestinian and i don't live in israel, so how little this talk comes to bringing about actual change is irrelevant to me. what's important is that it indicates the direction in which things are headed. i feel like having a defeatist attitude about this instance is a lot like looking at the iranian elections and calling it evidence of unshakable suppression, when really it was a marker to stir resistance like never before. netanyahu's change of opinion on this point serves as a marker in the same way, pointing the way for things to come. when that way deviates from suppression toward peace and freedom, i'm much more impressed by the increase in peaceful attitudes than what remains of suppressive attitudes.

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“Be kind, for everyone you meet is fighting a hard battle.”